Who Would Support a Full Rebuild?

[weems]

Originally Posted by Durkin67

Im sure the whole team, hell, every local pro sports franchise would...pretty sad when they say the reception they got while playing a road game in Tampa was the best they've seen in over a month of home gâmes...it sucks being a fan here among all the tankers and nay sayers...imagine being a player...

Are you serious?
THIS IS NOTHING!

You should go see how the yankees fanbase reacts when they dont win.
You should have seen this past offseason in Boston when they didnt make the playoffs.

Heck its even way more negative in Montreal after just one bad year of hockey and no playoffs. The negativity on this board isnt even bad. Go to any other message board of a major market sports team and the negativity would be 50 times worse after this many years outside the playoffs. This board is actually pretty positive considering the situation and Burke approval threads or Burke re sign polls prove this.

[thebluemachine*]

Originally Posted by Frankie

but you've said that all teams are always rebuilding. when does a team stop rebuilding? what do you by "at one point or another"?

why are you making this distinction, then saying there isn't one?

I said there is no distinction in my post you just quoted. Why you're still stuck that I said there is one is anyone's guess.

[Longshot]

Originally Posted by hotpaws

You've got your timing wrong . JFJ went to the board after he drove the team into the gutter and then said he wanted to blow it up . The board told him to fix the mess he created and when he couldn't they fired him .

Burke is building nothing but a perinial bubble team .

Early in his tenure Ferguson went to the board with a power point presentation and outlined the future needs for the club. He said the Leafs needed to stock up on young talent in order to remain competitive as the league moved into a new financial reality (salary cap, revenue sharing). Essentially Ferguson told the board: "Once there is a cap, we need to have a stockpile of cheap young players in the system, because we won't be able to outspend the weaker teams."

However, his presentation also included the possibility that drafting and developing young players might mean the Leafs might miss the playoffs some years.

The Board wasn't willing to live with that and basically ordered Ferguson to keep making the playoffs no matter what. When that failed Ferguson asked for permission to blow the team up and he was denied. He was then fired and Fletcher was brought in as temporary GM.

I have no idea if Ferguson was capable of pulling off what he wanted to do. However, the root of the Leafs problems can be traced back directly to the Board denying its General Manager the ability to pursue his plan in favour of the allure of playoff profits. The ultimate irony is that this will be eight years out of the playoffs (Lock Out year is included).

[Whydidijoin*]

Originally Posted by hotpaws

So Tallon got lucky and poor Burkie has just been unlucky ?

I wanted high end elite prospects like Seguin and Hamilton , anyone can get young players . In fact the entire league has young players in thier prospect pools .

To some extent, yes, Tallon got lucky and Burke got unlucky. Not really on the signings because they aren't really all that great and are pretty comparable to the ones Burke has made. Probably worse actually. They were lucky more-so on how they were able to gel with the team so quickly, have prospects step up, and the ability for Theodore to put up his second best numbers ever at 35.

Kopecky - 3 million - 4 years - 29 points
Kind of like Connolly?

Jovanovski - 4.125 million - 4 years - 11 points, bottom pairing defenseman, 35+ contract
Kind of like Komisarek?

Scottie Upshall - 3.5 million - 4 years - 3 points, 19 games
Kind of like Amrstrong?

Tomas Fleischmann - 4.5 million - 4 years - 56 points
Kind of like Macarthur?

Sean Bergenheim - 2.75 million - 4 years - 22 points

Marcel Goc - 1.7 million - 3 years - 22 points

His signings were not good, nor did they turn out good. Natural progression, theodore playing above his head, and a smart trade for Campbell turned this team into what it is, and because they are fighting for a playoff spot, nobody cares.

You got high end elite prospects in Kessel and Gardiner. Lupul and Phaneuf are the kind of players you hope those kind of prospects turn into. We should have another pick this year, which according to HF logic, is 100% guaranteed to be elite.

[hotpaws]

Originally Posted by Longshot

Early in his tenure Ferguson went to the board with a power point presentation and outlined the future needs for the club. He said the Leafs needed to stock up on young talent in order to remain competitive as the league moved into a new financial reality (salary cap, revenue sharing). Essentially Ferguson told the board: "Once there is a cap, we need to have a stockpile of cheap young players in the system, because we won't be able to outspend the weaker teams."

However, his presentation also included the possibility that drafting and developing young players might mean the Leafs might miss the playoffs some years.

The Board wasn't willing to live with that and basically ordered Ferguson to keep making the playoffs no matter what. When that failed Ferguson asked for permission to blow the team up and he was denied. He was then fired and Fletcher was brought in as temporary GM.

I have no idea if Ferguson was capable of pulling off what he wanted to do. However, the root of the Leafs problems can be traced back directly to the Board denying its General Manager the ability to pursue his plan in favour of the allure of playoff profits. The ultimate irony is that this will be eight years out of the playoffs (Lock Out year is included).

When JFJ was hired the Leafs were a quality team . Yes they had some older players that needed to be replaced but there were many quality ufa's to be had at that time ( Chara , Pronger , Savard to name a few ) . No one siad he had to trade picks or prospects and in fact the possibilty existed that he could have dumped a few of our vets and added picks/prospects and then signed high quality ufa's .

JFJ's problem was that his trades and signings and resignings led the team out of the playoffs . Going to the owners and then asking to start a long term rebuild isn't something i think an owner would allow a GM who has already failed once at managing the club .