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ATD 2017 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
02-20-2017, 02:10 PM
  #276
jarek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If that's the case I'd prefer him over Hay.

I'd go with Kennedy and Colville to take faceoffs on the first two units, and a good winger for each. One with the following:

- quotes supporting PK ability for pre-1953 players (often hard to find, I'd personally also settle for them being an outstanding defensive forward, but all the outstanding ones from before 1953 are taken)
- at least 12 SHP for 1950-1975 players
- career PK usage of 30% or higher if career post-expansion players.
I think the stuff on Colville came out in the centers project. This seems to be the bulk of it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100 Rangers Greats
Like his predecessor [Lester] Patrick, [Coach Frank]Boucher thrived on hockey innovations, one of which was “offensive penalty killing”, which was specifically promoted by Neil Colville. When the Rangers were shorthanded, they would inevitably throw defenseman Art Coulter on the ice with the “Bread Line”. Instead of ragging the puck and wasting time, the foursome would attack vigorously, as though a penalty hadn't even been called.

“One season”, Boucher recalled, “we out-scored our opponents almost two to one when we were shorthanded. Credit for that had to go to Neil Colville”. It was “offensive penalty killing” that also led the Rangers to become the first team to popularize a “box defense” when they where shorthanded
The above doesn't mention Colville actually doing any penalty killing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times - 11/24/1937
The Maroons were given an opening soon after the start of the second when Pratt was banished for tripping R, but Neil and Mac Colville checked the wingmen to a standstill while he was off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times - 12/12/1937
Kelly drilled a close-in drive off (goalie) pads in the opening minute and the Leafs went to work with four forwards when Coulter drew a penalty for holding, but...and Neil Colville made a great success of ragging the puck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Gazette - Nov 6, 1939
The Rangers not only kept Detroit at bay during the five minutes but threatened several times themselves with the brilliant Neil Colville doing most of the puck work.

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Old
02-20-2017, 02:14 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Sprague Cleghorn View Post
How do you check for SHP from 1950-1975? I can't find any sources from 1950-1967.
seventies posted a link to that spreadsheet. Not sure where it is. Maybe he'll post it again if you ask nicely.

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02-20-2017, 02:19 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
seventies posted a link to that spreadsheet. Not sure where it is. Maybe he'll post it again if you ask nicely.
just one page ago...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%201953-87.xls

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02-20-2017, 03:40 PM
  #279
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Clancy-Svedberg or Suter-Svedberg on my first PP?
Any more on this? Clancy-Suter was also suggested.

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02-20-2017, 03:50 PM
  #280
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Any more on this? Clancy-Suter was also suggested.
If:

- there was a way to quantify Svedverg's offensive value in a way that could be compared to others, and

- You didn't already have an elite PP #1 and an above average PP #2,

then I might advocate for Svedberg on an ATD 1st PP unit.

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02-20-2017, 03:58 PM
  #281
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Check my daily picks thoughts in the draft thread iceman for my opinion on your 1st PP unit.

With my top 9 being completed over the weekend I was wondering if I should keep my top 9 like this:

Kharlamov-Boucher-Neely
Propp-Mackay-Hossa
Metz-Tkazuk-Lemieux

Or do I start my 4th line around claude Lemieux? Also Propp seems like a good do it all guy but does he fix my team's physicality concerns?

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Old
02-21-2017, 01:15 AM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
With my top 9 being completed over the weekend I was wondering if I should keep my top 9 like this:

Kharlamov-Boucher-Neely
Propp-Mackay-Hossa
Metz-Tkazuk-Lemieux

Or do I start my 4th line around claude Lemieux?
I'd leave it the way it is unless an offensively skilled RW falls to you for the third line. Then Claude be an above-average fourth liner.

Quote:
Also Propp seems like a good do it all guy but does he fix my team's physicality concerns?
I myself consider Propp more a glue guy, but between him, Neely and Lemieux, I would not question your team's toughness, no.

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02-21-2017, 01:40 AM
  #283
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I feel as though I have a ton of options for the configuration of my forward lines. Tommy Smith's unexpected availability only further complicated matters for me, and as such I could use some second opinions.

Right now I'm toying with this setup:

Roy Conacher - Bobby Clarke - Yvan Cournoyer: I look at this as a trio that really flows through the bookends; from what I've been reading, Conacher loved to take off with his other winger for odd-man breaks. That would suit Clarke just fine, as his vision and passing skills would allow him to spring his speedy partners with regularity. Add in his elite two-way play- I foresee Clarke hanging back at center ice to take care of business, almost like rovers used to do- and there could be something here.

Tommy Smith - Vladimir Petrov - Charlie Conacher: At first glance this line might seem a bit weird, but upon closer inspection it's modeled after the famed KPM unit of old. Smith is the brilliant individualist, Conacher the power winger willing to charge the net. Petrov is Petrov, and as his bio states, he excelled at making two disparate wingers work together in harmony. Like my first line, Petrov would also serve as the defensive conscious- a facet of the game he actually learned from Clarke.

Adam Graves - Ivan Hlinka - Joe Mullen: I might yet change this up, but I think this is the typical ATD 3rd line- bit of grit, bit of skill, bit of two-way play. Even with Mullen's short stature it's not an especially small unit either thanks to Graves (6'0 210) and Hlinka (6'2 220). When combined with their work ethic, I can easily see teams being worn down by this line's dogged forecheck.

X - Rod Brind'Amour - X: Saved the most controversial for last. Being that so many teams are assembling three strong scoring lines, I'm contemplating deploying Rod the Bod as the centerpiece of an elite shutdown trio that can play heavier minutes than most fourth units. His two Selkes speaks for themselves, and his offense would be so tilted in this role that I could give him two pure defensive specialists (re: one-trick ponies) as wingers and still reap the benefits. Shero was known for being among the first to roll four lines with regularity, so this could work.

Thoughts?

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Old
02-21-2017, 03:13 AM
  #284
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Having just completed my defense:

Jan Suchy - Valeri Vasiliev
Ken Reardon - Eric Desjardins
Leo Reise Jr. - Brent Burns

Question regarding the special teams:
PP1 -> Suchy & Burns
PP2 -> Desjardins & Vasiliev
PK1 -> Vasiliev & Reardon
PK2 -> Reise & Desjardins

Does that seem like OK fits?

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02-21-2017, 04:09 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Having just completed my defense:

Jan Suchy - Valeri Vasiliev
Ken Reardon - Eric Desjardins
Leo Reise Jr. - Brent Burns

Question regarding the special teams:
PP1 -> Suchy & Burns
PP2 -> Desjardins & Vasiliev
PK1 -> Vasiliev & Reardon
PK2 -> Reise & Desjardins

Does that seem like OK fits?
As far as pairing goes it looks good. Not 100% sure what the rest of your 1st PP looks like but is Suchy/Burns 1st PP material from the blueline? Maybe put Desjardin there?

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Old
02-21-2017, 04:13 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
As far as pairing goes it looks good. Not 100% sure what the rest of your 1st PP looks like but is Suchy/Burns 1st PP material from the blueline? Maybe put Desjardin there?
Espo, Bucyk & either Cashman or Tonelli. Or maybe I'll mix it up a bit (right now I want 2nd PP of Nedo, Martinec & Novy).

I think Suchy is absolutely 1st PP material (and good one at that). Burns should be good enough as blueline bombardment provider.

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Old
02-21-2017, 04:35 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Espo, Bucyk & either Cashman or Tonelli. Or maybe I'll mix it up a bit (right now I want 2nd PP of Nedo, Martinec & Novy).

I think Suchy is absolutely 1st PP material (and good one at that). Burns should be good enough as blueline bombardment provider.
Have you considered Reardon as an option for one of your PP units? He has better D point finishes than Desjardins (2, 2, 3, 5, 9), and would probably be better than Vasiliev. In the Euro project, it was remarked that Vasiliev had a terrible shot from the point as his favorite target looked to have been the opponent's shinpads. His scoring numbers in the WC and Soviet league are pretty unspectacular with a PPG of less than 0.5. You might not want to quote me on this last part though as maybe 0.50 PPG was elite D production in that time, I havent looked into it yet.

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02-21-2017, 04:36 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonExpress View Post
X - Rod Brind'Amour - X: Saved the most controversial for last. Being that so many teams are assembling three strong scoring lines, I'm contemplating deploying Rod the Bod as the centerpiece of an elite shutdown trio that can play heavier minutes than most fourth units. His two Selkes speaks for themselves, and his offense would be so tilted in this role that I could give him two pure defensive specialists (re: one-trick ponies) as wingers and still reap the benefits. Shero was known for being among the first to roll four lines with regularity, so this could work.

Thoughts?
I don't think you can build an elite checking line with the remaining undrafted players.

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Old
02-21-2017, 04:55 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprague Cleghorn View Post
Have you considered Reardon as an option for one of your PP units? He has better D point finishes than Desjardins (2, 2, 3, 5, 9), and would probably be better than Vasiliev. In the Euro project, it was remarked that Vasiliev had a terrible shot from the point as his favorite target looked to have been the opponent's shinpads. His scoring numbers in the WC and Soviet league are pretty unspectacular with a PPG of less than 0.5. You might not want to quote me on this last part though as maybe 0.50 PPG was elite D production in that time, I havent looked into it yet.
Thanks, that's sound idea.

Suchy - Burns & Reardon - Desjardins for PP
and then Reise - Vasiliev & Reardon - Desjardins for PK

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Old
02-21-2017, 07:47 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmontonExpress View Post
I feel as though I have a ton of options for the configuration of my forward lines. Tommy Smith's unexpected availability only further complicated matters for me, and as such I could use some second opinions.

Right now I'm toying with this setup:

Roy Conacher - Bobby Clarke - Yvan Cournoyer: I look at this as a trio that really flows through the bookends; from what I've been reading, Conacher loved to take off with his other winger for odd-man breaks. That would suit Clarke just fine, as his vision and passing skills would allow him to spring his speedy partners with regularity. Add in his elite two-way play- I foresee Clarke hanging back at center ice to take care of business, almost like rovers used to do- and there could be something here.

Tommy Smith - Vladimir Petrov - Charlie Conacher: At first glance this line might seem a bit weird, but upon closer inspection it's modeled after the famed KPM unit of old. Smith is the brilliant individualist, Conacher the power winger willing to charge the net. Petrov is Petrov, and as his bio states, he excelled at making two disparate wingers work together in harmony. Like my first line, Petrov would also serve as the defensive conscious- a facet of the game he actually learned from Clarke.

Adam Graves - Ivan Hlinka - Joe Mullen: I might yet change this up, but I think this is the typical ATD 3rd line- bit of grit, bit of skill, bit of two-way play. Even with Mullen's short stature it's not an especially small unit either thanks to Graves (6'0 210) and Hlinka (6'2 220). When combined with their work ethic, I can easily see teams being worn down by this line's dogged forecheck.

X - Rod Brind'Amour - X: Saved the most controversial for last. Being that so many teams are assembling three strong scoring lines, I'm contemplating deploying Rod the Bod as the centerpiece of an elite shutdown trio that can play heavier minutes than most fourth units. His two Selkes speaks for themselves, and his offense would be so tilted in this role that I could give him two pure defensive specialists (re: one-trick ponies) as wingers and still reap the benefits. Shero was known for being among the first to roll four lines with regularity, so this could work.

Thoughts?
This is probably your best potential setup, yeah.

That first line, however, really lacks physicality. Clarke isn't necessarily physical in the corner digging sense. He often had others clean up the messes he started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I don't think you can build an elite checking line with the remaining undrafted players.
Sort of. There's some really good defensive players left but essentially they're all centers.

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Old
02-21-2017, 03:34 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by EdmontonExpress View Post
I'd leave it the way it is unless an offensively skilled RW falls to you for the third line. Then Claude be an above-average fourth liner.



I myself consider Propp more a glue guy, but between him, Neely and Lemieux, I would not question your team's toughness, no.
Thanks for your advice, will take it under advisement for sure.

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02-21-2017, 07:51 PM
  #292
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That first line, however, really lacks physicality. Clarke isn't necessarily physical in the corner digging sense. He often had others clean up the messes he started.
Clarke was an animal in the corners in any game I watched him play. Like his coach preached, he took the shortest route to the puck and arrived in ill humour. He wasn't big but he was very effective at forcing and winning puck battles.

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Old
02-21-2017, 08:21 PM
  #293
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Clarke was an animal in the corners in any game I watched him play. Like his coach preached, he took the shortest route to the puck and arrived in ill humour. He wasn't big but he was very effective at forcing and winning puck battles.
I would be more concerned with him not having a bodyguard on his line anymore now that Charlie Conacher is gone

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Old
02-21-2017, 08:28 PM
  #294
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Clarke was an animal in the corners in any game I watched him play. Like his coach preached, he took the shortest route to the puck and arrived in ill humour. He wasn't big but he was very effective at forcing and winning puck battles.
Thanks for the insight! I'd read similar things, of course, but a first-person anecdote is extremely valuable.

When it comes to this year's ATD, I can't think of a less enviable situation than being a forward and having Clarke, Fetisov and Kasatonov all waiting for me in the other end.

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02-21-2017, 08:33 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by EdmontonExpress View Post
Thanks for the insight! I'd read similar things, of course, but a first-person anecdote is extremely valuable.

When it comes to this year's ATD, I can't think of a less enviable situation than being a forward and having Clarke, Fetisov and Kasatonov all waiting for me in the other end.
How about any corner with Cleghorn or Shore in it?

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02-21-2017, 08:45 PM
  #296
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How about any corner with Cleghorn or Shore in it?
On a one-for-one basis, Shore is obviously more intimidating. But looking at Indiana's roster, their top six's most physical player is Naslund or Stastny; the same goes for South Shore, who beyond Cleghorn has maybe Northcott as a tag team partner. That's not the same as my three-man unit of puckhounds who bring size, smarts and heavy physical play to the table. There may not be a better trio at puck retrieval in the draft.

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02-21-2017, 08:49 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by EdmontonExpress View Post
On a one-for-one basis, Shore is obviously more intimidating. But looking at Indiana's roster, their top six's most physical player is Naslund or Stastny; the same goes for South Shore, who beyond Cleghorn has maybe Northcott as a tag team partner. That's not the same as my three-man unit of puckhounds who bring size, smarts and heavy physical play to the table. There may not be a better trio at puck retrieval in the draft.
Were Fetisov and Kasatonov really that physical?

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02-21-2017, 11:11 PM
  #298
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So now that we've drafted Mayorov, I'm curious about the thoughts you guys have with respect to setting up our PP. It's possible Mayorov doesn't make it on our PP but here is how I have it set up right now:

PP1: Starshinov - Thornton - Richard - Mohns - Bathgate
PP2: Joliat - Ullman - Mayorov - Suter - Ross

The question is, would it be better to take advantage of the Starshinov - Mayorov chemistry and go with this?

PP1: Ullman - Thornton - Richard - Mohns - Bathgate
PP2: Joliat - Starshinov - Mayorov - Suter - Ross

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Today, 09:24 AM
  #299
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So now that we've drafted Mayorov, I'm curious about the thoughts you guys have with respect to setting up our PP. It's possible Mayorov doesn't make it on our PP but here is how I have it set up right now:

PP1: Starshinov - Thornton - Richard - Mohns - Bathgate
PP2: Joliat - Ullman - Mayorov - Suter - Ross

The question is, would it be better to take advantage of the Starshinov - Mayorov chemistry and go with this?

PP1: Ullman - Thornton - Richard - Mohns - Bathgate
PP2: Joliat - Starshinov - Mayorov - Suter - Ross
Some insight please?

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