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Sir Sheamus Weber (Man Mountain PhD edition)

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Old
03-26-2017, 10:29 PM
  #301
Adam Michaels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
On the topic of Weber being a HOFer, I think he'll be there. Lots of high Norris finishes, strong reputations (deserved or not) for playing good D, cannon for a shot. I'd be surprised if he's not a HOFer at the end of his career.
Don't forget international success. It's the Hockey Hall of Fame not the NHL Hall of Fame. So more than just NHL success come into play.

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03-27-2017, 12:12 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
Don't forget international success. It's the Hockey Hall of Fame not the NHL Hall of Fame. So more than just NHL success come into play.
anyone with some objectivity would tell you it's probably the only real success he had as a pro athlete.

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03-27-2017, 02:07 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
anyone with some objectivity would tell you it's probably the only real success he had as a pro athlete.
Objectivity requires that you define success in order to determine whether Weber has been successful. Then it's a simple question of applying that definition to the facts and we then have a bulletproof standard for classying the success of pro athletes.

Example:

Winning a tournament = successful.
Not winning tournament = unsuccessful.

Winning Norris trophy = successful.
Runner up to Norris = unsuccessful.

Two crystal clear groups of athletes will then be produced that nobody can dispute. All future statements on Weber can be coded and converted into symbols that require no ability to read or interpret ambiguity. Bots can carry on the task of classifying the symbols. In this future objective reality, we would know at all times with absolute certainty whether Weber is in the successful or unsuccessful group. We might even consider creating an app that can alert us if his status changes.

I look forward to you presenting an objective definition of success. I'm eager to resolve the matter.

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03-27-2017, 04:34 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
Objectivity requires that you define success in order to determine whether Weber has been successful. Then it's a simple question of applying that definition to the facts and we then have a bulletproof standard for classying the success of pro athletes.

Example:

Winning a tournament = successful.
Not winning tournament = unsuccessful.

Winning Norris trophy = successful.
Runner up to Norris = unsuccessful.

Two crystal clear groups of athletes will then be produced that nobody can dispute. All future statements on Weber can be coded and converted into symbols that require no ability to read or interpret ambiguity. Bots can carry on the task of classifying the symbols. In this future objective reality, we would know at all times with absolute certainty whether Weber is in the successful or unsuccessful group. We might even consider creating an app that can alert us if his status changes.

I look forward to you presenting an objective definition of success. I'm eager to resolve the matter.
well, you're up to a great start...

maybe you can tell if you think being close = succesful

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03-27-2017, 04:36 AM
  #305
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Weber is the Glue for this Dcore. Leadership, Defensive IQ, Physicality and smart use of it, can make plays/pass, and of course the monster point shot.

He plays within his limits and will also help bring along the many D prospects (Sergachev, Juulsen, Mete and others) who will certainly be insulated behind the likes of Weber. Heck, Sergachev could pair with Weber in a few years. It will be interesting to see how Weber ages, because if he is generally at the level he is playing at this season then I'm fine with it.

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03-27-2017, 08:47 AM
  #306
DangerDave
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
anyone with some objectivity would tell you it's probably the only real success he had as a pro athlete.
By this logic guys like Dionne, Oates, Housley and Sundin were unsuccessful. I don't buy it. You can be successful without being the very best or winning any awards.

Brad Park is the best comparable to Weber actually. Hall of Famer, never won any awards. 5 times Norris runner up


Last edited by DangerDave: 03-27-2017 at 08:57 AM.
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03-27-2017, 05:44 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
By this logic guys like Dionne, Oates, Housley and Sundin were unsuccessful. I don't buy it. You can be successful without being the very best or winning any awards.

Brad Park is the best comparable to Weber actually. Hall of Famer, never won any awards. 5 times Norris runner up
the guy I replyed to originally was talking about international success, as in winning a medal/trophy.

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03-27-2017, 07:41 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Habssince89 View Post
Weber is the Glue for this Dcore. Leadership, Defensive IQ, Physicality and smart use of it, can make plays/pass, and of course the monster point shot.

He plays within his limits and will also help bring along the many D prospects (Sergachev, Juulsen, Mete and others) who will certainly be insulated behind the likes of Weber. Heck, Sergachev could pair with Weber in a few years. It will be interesting to see how Weber ages, because if he is generally at the level he is playing at this season then I'm fine with it.

Pretty much. I've always had an appreciation for his game and even if he's not nearly as mean as he used to be, he's such a stabilizing and dominant presence on D that he makes up for it. Looking forward to his playoffs, I feel he's been unfairly targetted for one game where everyone was terrible, and his partner Josi as much as him.

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03-27-2017, 09:50 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, you're up to a great start...

maybe you can tell if you think being close = succesful
Yes, I do.

The 2006 Edmonton Oilers lost in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. They definitely had a successful playoff despite not being as successful as they could have been.

Only a fool would argue that.

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03-27-2017, 11:31 PM
  #310
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I think it's a valid definition even if it is very limited. You win a medal or trophy and you've succeeded. In which case we can dispense with the term "successful" altogether. We would just say, objectively speaking, Weber has only won a medal at the Olympics and World Cup. And we would all nod. Because it is a fact. And then someone else would say, Andrei Markov had never won a medal or cup. And we would all nod. And so on and so forth. A very interesting exchange of factual statements would be had. I look forward to learning more about who has won medals and who hasn't. Very revealing.

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Yesterday, 07:13 AM
  #311
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He's going to have to play close to 30min/game in playoffs, hopefully he can get a few games of rest. He got better as Julien brought his icetime down to 22-24. Him and Markov getting a couple games off could do older guys good.

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Yesterday, 03:14 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
By this logic guys like Dionne, Oates, Housley and Sundin were unsuccessful. I don't buy it. You can be successful without being the very best or winning any awards.

Brad Park is the best comparable to Weber actually. Hall of Famer, never won any awards. 5 times Norris runner up
When it comes to playing style, Weber reminds me more of Ryan Suter these days, plus the big shot.

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Today, 02:59 PM
  #313
dackelljuneaubulis02
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The guy's pretty awesome. The few who are clinging to him being a borderline bum are just ridiculous.

The intangibles and chemistry are hard to measure. 17 goals, +19 (plus minus stats can be taken with a grain of salt but I don't think they're useless. He has the best plus/minus on the team while getting the hardest assignments) 40+ points. He has his limitations but my god he's a stud.

Let's see how he does in the playoffs. I'd argue PK being better but I'm not sure he's better for the team. Despite our bad stretch (which could've been a protest of sorts to oust a certain coach by some players) we've played some really good hockey this year. Weber was supposed to kill our transition game. Emelin looked good at the beginning but my god when has he ever looked like a legit top pairing guy? You can't ignore that Weber formed a great top pairing on a top team in the league for a sizeable amount of the year with freaking Emelin.

There's no need to trash one to prop up the other. They're both top athletes. I think many of Weber's assets aren't as in your face as PK's but just as valuable. There's a lot of finer points to defending that aren't flagrantly apparent to the layman. Now this would be problematic if Weber didn't produce 40-50 plus points and 15-20 plus goals a year but he does.

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Today, 03:57 PM
  #314
DangerDave
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
When it comes to playing style, Weber reminds me more of Ryan Suter these days, plus the big shot.
I didn't mean in terms of style but yes I agree the he plays similarly to Suter. I was simply alluding to Weber, like Park, not having any rewards. Despite that, Park is regarded as one of the most outstanding Dmen to ever play. To not have him in the HOF would be a disgrace. I'm not saying Weber should be guaranteed in the HOF but that him not winning any awards should not dismiss him.

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