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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Potential dynasties that never happened

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Old
03-02-2017, 11:08 PM
  #76
TheMule93
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I find it absurd that the wings essentially had a potential cup team from 1995-2009

The cup window transcended two different cores (sans Lidstrom)

I won't ever complain about winning 4 cups, but it could have been completely surreal if things ended up going slightly differently

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03-03-2017, 01:36 AM
  #77
The Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMule93 View Post
I find it absurd that the wings essentially had a potential cup team from 1995-2009

The cup window transcended two different cores (sans Lidstrom)

I won't ever complain about winning 4 cups, but it could have been completely surreal if things ended up going slightly differently
What's your feeling about their 4 -- do you think they coulda/shoulda won more?

Here's their win-% and division-finishes from 1991-92 through 2011-12:

1992 .613% - 1st
1993 .613% - 2nd
1994 .595% - 1st
1995 .729% - 1st
1996 .799% - 1st
1997 .573% - 2nd
1998 .628% - 2nd
1999 .567% - 1st
2000 .629% - 2nd
2001 .677% - 1st
2002 .707% - 1st
2003 .671% - 1st
2004 .665% - 1st
2006 .756% - 1st
2007 .689% - 1st
2008 .701% - 1st
2009 .683% - 1st
2010 .622% - 2nd
2011 .634% - 1st
2012 .622% - 3rd

I mean, that is a crazy-long period of hanging around the top. Basically, for 20 straight seasons they were near the top. Only 3 times in 20 seasons (21 years) did they drop below a .613 win-%, and then only to, at worst, .567%! And in one of those lower-seasons, they won the Cup!!

4 is fantastic for that period, but do Wings fan in general feel they should have won more?

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Old
03-03-2017, 02:56 AM
  #78
10Ducky10
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If the Habs had won it in 67, they would have won it 65, 66, 67, 68, 69 and tied for the most Stanley Cups in a row.

In the 15 years starting in 65, the Habs won the cup 10 times.

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Old
03-03-2017, 05:32 AM
  #79
SovietWings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
What's your feeling about their 4 -- do you think they coulda/shoulda won more?

Here's their win-% and division-finishes from 1991-92 through 2011-12:

1992 .613% - 1st
1993 .613% - 2nd
1994 .595% - 1st
1995 .729% - 1st
1996 .799% - 1st
1997 .573% - 2nd
1998 .628% - 2nd
1999 .567% - 1st
2000 .629% - 2nd
2001 .677% - 1st
2002 .707% - 1st
2003 .671% - 1st
2004 .665% - 1st
2006 .756% - 1st
2007 .689% - 1st
2008 .701% - 1st
2009 .683% - 1st
2010 .622% - 2nd
2011 .634% - 1st
2012 .622% - 3rd

I mean, that is a crazy-long period of hanging around the top. Basically, for 20 straight seasons they were near the top. Only 3 times in 20 seasons (21 years) did they drop below a .613 win-%, and then only to, at worst, .567%! And in one of those lower-seasons, they won the Cup!!

4 is fantastic for that period, but do Wings fan in general feel they should have won more?
Not sure if they should have won more, but they definitely could.
It would be nice (for me) to see them winning in 1995 or 2009 when they were very close, or in 1999/00 (damn Colorado).
On the other hand, even as DRW fan, I wasn't much happy to see them winning the Cup in 2002. The team was too much loaded with free agents and from my point of view, this team was one of the main argument to implement the salary cap.

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Old
03-03-2017, 08:19 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Weissy Baby View Post
It's possible with Shanahan and another piece they Rangers could make a run in 1997, but I don't think they were better than Detroit (minus Shanahan) that year. In 2012 you could make a case if Brodeur plays average the Rangers should beat New Jersey and should beat LA, but I'm not sold they would beat the Kings. I completely disagree about 2015, the Ducks would have destroyed the Rangers in 5 games, 6 max. Both Chicago and the Ducks were clearly the best in the NHL that year and the Western Conference Final was essentially the championship kind of like how it was in 2014 for the Kings/ Blackhawks.
In both regular season meetings the Rangers destroyed the Ducks, they couldn't handle the Rangers speed and transition game. I think 1 more forward in 2012 they beat the Kings. I'm not sure they see Detroit in 97 as good as that team was, Shanahan was a huge catalyst, without him there who knows.

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03-03-2017, 10:49 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
It was Tampa in 2015 and the Rangers in 2014. But yes, I don't think either east team wins. There has been a dominant performance post-lockout for the West. You've got Carolina, Pittsburgh, Boston and then Pittsburgh winning the Cup. That's it. The rest is out west. Anaheim, Detroit, Chicago, LA, Chicago, LA, Chicago. Outside of Pittsburgh in the East, you might want to put an extra dollar on someone out west (Chicago, San Jose) winning it this year.
For 2015 I believe it was implied that if the Rangers got by Tampa and if Anaheim beat Chicago who would win that hypothetical 2015 Stanley Cup Final was the discussion, but thanks for backing up my point.

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Originally Posted by CharlestownChiefsESC View Post
In both regular season meetings the Rangers destroyed the Ducks, they couldn't handle the Rangers speed and transition game. I think 1 more forward in 2012 they beat the Kings. I'm not sure they see Detroit in 97 as good as that team was, Shanahan was a huge catalyst, without him there who knows.
Regular season record doesn't mean that much when deciding who would win in a playoff series, especially a sample size as small as two games. It should also be mentioned that Bryzgalov was in net for Anaheim the first game who was signed midseason, finished with a record of 1-4-1 and with a 0.847 SV% which astoundingly bad compared to Gibson and Andersen (tied with 0.914). The 7-2 loss in the second game isn't really defensible though but there are many series where a team dominated play in the regular season but failed to get the same results in the playoffs. I would still take LA in 2012 and Detroit in 1997 even with those editions, but it would be closer.

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Old
03-03-2017, 10:56 PM
  #82
HisIceness
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No joke but I seriously thought Carolina could have been one. Hear me out for just a second.

-Eric Staal and Cam Ward were both 21 and 22, were exceptionally good for their age and seemed like they were future superstars in the making, especially Eric.

-Several of the vets on the team who didn't depart that off-season either had career years or had their best season in a long time.

-The new rules from the previous season benefitted Carolina big time.

-He was traded September of 2006 but I remember when first drafted I thought Jack Johnson was going to be a phenomenal talent here, and I also thought the opportunity of playing with Aaron Ward and Glen Wesley would benefit him greatly.

I thought maybe they might cool off in 2007, maybe a second round exit, but had laid a foundation to give it another go in perhaps the 2007-08 season. I probably should have known better but looking at it at that time, it just seemed like they were only getting started.

Yeah

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Old
03-03-2017, 11:33 PM
  #83
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Devils fall into that DET/DAL/COL/NJD axis, but they won in '00 and '03. They were up 3-2 and headed home for game 6 in 2001. I wonder if the team would be thought of differently if they had pulled it out, making them back-to-back champs and winners of 3 in 4 years.

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Old
03-05-2017, 05:55 PM
  #84
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The 2012 OKC Thunder with Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

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Old
03-05-2017, 07:48 PM
  #85
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One of the craziest things to consider about the potential Wings dynasty is that they might have themselves been responsible for the single biggest reason it didn't happen: that absolute shelling of Roy that led to him being traded to Colorado.

How many regular season games have been more consequential than that one? Try to imagine the future if that game never takes place (or finishes with some mundane score).

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Old
03-06-2017, 12:58 AM
  #86
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissy Baby View Post
For 2015 I believe it was implied that if the Rangers got by Tampa and if Anaheim beat Chicago who would win that hypothetical 2015 Stanley Cup Final was the discussion, but thanks for backing up my point.
Oh I see. In that case, Anaheim. They almost beat Chicago. Had a poor Game 7, but prior to that they had so many opportunities to make the series more difficult for the Hawks. They lost overtime games that would have made the series 2-0 and 3-1 had they won. Not to mention they had plenty of chances in these overtime games. Corey Crawford deserves a lot of credit for getting the Hawks out of that run. Getting his glove on that Corey Perry point blank shot in the slot in Game 2 in overtime for example. Wow. But yeah, Anaheim for me. Getzlaf and Perry were truly on fire that spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HisIceness View Post
No joke but I seriously thought Carolina could have been one. Hear me out for just a second.

-Eric Staal and Cam Ward were both 21 and 22, were exceptionally good for their age and seemed like they were future superstars in the making, especially Eric.

-Several of the vets on the team who didn't depart that off-season either had career years or had their best season in a long time.

-The new rules from the previous season benefitted Carolina big time.

-He was traded September of 2006 but I remember when first drafted I thought Jack Johnson was going to be a phenomenal talent here, and I also thought the opportunity of playing with Aaron Ward and Glen Wesley would benefit him greatly.

I thought maybe they might cool off in 2007, maybe a second round exit, but had laid a foundation to give it another go in perhaps the 2007-08 season. I probably should have known better but looking at it at that time, it just seemed like they were only getting started.

Yeah
I am sure you aren't the only one - even outside of Carolina - who thought this way. Everybody analyzes the Cup champs and no one thinks that they are just going to bury themselves in a hole and die over the next decade. I didn't think that would happen, but I have to admit I never thought they'd be Cup winners again.

The reason I say this is because I was anticipating Ottawa to burst out and finally win. I think a lot of us were. I knew Pittsburgh was going to start gaining ground with their young team and the next season is when they started to. Detroit was always in the mix and even in 2006 I really liked Anaheim's roster. I just thought of the Canes as a team that sort of struck lightning in a bottle. Wasn't terribly impressed with them that year. That defense was not what you expect from a Cup champ. I figured Staal and Ward would go onto HHOF careers (wrong on both counts), but I never figured they'd win again, which is a rare thing for me to say about a Cup champion. I always think they are in the mix the following year(s).

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Old
03-06-2017, 09:26 AM
  #87
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks and Pucks View Post
Are the recent Blackhawks considered a dynasty? Because if not, Alec Martinez literally prevented the Blackhawks from winning three Cups in a role when he scored in Game 7 OT in the 2014 WCF.
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Rangers probably/possibly beat the Blackhawks that year. All Rangers fans were rooting to face the Hawks because we didn't match up as well against the Kings physicality. And we were borne out on that part at least.

I actually always think of those great Blues teams in the early 00s. They were done in by their goaltending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee View Post
Both LA and CHI were superior to NYR that year. It would have been a closer series between CHI/NYR than LA/NYR but result would have more then likely remained the same. Regardless, the best team won that year. LA was better than either.
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I can't envision a scenario where the Rangers beat the Hawks in 2014. I think that the real Stanley Cup final was Chicago/LA. In all fairness, the Hawks of this era have never lost a Cup final and I don't think they would have started with this one considering they could repeat.

I'm obviously biased, but I also agree that the Hawks likely would've beat the Rangers in the Finals had they made it past LA. I think the better question here is, if the Hawks win in 2014 do they have the same drive and enough left in the tank to win in 2015?

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Old
03-07-2017, 08:16 PM
  #88
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I'm obviously biased, but I also agree that the Hawks likely would've beat the Rangers in the Finals had they made it past LA. I think the better question here is, if the Hawks win in 2014 do they have the same drive and enough left in the tank to win in 2015?
That's hard to say, because they did face some adversity in 2015. They lost Roszival to an ankle injury in the 2nd round. It isn't as if they didn't make short work of the Wild, but it was Anaheim's series that was an all out war. Going to 7 games and needing to win on the road thanks to a couple of nerve wracking overtime games they won earlier in the series. Keith really did a huge job picking up the slack. I never thought he left the ice. He averaged 31:07 per game that postseason which is insane even when you factor in the overtimes.

I know that Toews has been quoted as saying that when you win the Cup it makes you hungry for more because you don't want to give it up, you want it to be yours. Either way you slice it, these Hawks teams have never lost in the Cup final. They seemed pretty driven in 2015 after the 2014 heartbreak but is it really hard to get motivated to win a third in a row? I don't think so. I think they'd be just fine. Keep in mind, they were down to Tampa 2-1 in the Cup final as well and stormed back. The Hawks had two really big gut checks in back to back series, so I wouldn't have bet against them.

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