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Ukrainian clusterfrak part 12 - Whose Ukraine Is It Anyway, Let's make some stuff up!

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08-17-2014, 10:42 AM
  #976
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
And war is just pretty camo and funny fireworks for you?


That's cool.
1) Volunteer to an extremist batallion.
2) Bomb hospitals and civilian houses.
3) Cry about Geneva Conventions.
1) Volunteer to go fight to a neighboring country to steal land from them.
2) Terrorize the local population by stealing their money, houses, kidnap occasionally, prevent them from leaving the region, complain how the locals aren't supporting your "cause" enough.
3) Hide among the locals population and complain how the armed forces of the country. you're in are bombing you and shooting back and killing the civilians you clearly have no interest in protecting.

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08-17-2014, 10:48 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Cleansing a cauldron sounds like a terrible thing to do. And why would they surrender when you said they'd just be executed? Last thing, still waiting on all the evidence I've been asking for for two days now. Thanks!!!
The rebels will not execute conscripts. But yes, if there are any members of volunteer battalions inside the cauldron I guess it is same for them to fight until death.

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08-17-2014, 10:50 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by tobo View Post
To hell with the Geneva Conventions, right?
Geneve Conventions are applied in a war situation. According to Kiev this is not a war. This is an anti-terrorist operation.

The reason they don't call this a war because Ukrainian law prohibits use of army againt it's own citizens.


Last edited by Peter25: 08-17-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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08-17-2014, 10:54 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Muuri View Post
Russophiles in the West: What would you have EU to do? Withdraw all the support for Ukraine's government?Just want to undestand your goals.
Tell Kiev to stop it's "anti-terrorist operation" in Donbass and negotiate. This is what Russia has demanded Kiev to do from the start.

But the West has demanded the opposite! In fact one of the terms of the IMF loan for Ukraine was that it will immediately start a military operation in Eastern Ukraine and take a full control of this region.

The West want(ed)s Ukraine as a whole. The most juicy part of it, Crimea, is already lost. Now they are desperate to keep at least Eastern Ukraine.

EDIT: Ukraine's shale gas is also located in Donbass. And Hunter Biden wants to drill.


Last edited by Peter25: 08-17-2014 at 11:01 AM.
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08-17-2014, 10:56 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Tell Kiev to stop it's "anti-terrorist operation" in Donbass and negotiate. This is what Russia has demanded Kiev to do from the start.

But the West has demanded the opposite! In fact one of the terms of the IMF loan for Ukraine was that it will immediately start a military operation in Eastern Ukraine and take a full control of this region.

The West want(ed)s Ukraine as a whole. The most juicy part of it, Crimea, is already lost. Now they are desperate to keep at least Eastern Ukraine.
Russia isn't in any position to demand anything from Ukraine after stealing a part of their country.

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08-17-2014, 10:58 AM
  #981
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New thread up: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1723377

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08-17-2014, 11:11 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Except peter is saying that the rebels are executing prisoners and he seems to be okay with it. And Peter isn't translating from Russian.
I am personally okay them executing members of Right Sector, Azov battalion, Dnepr battalion etc. These are volunteer gangs formed to do "punitive" tasks in Donbass. They harass and kill civilians. They torture and kill rebel prisoners. They are not put in front lines but perform behind the front lines. Their job is to terrorize local population.

They should not be spared if caught.

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08-17-2014, 11:21 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Here is a day old map from a pro-rebel source:



According to this map there are two big cauldrons with major Ukrainian troops locked inside them. The southern cauldron contains three regime battalions. They can try to flee to Russia as a last resort.

The northern cauldron is completely locked without a possibility to flee to Russia. They can try to break away from the cauldron but it would be hugely costly for them. The other option is to surrender.
The northern Cauldron has Aidar battalion in it. They have been decimated twice already. This will probably be their last stand. Their only hope is to break through into the air port and hold out there.

The southern cauldron has the remnants of the 24th. They are in bad shape. Expect them to surrender in Russia.

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08-17-2014, 11:27 AM
  #984
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Those maps seem unrealistic to the point that you wonder if this whole Eastern Ukraine bollocks isn't just some massive exercise for Russian wannabes to get off while pretending they're still fighting WW2.

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08-17-2014, 11:28 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Russia isn't in any position to demand anything from Ukraine after stealing a part of their country.
Maybe not, but war is not going that well for the regime right now. If things don't change the regime might be forced into a negotiating table.

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08-17-2014, 11:32 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Those maps seem unrealistic to the point that you wonder if this whole Eastern Ukraine bollocks isn't just some massive exercise for Russian wannabes to get off while pretending they're still fighting WW2.
In what way are they unrealistic? That giant box on the bottom has 16 events from Aug 6-15 that make up that map. Each event is labeled with what happened and where and what time. What part of it do you disagree with? Do you read Russian and are able to tell me which sentences you disagree with? There are rebel videos confirming all these events.

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08-17-2014, 11:55 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
In what way are they unrealistic? That giant box on the bottom has 16 events from Aug 6-15 that make up that map. Each event is labeled with what happened and where and what time. What part of it do you disagree with? Do you read Russian and are able to tell me which sentences you disagree with? There are rebel videos confirming all these events.
The writing on the posted map is far too small to decipher the written word. But I can see what the map shows. It's 125 km from Donezk to Luhansk. That map shows both and far more, we're looking at a theatre map here that in 1943 had the Soviet Southern Front and Southwestern Front involving several Armies and several hundred thousands of men facing against the German 6th Army and 1st Panzer Army. There was over a million soldiers in the field here all said. When you had units of that size fighting, the word Kessel actually had a legit meaning.

What do we look at today, how many rebels are fighting how many Ukrainian troops/volunteers? A few hundred here, a few hundred there? How many of those are actually well-trained and well-led? This map creates an illusion of a military conflict when in reality there are plenty of groups who are "bandits" for lack of a better word on both sides. Terms like cauldrons and maps showing territory of hundreds of square kilometers covered by troops are just military porn and self-aggrandizement for these gangsters.

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