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Jets-Sabres (Myers-Kane)

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Old
04-06-2014, 06:24 PM
  #51
ZeroPT
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Originally Posted by JetsHomer View Post
Bogosian and Myers are probably a wash. Ideally both are #2 guys. I wasn't comparing Scheifele to Risto, but Trouba to Risto and Scheifele to Girgensons. Morrissey and Zads its too soon to say, both have taken huge steps this past season.

Enstrom and Ehrhoff are probably close to a wash, with Enstrom having the better contract.

Those are certainly some prospects. The Jets also have a bunch of ok mid-round picks: Petan, Lowry, Lipon, Copp, Kosmachuk, Hellebuyck ect. Every team has prospects that look promising. Most of them will not be NHL players.
Ehrhoff's contract is miles better than Enstrom's. It's one of the best in the league.

I really don't get what you're trying to say with that last paragraph. You said that Buffalo would have to hit on mid-to-late round picks, and I gave you a list of prospects drafted in the mid rounds who look like good bets to amount to something in the NHL.

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04-06-2014, 06:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Bogosian is an extremely good skater, and has very good physical tools. And the Calder REALLY isn't relevant at all at this point. They are the same age, and they really aren't that far apart at this point. As I said, Myers produces better offensively, Bogosian better defensively. We have heard for years about Myers's Calder trophy. Truth is, at this point, he probably won't come close to what everyone thought his potential was. Yes, he can still explode offensively and defensively, but it doesn't look like it.

I can give you Zadorov. As I said, I'm very high on Morrissey, but he doesn't have the physical tools that Zadorov has. He did very well this year in the WHL (28 goals and 73 points in 59 games), and actually had a decent WJC on a bad Canada team.

I don't see how Ristolainen v Trouba is anywhere near close at this point. Ristolainen has the chance to become really good, I don't disagree with that. Trouba is really good. Offensively and defensively. At the NHL level. Neither of them are close to achieving their potential, but neither is anyone else on the list. And at this point, Ristolainen isn't close to Trouba.
Myers is playing better this year than in his Calder year. That's why I brought it up. As a gauge.

You're also really underrating Ristolainen here. If you're saying Risto's max potential is that of Trouba right now you couldn't be more wrong.

I also don't know why this discussion is even happening. It has nothing to do with the thread at all.

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04-06-2014, 06:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Myers and Bogosian is not a scratch. At all. Myers is far better offensively, he's a better skater, possesses better physical tools, has won a calder and has played at an even better level this year. It doesn't show on the stat sheet because he plays on an awful team and his stats are incredibly skewed.

Zadorov and Morrissey really isn't hard to say either. Zadorov was dominant in the WJC and has been absolutely amazing in London this year. Logging insane minutes and being far and away the best D-man on one of the best teams in the country. I like Morrissey, but he isn't on Zadorov's level.

As for Trouba v Risto. Trouba is 8 months older which translates to a near year of developmental advancements. Ristolainen has played against men for 4 years now and was also dominant in the WJC. He was one of the 3 leaders on that team and was far and away the best D on that team. Blows him out of the water, is hyperbole and extremely unfair as both have nowhere near achieved their potential.
No, that's not true at all. Brady Austin has been as good as Zadorov this year if not better at times.

I think Myers is better than Bogo but to say Bogo isn't a good skater, good offensively, or physical...is wrong (not directed at you).

Morissey is also more physical than Zadorov. Zadorov prefers to use his stick and positional play to take his man out. He can be physical and mean but it's not a standard for him. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times Zadorov has delivered a huge open ice hit to someone this season. Morissey on the other hand LOVES to hit.

If Zadorov decides he wants to be physical in the NHL i have no doubt he'll be better than Morissey in that regard but while he has the tools he doesn't use them that much right now

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04-06-2014, 07:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Aela View Post
No, that's not true at all. Brady Austin has been as good as Zadorov this year if not better at times.

I think Myers is better than Bogo but to say Bogo isn't a good skater, good offensively, or physical...is wrong (not directed at you).

Morissey is also more physical than Zadorov. Zadorov prefers to use his stick and positional play to take his man out. He can be physical and mean but it's not a standard for him. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times Zadorov has delivered a huge open ice hit to someone this season. Morissey on the other hand LOVES to hit.

If Zadorov decides he wants to be physical in the NHL i have no doubt he'll be better than Morissey in that regard but while he has the tools he doesn't use them that much right now
Think you were bang on with your previous post Bogosian is better defensively and Myers offensively but about the same overall. The numbers back that up as far as I can tell.

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04-06-2014, 07:31 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Think you were bang on with your previous post Bogosian is better defensively and Myers offensively but about the same overall. The numbers back that up as far as I can tell.
That was me.

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04-06-2014, 07:34 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Aela View Post
No, that's not true at all. Brady Austin has been as good as Zadorov this year if not better at times.

I think Myers is better than Bogo but to say Bogo isn't a good skater, good offensively, or physical...is wrong (not directed at you).

Morissey is also more physical than Zadorov. Zadorov prefers to use his stick and positional play to take his man out. He can be physical and mean but it's not a standard for him. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times Zadorov has delivered a huge open ice hit to someone this season. Morissey on the other hand LOVES to hit.

If Zadorov decides he wants to be physical in the NHL i have no doubt he'll be better than Morissey in that regard but while he has the tools he doesn't use them that much right now
In his brief (7 game) stint with Buffalo this season, Zadorov averaged north of 3.5 hits per game. I'd say that's pretty physical.

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04-06-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
In his brief (7 game) stint with Buffalo this season, Zadorov averaged north of 3.5 hits per game. I'd say that's pretty physical.
So you're basing whether he's physical or not based on a 7 game sample size?

I'm basing what I'm saying on a 100+ game sample size

He of course can be physical when he chooses to be, but that is not his style of play right now.

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04-06-2014, 07:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
That was me.
I hear we look quite alike

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04-06-2014, 08:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Aela View Post
No, that's not true at all. Brady Austin has been as good as Zadorov this year if not better at times.

I think Myers is better than Bogo but to say Bogo isn't a good skater, good offensively, or physical...is wrong (not directed at you).

Morissey is also more physical than Zadorov. Zadorov prefers to use his stick and positional play to take his man out. He can be physical and mean but it's not a standard for him. I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times Zadorov has delivered a huge open ice hit to someone this season. Morissey on the other hand LOVES to hit.

If Zadorov decides he wants to be physical in the NHL i have no doubt he'll be better than Morissey in that regard but while he has the tools he doesn't use them that much right now
Zadorov has only played 36 games and has been bouncing around from country to country.

If he were given the whole year to settle like Morrissey I think you'd see a huge change in his play

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04-06-2014, 10:16 PM
  #60
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Zadorov will have a better and more physical career...this thread is going nowhere its a pissing contest now. Buffalo's system was already ranked #1...move along nothing much left to see here....

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04-06-2014, 11:26 PM
  #61
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Zadorov will have a better and more physical career...this thread is going nowhere its a pissing contest now. Buffalo's system was already ranked #1...move along nothing much left to see here....

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04-06-2014, 11:33 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPT View Post
Zadorov has only played 36 games and has been bouncing around from country to country.

If he were given the whole year to settle like Morrissey I think you'd see a huge change in his play
He's played over 100 games for London, and I've seen him play in WJC as well. He might change his style, but the Hunters want all their players to play a physical, hard nosed game, and that's just not his play style. He's not a mean guy, lol.

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04-07-2014, 03:09 AM
  #63
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This right here translates to you not knowing a damn thing about Bogosian. Those are both HUGE pluses for him. He's an AMAZING skater and athlete. His problems are all hockey IQ related.

I can understand an argument for Myers over Bogosian, but this one isn't it.
It may be Bogosian's strong suit but Myers has him beat even there. The guy is massive and skates like Niedermayer. Both of them are hindered by brain farts. Very similar players in those respects.

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04-07-2014, 04:04 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JetsHomer View Post
Jets have so much RD depth they're playing a better RD than Myers as a forward right now. Zero interest in Myers.
lol

Defenseman, straight up?

Myers > Byfuglien

Not close at all.

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04-07-2014, 08:38 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JetsHomer View Post
Very debatable. Prospects are good and all, but when they're joining a barely NHL quality team their impact is going to be negligible. Buffalo has atrocious depth, it's going to be many years before they even sniff the playoffs.

They couldn't win with Miller, Vanek, Moulson and Pominville. They certainly aren't going to be winning with downgrades any day soon.

Buffalo is the worst hockey team the NHL has seen in a decade.
What? Bad depth?
Me thinks someone needs a dose of reality. Buffalo is 3 to 5 year's from playoff hockey and just about every hockey mind agrees they are doing it right AND have great DEPTH in the pipeline.

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04-07-2014, 09:20 AM
  #66
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Buffalo making the playoffs is just a matter of them developing their prospects, coaching them well, and surrounding them with the right vets.

Aka not being the Oilers.

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04-07-2014, 10:09 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
lol

Defenseman, straight up?

Myers > Byfuglien

Not close at all.
I disagree. Certainly it's pretty close but I would rather have the increased scoring Buff brings without losing much defense at all. I would also prefer the player that doesn't cough the puck up - Buff certainly has brain farts in positioning and in front of the net, but he very rarely coughs the puck up. AFAIK Myers turns it over quite a bit no?

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04-07-2014, 10:14 AM
  #68
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What? Bad depth?
Me thinks someone needs a dose of reality. Buffalo is 3 to 5 year's from playoff hockey and just about every hockey mind agrees they are doing it right AND have great DEPTH in the pipeline.
I was referring to the actual NHL team, which has maybe 6 NHL quality players (Hodgson, Ennis, Erhoff, Myers, Girgensons and Enroth )

Having a great prospect pool is cool and all, but that has been shown to have little correlation to success at the NHL level. Buffalo has so so many holes on their roster, not even Crosby would get them close to the playoffs. Unless they get lucky and find their Crosby/ Malkin It's going to be a long half decade in Buffalo. People said that Edmonton was 'doing it right' in 2009, but here we are 5 years later and they're still awful. Being awful and picking high to become good is not as easy as it sounds, there is a lot of luck involved.

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04-07-2014, 10:19 AM
  #69
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Don't trade a 24 year old 6'8 230lbs defenseman who has already played 318 games for a top 6 winger.

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04-07-2014, 10:22 AM
  #70
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To op: no thank you, jets keep kane we keep myers, everybody happy?

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04-07-2014, 10:26 AM
  #71
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That was me.
My bad you are correct.

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04-07-2014, 10:51 AM
  #72
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Buffalo declines. We're doing what we're doing so we can draft a player better than Kane.

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04-07-2014, 10:53 AM
  #73
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To op: no thank you, jets keep kane we keep myers, everybody happy?
I'm very happy.

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04-07-2014, 11:07 AM
  #74
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Fun fact: Both players are concluding their fifth years in the league. Kane has 198 points, Myers 138. That's an average of 12 more points per season for Kane.

Not as much as you'd think.

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04-07-2014, 12:58 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Aela View Post
I disagree. Certainly it's pretty close but I would rather have the increased scoring Buff brings without losing much defense at all. I would also prefer the player that doesn't cough the puck up - Buff certainly has brain farts in positioning and in front of the net, but he very rarely coughs the puck up. AFAIK Myers turns it over quite a bit no?
No. Not really.

Tyler Myers has 41 giveaways in 62 games this season (.661 giveaways per game).
Dustin Byfuglien has 72 in 78 games (.923 giveaways per game).

That giveaway margin is a sizable difference and one that makes your argument look pretty silly. I agree with the general premise that Byfuglien is a better player than Myers overall. I disagree with the suggestion that Myers and Buff are on par in their own end.

And for the record, last year, Buff had 50 in 43; Myers had 30 in 39.

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