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ATD 2014 Draft Thread II

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02-10-2014, 07:59 AM
  #976
Velociraptor
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With selection 243, the Belfast Giants select a Giant to play on the back-end. Derian Hatcher, D


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02-10-2014, 08:34 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Unfortunately, guys like Paul Thompson and Joe Malone seem to get dinged by Google archives because they had common names. Thompson is maybe the hardest individual in the draft to search for as a player because of his name, the fact that he also coached, had a brother in the hall of fame, and shares a name with a current member of the Penguins organization. It's like a perfect storm of crappy query results.
Hey , I had to google "Paul Thompson Hockey chicago" to find a picture

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02-10-2014, 08:36 AM
  #978
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I watched him throughout his career and thought him sometimes clutch but often less than three contemporaries undrafted (and all three sure to be ATD backups). He certainly let in soft goals regularly, but also amazed at times. I have spent decades comparing him to one volcanic undrafted! I had second thoughts when I saw him take St. Louis on his back and really become a workhorse goalie, playing some of the best games of his career with the Blues.

He's a bargain basement ATD starter in a smaller ATD as this, given, what? four teams don't have starters?

I see ONE or at most two (really one in my books, but two arguably) equivalent undrafteds. In a 28-team ATD there will be at least 56 goalies seeing significant regular season ice time. Guys like Fuhr should have quality backups given how often he was pulled. I loved him personally, but to compare him to Tretiak or Roy is laughable. Seriously, it was laughable!
Fuhr is a lower level starter in this - simply because we're picking the best of all time and someone has to be - but that doesn't mean he wasn't considered the best goaltender in the world for a while.

The X factor is how much stock you put into him being clutch which is an elusive thing to pin down at the best of times. The wins in his column, both in the NHL and internationally, seem to indicate there was something there.

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02-10-2014, 09:43 AM
  #979
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I seen fhur play about 100 games and the man was clutch. The Eras some players play in affect how we perceive their careers

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02-10-2014, 10:50 AM
  #980
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244. monster_bertuzzi - Vancouver Millionaires - ON THE CLOCK (5 hours, 10 minutes remaining)

245. Dwight - West Island Lions
246. papershoes - Kenora Thistles
247. Modo - Eishockeyclub München e.V.
248. JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers
249. Rob Scuderi - Pittsburgh AC
250. 87and71 - Pittsburgh Hornets
251. LeafLander - Toronto Maple Leafs

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02-10-2014, 10:50 AM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Unfortunately, guys like Paul Thompson and Joe Malone seem to get dinged by Google archives because they had common names. Thompson is maybe the hardest individual in the draft to search for as a player because of his name, the fact that he also coached, had a brother in the hall of fame, and shares a name with a current member of the Penguins organization. It's like a perfect storm of crappy query results.
That is part of the reason I picked Gillies over him. I just could not find any evidence of what made him special.

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02-10-2014, 10:51 AM
  #982
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That is part of the reason I picked Gillies over him. I just could not find any evidence of what made him special.
Regardless of anything else, Thompson was a much better scorer than Gilles. Gilles is obviously not drafted for his offense at this point. Not really comparable players, I don't think.

It really is strange that Thompson is not in the HHOF with his numbers and contributions to winning teams.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-10-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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02-10-2014, 10:58 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Fuhr is a lower level starter in this - simply because we're picking the best of all time and someone has to be - but that doesn't mean he wasn't considered the best goaltender in the world for a while.

The X factor is how much stock you put into him being clutch which is an elusive thing to pin down at the best of times. The wins in his column, both in the NHL and internationally, seem to indicate there was something there.
I think that one could argue that in a playoff-heavy format like this, that Fuhr is as valuable as some goaltenders who would normally rank above him on an "All-Time" list.

I'll address VI's post after more goalies get drafted.

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02-10-2014, 11:00 AM
  #984
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The more I read on Mickey MacKay the more I feel he is severely Undervalued.

Below shows he was called the greatest player both Lester Patrick and Eddie Oatman have ever seen. Also he missed 2 years of his prime due to a vicious Cross check breaking his jaw.


Lester Patrick saying MacKay was the greatest Center to ever play in the Coast League:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=bWYe...MacKay&f=false

MacKay was sidelined for almost 2 seasons of his prime due to Vicious Cross check to his jaw:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=jbih...MacKay&f=false


As a result of MacKay being out is had a profound impact on the 1919 PCHA Championships:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=vxPY...=0CC8Q6AEwATgU

In the 1918 Cup finals at Toronto, the critics rated him as a better player than his teammate Fred Taylor

A very clean player, he was a phenomenal stickhandler and was idolized in the west. Modest and unassuming he had no hesitation in setting up other players for goals that he might have scored himself. In many ways he was like Frank Nighbor.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=266

Mackay and Taylor displayed expert passing…Mickey MacKay was easily the best player on the ice:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=vF-1...=0CCoQ6AEwADge

Veteran pro puckster Eddie Oatman picks Mickey mackay as the greatest hockey player he's ever seen:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2007,3743444


Last edited by markrander87: 02-10-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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02-10-2014, 11:00 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that one could argue that in a playoff-heavy format like this, that Fuhr is as valuable as some goaltenders who would normally rank above him on an "All-Time" list.

I'll address VI's post after more goalies get drafted.
I think that was my argument when I had him and I got laughed at by some people haha.. well that and I think he fit my team at the time quite well. Clutch play is one of those things that you either think some players have or you don't.. really hard to quantify or convince people of.

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02-10-2014, 11:01 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It really is strange that Thompson is not in the HHOF with his numbers and contributions to winning teams.
Strange perhaps , but it wouldn't have been the only time the HHOF committee took a very questionable decision.

I also don't see the comparison between Gillies and Thompson.You don't draft these 2 for the same reasons.I think it would be quite a different combo if I had Gillies-Fredrickson instead of Thompson-Fredrickson to start my 2nd line.I'm quite convinced Thompson-Fredrickson makes for a better 2nd line duo though.

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02-10-2014, 11:04 AM
  #987
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Someone might want to get the next draft thread ready.

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02-10-2014, 11:05 AM
  #988
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Thompson had a great postseason as a Stanley Cup Champion
+
Thompson was once top-5 in assists (4th), the year he was 2nd team all-star at LW.
+
Thompson was once top-5 in goals (3rd), the year he was 1st team all-star at LW and a Stanley Cup champion.

That's 2.5 years of all-time awesomeness. Not bad, but NOT HHOF worthy.

He is otherwise absent from hockey history books I've read, and no more noteworthy than Bernie Morris (the 5-year PCHA wonder).

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02-10-2014, 11:20 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Thompson had a great postseason as a Stanley Cup Champion
+
Thompson was once top-5 in assists (4th), the year he was 2nd team all-star at LW.
+
Thompson was once top-5 in goals (3rd), the year he was 1st team all-star at LW and a Stanley Cup champion.

That's 2.5 years of all-time awesomeness. Not bad, but NOT HHOF worthy.

He is otherwise absent from hockey history books I've read, and no more noteworthy than Bernie Morris (the 5-year PCHA wonder).
Perhaps he is not HHOF worthy , I do not know because I rarely think about what are the criterias to get in the HHOF.I think it's a gigantic mess anyway , if it was up to me only the best 50 to 100 players would be in the HHOF.

Either way Thompson was a pretty consistant player from 32-33 to 37-38 , where he was the Blackhawks leading scorer every single year.He also rarely missed a game.

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02-10-2014, 11:36 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Regardless of anything else, Thompson was a much better scorer than Gilles. Gilles is obviously not drafted for his offense at this point. Not really comparable players, I don't think.

It really is strange that Thompson is not in the HHOF with his numbers and contributions to winning teams.
That's why it was important for me to find info on Thompson's intangibles. We know he was at least decent defensively. But the fact that his all-star voting was consistently in line with his scoring tells me he wasn't viewed as exceptionally good at anything. Jack of all trades type.

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02-10-2014, 11:59 AM
  #991
Velociraptor
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New thread is up and running, gentlemen.

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02-10-2014, 11:59 AM
  #992
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Im jacked up about this one, I've already reunited Clancy and Day - now Im completing the top 4 with another Maple Leaf from that early 30's dynasty - a physical terror on the blue line:

Hall of famer Red Horner.

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02-10-2014, 12:02 PM
  #993
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Im jacked up about this one, I've already reunited Clancy and Day - now Im completing the top 4 with another Maple Leaf from that early 30's dynasty - a physical terror on the blue line:

Hall of famer Red Horner.
Great pick, I was close to picking him instead of Gilbert.

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