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Anaheim and Expansion - Why the Ducks are in great shape ‎(pt2)

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Old
06-21-2017, 10:51 AM
  #976
heusy_79
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
So it looks like us non ducks fans were right in that it will cost either Theodore/steel or a 1st +

I hate to say I told you so ducks fans but this was just way too logical.
Did you also miss the part where the Ducks are getting Vegas to select a bad contract? I don't think you were factoring that in when you suggested that price.

Stands to reason that the cost of getting Vegas to select a cheap depth player would have been a fair bit lower, likely closer to the prospect + pick range being suggested by Ducks fans.

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06-21-2017, 10:54 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
So it looks like us non ducks fans were right in that it will cost either Theodore/steel or a 1st +

I hate to say I told you so ducks fans but this was just way too logical.
Most Ducks fans were saying one of Welinski/Pettersson + 2017 2nd. That is about what Theodore would be worth today anyway. And I wouldn't be surprised if Welinski is the better NHL defenseman in 2-3 years (plus he plays the right side which is even more valuable). Obviously, Theodore is closer to NHL ready today but he would be a 3rd pairing guy on the Ducks and he's not a great fit for that. All things considered, it is reasonable for both sides. No one got "screwed".

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06-21-2017, 10:56 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
So it looks like us non ducks fans were right in that it will cost either Theodore/steel or a 1st +

I hate to say I told you so ducks fans but this was just way too logical.


That's some nice revising.

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06-21-2017, 10:58 AM
  #979
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I thought Ducks were losing Manson/Vatanen or a package that it would take to protect them, equal to their value on the open market?! Where are all the oilers fans?

Theo + a Cap dump is a great deal for both (if you have any idea what was going on).

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06-21-2017, 10:58 AM
  #980
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
Did you also miss the part where the Ducks are getting Vegas to select a bad contract? I don't think you were factoring that in when you suggested that price.

Stands to reason that the cost of getting Vegas to select a cheap depth player would have been a fair bit lower, likely closer to the prospect + pick range being suggested by Ducks fans.
If I remember correctly, yea we actually did in part 1. Some ducks fans were suggesting it would be stoner being selected and in return vegas gets a b prospect (no Theodore/steel/larsson) suggesting it'd be someone like kerdiles.

We in turn would say that's wishful thinking and it's either Theodore or 1st + the b prospect in which those ducks fans scoffed thinking we didn't know what we were talking about.

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06-21-2017, 11:00 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by nbducksfan19 View Post
i thought Ducks were losing manson or a package that it would take to protect him?! Where are all the oilers fans?

Theo + a Cap dump is a great deal for both (if you have any idea what was going on).
The Ducks blueline will surely never be able to overcome this sort of loss.


Last edited by Boot: 06-21-2017 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Accidentally a word
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06-21-2017, 11:00 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Most Ducks fans were saying one of Welinski/Pettersson + 2017 2nd. That is about what Theodore would be worth today anyway. And I wouldn't be surprised if Welinski is the better NHL defenseman in 2-3 years (plus he plays the right side which is even more valuable).
Just to be clear, plenty of us said that we'd have to pay more than that if they took Stoner. I also don't think that Pettersson or Welinski will overtake Theo. It's common for a young defenseman to struggle like he has. He's going to be a good 2/3 defenseman someday. If he can find a defensive game along the way, maybe even a little better.

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06-21-2017, 11:01 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
So it looks like us non ducks fans were right in that it will cost either Theodore/steel or a 1st +

I hate to say I told you so ducks fans but this was just way too logical.
Could you point me to these comments? All I remember reading from opposing fans was that there would be a bidding war and the Ducks would lose Manson/Vatanen to the highest bidder.

Also, we aren't just giving up Theo, we're also shedding Stoner's salary, which has significant negative value.

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06-21-2017, 11:01 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
Did you also miss the part where the Ducks are getting Vegas to select a bad contract? I don't think you were factoring that in when you suggested that price.

Stands to reason that the cost of getting Vegas to select a cheap depth player would have been a fair bit lower, likely closer to the prospect + pick range being suggested by Ducks fans.
The bad contract is 3 mil for 1 year. Theodore is a major price to pay. I would probably prefer to lose Vatanen straight out (injured anyways and 5 mil off the books for 3 years with D like Manson and Theodore getting pay raises in a year) I would say that the Ducks fared among the worst 2 or 3 teams in the ED. Certainly not the position of strength that many Ducks fans felt that GMBM had over GMGM.

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06-21-2017, 11:02 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
If I remember correctly, yea we actually did in part 1. Some ducks fans were suggesting it would be stoner being selected and in return vegas gets a b prospect (no Theodore/steel/larsson) suggesting it'd be someone like kerdiles.

We in turn would say that's wishful thinking and it's either Theodore or 1st + the b prospect in which those ducks fans scoffed thinking we didn't know what we were talking about.
Noooo it wasn't. Kerdiles was who they had them SELECTING in the draft. Not who they were trading for.

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06-21-2017, 11:03 AM
  #986
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Most Ducks fans were saying one of Welinski/Pettersson + 2017 2nd. That is about what Theodore would be worth today anyway. And I wouldn't be surprised if Welinski is the better NHL defenseman in 2-3 years (plus he plays the right side which is even more valuable). Obviously, Theodore is closer to NHL ready today but he would be a 3rd pairing guy on the Ducks and he's not a great fit for that. All things considered, it is reasonable for both sides. No one got "screwed".
I stopped paying attention once the thread became pt 2 so I don't know what may have been said lately. This is definitely a great trade for both teams and you're right no one is getting screwed. I never said anyone is though.

I'm just pointing out that just 2 days ago there were some fans telling us were didn't know left from right if we thought the ducks would give up a guy like Theodore since y'all could have just bought out bieksa and traded vatanen instead

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06-21-2017, 11:04 AM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
If I remember correctly, yea we actually did in part 1. Some ducks fans were suggesting it would be stoner being selected and in return vegas gets a b prospect (no Theodore/steel/larsson) suggesting it'd be someone like kerdiles.

We in turn would say that's wishful thinking and it's either Theodore or 1st + the b prospect in which those ducks fans scoffed thinking we didn't know what we were talking about.
The consensus from Ducks fans was that pieces like Pettersson, Welinski and picks could get them to select a cheap depth prospect such as Kerdiles and Megna, or that it would cost Theodore or Jones + to have them take Stoner.

We both know that you're guess had nothing to do with the Ducks also dumping Stoner's $3.25M. I can also dig up threads where fans told us it would cost Theodore or Montour just to dump Stoner to any team, let alone get Vegas to take him in the ED.

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06-21-2017, 11:04 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Just to be clear, plenty of us said that we'd have to pay more than that if they took Stoner. I also don't think that Pettersson or Welinski will overtake Theo. It's common for a young defenseman to struggle like he has. He's going to be a good 2/3 defenseman someday. If he can find a defensive game along the way, maybe even a little better.
True and the deal I posted on this thread and others was Welinski + 2017 2nd + Stoner. It does hurt to lose Theodore but he was never going to get top 4 playing time in Anaheim with Fowler resigning. Meanwhile, I think Welinski has a great chance to replace Bieksa on the right side next year.

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06-21-2017, 11:05 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
This thread reinforces my belief that people commenting on teams that they don't closely follow ultimately look quite foolish.
That's funny, I was thinking this thread confirms the opposite.

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06-21-2017, 11:05 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Noooo it wasn't. Kerdiles was who they had them SELECTING in the draft. Not who they were trading for.
Ahh perhaps I'm wrong then. I thought I remember there also being discussion of it being stoner + B prospect and a 2nd round pick to vegas

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06-21-2017, 11:08 AM
  #991
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Stoner + Theodore + First is a good haul for GMGM not to take Manson

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06-21-2017, 11:08 AM
  #992
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That's funny, I was thinking this thread confirms the opposite.
except that you had way too many people saying that the Ducks were going to lose one of Vatanen or Manson and that LV would renege on the deal put in place a week ago by BM and GM. Those people look foolish today.

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06-21-2017, 11:09 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by AustonMitchWilly View Post
Stoner + Theodore + First is a good haul for GMGM not to take Manson
1st?

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06-21-2017, 11:13 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
If I remember correctly, yea we actually did in part 1. Some ducks fans were suggesting it would be stoner being selected and in return vegas gets a b prospect (no Theodore/steel/larsson) suggesting it'd be someone like kerdiles.

We in turn would say that's wishful thinking and it's either Theodore or 1st + the b prospect in which those ducks fans scoffed thinking we didn't know what we were talking about.
Ya...you need to re-read the thread, you are making that up out of thing air if you think that was consensus. I'll give you cliff notes:

Other teams Fans (oilers): GM Mcphee said no deal were made before freeze. Bieksa wont waive or be bought out. If ducks want to keep Manson/Vatanen they need to give up a Massive haul, essentially the value Vegas could get for trading them on the open market. Think Theo + 2 1sts.


Ducks Fans: A deal was made with Vegas to buy extra time to deal vatanen. Mcphee agreed to work with them as Vats/Manson would never be a real option for them. The deal which would make sense would be a B propsect and a 2nd or something like Sami Vatanen and a cap dump or vegas sending something of value.

In the end Theo + a Cap dump is nearly exactly the value ducks fans expected....

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06-21-2017, 11:15 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by AustonMitchWilly View Post
Stoner + Theodore + First is a good haul for GMGM not to take Manson
... what first?

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06-21-2017, 11:15 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
Ahh perhaps I'm wrong then. I thought I remember there also being discussion of it being stoner + B prospect and a 2nd round pick to vegas
it could have been, but that would have been best case scenario.

Even so Stoner (cap dump) + Welinksi (b prospect) and a 2nd is very similar in value to Theo+Stoner.

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06-21-2017, 11:15 AM
  #997
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Originally Posted by Ched Brosky View Post
Ahh perhaps I'm wrong then. I thought I remember there also being discussion of it being stoner + B prospect and a 2nd round pick to vegas
I thought it would be Welinski/Petterssen and a 2nd on its own. If they took on Stoner it would take more. I thought it would be Jones anchoring that trade. Several other Duck fans put forth Theodore.

'B prospect' is such a weasel phrase around these parts. Seems like Vatanen, Lindholm(remember, HF seemed pretty certain that was a bad pick), Manson, Theodore, and Montour have all been designated that at some point.

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06-21-2017, 11:16 AM
  #998
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That's funny, I was thinking this thread confirms the opposite.
Yep because all year we were told the Ducks were backed into a corner and would have no choice but to lose one of their key contributing players (Silfverberg, Manson, Vatanen or Rakell) to Vegas for free. The original thread was created to show that the Ducks had avenues of making it so that didn't need to happen.

Now look, Vegas isn't selecting any of those players, in fact they are taking one of the Ducks worst contacts off their hands. Yes it is costing a player who can become a good Dman in the future, but also opens up many more interesting possibilities for this contending team in the present, and this so far removed from the reality folks were telling us to prepare for.

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06-21-2017, 11:17 AM
  #999
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Yep because all year we were told the Ducks were backed into a corner and would have no choice but to lose one of their key contributing players (Silfverberg, Manson, Vatanen or Rakell) to Vegas for free. The original thread was created to show that the Ducks had avenues of making it so that didn't need to happen.

Now look, Vegas isn't selecting any of those players, in fact they are taking one of the Ducks worst contacts off their hands. Yes it is costing a player who can become a good Dman in the future, but also opens up many more interesting possibilities for this contending team in the present, and this so far removed from the reality folks were telling us to prepare for.
We were also told it was impossible for us to resign Lindholm and Rakell. Oh and Lindholm was gonna get an offer sheet cause the Ducks could not afford to match...

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06-21-2017, 11:20 AM
  #1000
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Annnnd time's up on this thread. Goodnight.

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