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Better Dekes: Datsyuk vs. Kovalev

View Poll Results: Who has the better dekes?
Pavel Datsyuk 123 62.12%
Alexei Kovalev 75 37.88%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-03-2012, 05:02 AM
  #76
Saku11
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Nostalgia is clouding some people's judgement. It's close but I think it's definitely Datsyuk
No, Dats mania caused by hours of Youtube tribute videos is clouding people`s judgement. Nowadays if you dont vote for Pavel Datsyuk you get called out for having a "personal vendetta" or similar. Its barely allowed not to like Datsyuk.

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10-03-2012, 05:06 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
Didn't Kovalev make a whole freakin' movie or something with him doing pointless dekes? Datsyuk did a thing with Thompson because he was asked to. These things are not comparable.

And I am serious. Like I said, Kovalev has three major fan bases blindly voting for him because he played for their team while Datsyuk has one fan base. You only believe their is a bias for Datsyuk because you personally have a vendetta against him. Datsyuk is healthily winning this poll because he is the right answer to the poll question.
I dont know about Kovalev`s movies.Therefore they will not have an effect on my decision.And in quantity on these forums, three major fan bases<Dats love army .ainec.

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10-03-2012, 08:26 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
My problem isn't with your opinion, it's with the way you supported it. Datsyuk is better at deke-ing because his higher hockey IQ makes his game more effective in general isn't a well-reasoned answer to "who has the best dekes."

And you can't say something like "what Kovalev did wasn't anything we hadn't seen on various occasions from (three guys who had dissimilar games)" while pretending Datsyuk is unique. If anything, Datsyuk's "dangling" is far more similar to Gilbert Perrault than Kovalev's game was to, well, anyone's (which isn't necessarily a feather in Kovalev's cap, mind you. As I noted before, Kovalev frequently applied his skills in brainless, pointless fashion: guy on top of the tender...let's cut into coverage then try a soft, back-hand, no-look, 60 foot diagonal pass through heavy traffic to a point man who isn't in shooting position...even if it connected, that didn't make it the right play).
You're acting like answering a question of who has the better dekes is scientific in some way, when it's clear by this thread that people see what they want to see. You're beating around the proverbial bush and picking out fallacies in how I support my opinion without ever coming out and saying "I think Kovalev was more skilled/had better dekes". If this wasn't the case, I doubt you'd keep repeating that Kovalev applied his skills in pointless plays sometimes. Is that supposed to sway an opinion to his side? He played the game at a lower level mentally and still scored x amount of points so that means something?

I've already given you the bland "skill possession" argument and called it a wash between the two, but how one is able to stop at that without looking at how each player applied said skills is, uh, pointless in my opinion. I'm not claiming that Datsyuk doesn't do things other guys haven't-no one in any sport that's been around for 100+ years is entirely unique. I'm saying that he routinely attempts things and executes things few others have even thought to try. And again, you've already said that Datsyuk will have the better highlight reel because he's a smarter player.....I agree, but I think he just has the better skill set in general. I fail to see how mind doesn't correlate with hands, especially when comparing two guys that consistently beat many nhl'ers 1v1 or 1v2 like rented mules.

Kovalev has gotten all this recognition for his hands and his abilities to beat players but personally, I thought a guy like Jagr was just as good at it (mostly) while being a far superior player. Forsberg went through entire teams (sometimes in dumb, long winded fashion). The idea here is that I don't see many players of the past several years taking the type of approach to the game that Datsyuk does. It's safe to say his hands are ultra elite on both sides of the puck, something only a handful of players in history can claim. Either way, breaking down individual parts of the game, and a subjective one at that, just gets dumb. There's no "right" answer because nothing tangible supports dekeing alone.

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10-03-2012, 09:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
I dont know about Kovalev`s movies.Therefore they will not have an effect on my decision.And in quantity on these forums, three major fan bases<Dats love army .ainec.
Lol of course the bias for Datsyuk is greater because that only helps your opinion (notice I said opinion, not argument, because you don't actually have an argument) even though you have absolutely no logical argument for it

And if you are not familiar with his pointless dangling around pucks demonstrations, here they are:


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10-03-2012, 01:27 PM
  #80
billybudd
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Originally Posted by Blues88 View Post
You're acting like answering a question of who has the better dekes is scientific in some way, when it's clear by this thread that people see what they want to see. You're beating around the proverbial bush and picking out fallacies in how I support my opinion without ever coming out and saying "I think Kovalev was more skilled/had better dekes". If this wasn't the case, I doubt you'd keep repeating that Kovalev applied his skills in pointless plays sometimes. Is that supposed to sway an opinion to his side? He played the game at a lower level mentally and still scored x amount of points so that means something?

I've already given you the bland "skill possession" argument and called it a wash between the two, but how one is able to stop at that without looking at how each player applied said skills is, uh, pointless in my opinion. I'm not claiming that Datsyuk doesn't do things other guys haven't-no one in any sport that's been around for 100+ years is entirely unique. I'm saying that he routinely attempts things and executes things few others have even thought to try. And again, you've already said that Datsyuk will have the better highlight reel because he's a smarter player.....I agree, but I think he just has the better skill set in general. I fail to see how mind doesn't correlate with hands, especially when comparing two guys that consistently beat many nhl'ers 1v1 or 1v2 like rented mules.

Kovalev has gotten all this recognition for his hands and his abilities to beat players but personally, I thought a guy like Jagr was just as good at it (mostly) while being a far superior player. Forsberg went through entire teams (sometimes in dumb, long winded fashion). The idea here is that I don't see many players of the past several years taking the type of approach to the game that Datsyuk does. It's safe to say his hands are ultra elite on both sides of the puck, something only a handful of players in history can claim. Either way, breaking down individual parts of the game, and a subjective one at that, just gets dumb. There's no "right" answer because nothing tangible supports dekeing alone.
Of course there's no "right" answer. But that doesn't mean there's not a wrong one. Datsyuk's stick skills are better because he's a smart hockey player is a wrong answer because the evidence has nothing to do with the conclusion. Just like "kovalev's a better stickhandler because he used to backhand pucks over one net from behind it, the entire length of the ice, and try to score in the other net during practice (which is something he used to do)" would also be a wrong answer.

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10-03-2012, 02:05 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
No, Dats mania caused by hours of Youtube tribute videos is clouding people`s judgement. Nowadays if you dont vote for Pavel Datsyuk you get called out for having a "personal vendetta" or similar. Its barely allowed not to like Datsyuk.
Saku11, You will argue against anything that has to do with the Red Wings. Such a biased anti-Datsyuk and anti-Red Wing poster. Man it gets annoying seeing you spew your negativity on the Red Wings in every Red Wing thread that gets posted on here... and you've been trolling these DRW threads for far too long.

Im starting to think you secretly sleep in a Pavel Datsyuk tshirt every night.

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Old
10-03-2012, 03:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
Saku11, You will argue against anything that has to do with the Red Wings. Such a biased anti-Datsyuk and anti-Red Wing poster. Man it gets annoying seeing you spew your negativity on the Red Wings in every Red Wing thread that gets posted on here... and you've been trolling these DRW threads for far too long.

Im starting to think you secretly sleep in a Pavel Datsyuk tshirt every night.
BS. start a new thread and replace Kovalev with Matt Stajan and see me vote Datsyuk.

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10-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Of course there's no "right" answer. But that doesn't mean there's not a wrong one. Datsyuk's stick skills are better because he's a smart hockey player is a wrong answer because the evidence has nothing to do with the conclusion. Just like "kovalev's a better stickhandler because he used to backhand pucks over one net from behind it, the entire length of the ice, and try to score in the other net during practice (which is something he used to do)" would also be a wrong answer.
Good god man, nitpicking the same point over and over out of my multiple diatribes that I've already addressed is getting us nowhere.

If you're having trouble articulating your own point, I'd imagine its something along the lines of "Kovalev has better dekes". Great.

So we disagree and the world hasn't ended!

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:10 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm sorry, but to me this seems like a no-brainer, Datsyuk AINEC.

Can any of you who voted Kovalev please post some video evidence? I mean he's got pretty good hands, but I've never seen anything from him comparable to Datsyuk.


(at the 0:44 mark)


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02-19-2013, 03:15 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I'm sorry, but to me this seems like a no-brainer, Datsyuk AINEC.

Can any of you who voted Kovalev please post some video evidence? I mean he's got pretty good hands, but I've never seen anything from him comparable to Datsyuk.
also


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Old
02-19-2013, 03:20 AM
  #86
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Its a cold hard tie from a guy whoo watches tonnes of Russian hockey.

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02-19-2013, 03:42 AM
  #87
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02-28-2013, 09:36 PM
  #88
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Being a fan of both the wings and the habs, and a fan of both Datsyuk and Kovalev, I feel like I can give my opinion.

Kovalev had a better puck protection with his size, and quicker hands. The puck was always on his stick.

In terms of pure dekes tho, Datsyuk got a bigger repertoire, that's for sure and seems to use them more effectively.

In my book, Kovy on the PP was the best. His trademark goals when he slowed everything down, moved toward the blue line before quickly dangling and skating back towards the net to unleash the most accurate wristers I ever saw. You knew that he was going to either score, of hit the post. I rarely seen a goalie stop that shot. Players didn't know how to stop him because of he had an insane shot to complete his stickhandling skills.

But the rest of the time, Datsyuk, his dangling style is not the same as Kovy's, but he is more effective and is the most complete player.

I think the real comparison for Kovalev is now Kane, as they really seem to have the same type of stickhandling, quick hands and a deadly snipe.
Datsyuk on the other hand is completely unique and always beautiful to watch, as he pulls out insane moves and dekes every games it seems.


Last edited by Firestar27: 02-28-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 10:20 PM
  #89
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Datsyuk and it's not close. Kovalev is lazy and doesn't pull off any moves.

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02-28-2013, 11:02 PM
  #90
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Went with Datsyuk, because he can deke at full speed. Kovalev's most effective when slowing things down. Both have ridiculous mitts.

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Old
02-28-2013, 11:52 PM
  #91
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Dats, AiNEC. He's best in the world in stickhandling.
Don't know how it's possible to argue with it.

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03-01-2013, 12:00 AM
  #92
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Kovalev absolutely DOES NOT have the game in, game out repertoire of being able to embarrass people on a NIGHTLY basis like Datsyuk. It doesn't matter if he's a little faster when stickhandling through a collection of pucks.

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03-01-2013, 12:09 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
In game I don't even think it's that close. One made people look silly on a nightly basis, the other didn't.

If you want to compare their hands it's one thing, but it terms of effectively using those hands to deke opposing players in the NHL, that's a different comparison. Kovalev has never been as effective as Datsyuk when it comes to consistently deking - defencemen or goalies. Very few have. And Kovalev is not one of them.
This is something that could only have been written by someone who started watching this player when he was old. Kovalev would make fools out of two or three players on the ice on every shift (and, often as not, do something moronic on the same shift).

I once saw this guy dance 3 players out of their jocks in the offensive zone a total of 5 times on the same shift then skate back to the neutral zone for no apparent reason, leaving his teammates offside.

The guy was a one-man trap breaker. He didn't break the trap with speed; he faked the individual pieces out of their socks to get through the neutral zone.

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03-01-2013, 12:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dimi19 View Post
also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQya...ailpage#t=230s

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:03 AM
  #95
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Datsyuk is better at dangling and deking because of his superior hockey sense, pure hands might have to give the slight edge to Kovalev though.

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