We'll really have to see who does what in the playoffs. Someone could easily play themselves into a contract. A la Warren Rychel (yes it's been that long).
I'd be interested in a Jake Gardiner and your first this year for Bernier, Martinez and a first from 2013.
i don't know, aMart played a hell of a game yesterday,
We'll really have to see who does what in the playoffs. Someone could easily play themselves into a contract. A la Warren Rychel (yes it's been that long).
I'd be interested in a Jake Gardiner and your first this year for Bernier, Martinez and a first from 2013.
As mentioned, there's almost no way the leafs give up the 5th pick overall. It's likely Berniers stock will rise after free agency; teams would rather sign a UFA than pay the price for Bernier but teams that strike out in FA between the pipes would get desperate.
As mentioned, there's almost no way the leafs give up the 5th pick overall. It's likely Berniers stock will rise after free agency; teams would rather sign a UFA than pay the price for Bernier but teams that strike out in FA between the pipes would get desperate.
Probably but I figured I'd throw it out there for fun. Most Kings fans here are demanding a top six forward but Toronto has none to spare let alone one we want bad (one that fits our team concept, if you will, like a Brown or Richards). But for the 5th overall and as another poster said, Forsberg is still there, then it at least makes sense for LA (or at least for the LA fans here).
Also, you won't get someone at the 5th pick spot that Toronto needs bad, like say, a young starting goaltender. You guys have forwards and any defenseman you draft at 5 will take at least a year or three to develop, not to mention any goalie you draft with any pick you have this year.
We'll really have to see who does what in the playoffs. Someone could easily play themselves into a contract. A la Warren Rychel (yes it's been that long).
I'd be interested in a Jake Gardiner and your first this year for Bernier, Martinez and a first from 2013.
NO....no more trading of the 1st picks for at least 2-3 years. LA can't get back into that mold of trading its #1 and #2 picks for guys. for decades that has lead the team no place. the 1 & 2's are most likely going to be the foundation that every club is built on. it just has to stop. #1's get you a B Schenn, that in turn gets you a MR. that i am fine with when the right situation comes around, but those are few and far between. keeping trading away top picks that get you that type of blue chip prospect and you can't get a player like MR.
trading away 1 & 2's leave you with a team of pluggers and plumbers most likely. they will skate and work their ***** off, but they lack the skill to score. sound familiar? it's LA since they keep drafting D and G in the first few rounds for year after year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsfan999
he seems like he's become a lot more physical too...
Alec has been that way all season. i think his comfort with the NHL game is getting better, which has allowed him to play more physical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeaf83
As mentioned, there's almost no way the leafs give up the 5th pick overall. It's likely Berniers stock will rise after free agency; teams would rather sign a UFA than pay the price for Bernier but teams that strike out in FA between the pipes would get desperate.
50/50 on this argument. after last summer and this season's results when it comes to UFA goalies it won't surprise me if guys like JB, Schneider, etc become the preferred choice. TB and Yzerman's choice essentially came down to a UFA keeper and their season was lost. other teams had the same result. the rare exception was PHX picking up M SMith.
Last edited by Whiskeypete: 04-17-2012 at 08:46 AM.
I'd be interested in a Jake Gardiner and your first this year for Bernier, Martinez and a first from 2013.
Yeah, not happening. I'd do that in a heartbeat though. Gardiner is better than Martinez now IMO. That said, we can't do that deal anyways until Columbus decides if it's taking our 1st or not for this upcoming draft, and they have until 2 spots before our pick to decide, by which point Toronto's 1st will have already been used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apadilla
i don't know, aMart played a hell of a game yesterday,
He didn't play a "5th overall pick" good of a game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete
NO....no more trading of the 1st picks for at least 2-3 years. LA can't get back into that mold of trading its #1 and #2 picks for guys. for decades that has lead the team no place. the 1 & 2's are most likely going to be the foundation that every club is built on. it just has to stop. #1's get you a B Schenn, that in turn gets you a MR. that i am fine with when the right situation comes around, but those are few and far between. keeping trading away top picks that get you that type of blue chip prospect and you can't get a player like MR.
trading away 1 & 2's leave you with a team of pluggers and plumbers most likely. they will skate and work their ***** off, but they lack the skill to score. sound familiar? it's LA since they keep drafting D and G in the first few rounds for year after year.
You do realize in that trade offer we'd be getting a 1st round pick back? A 5th overall 1st round pick? Not to mention another guy (Gardiner) who was a former 1st and is only 21 with a full NHL season under his belt and is the best player in the trade currently?
I think the leafs and kings have both been in the same boat the past 20 or so years willing to dump high picks for a quick fix, particularily goaltending. I can also appreciate that you could argue that the last time the kings were confident about their goaltending before now was with Kelly Hrudey in net so I can understand why you don't want Bernier or Quick out the door uness it's for a solid return. Likewise we've dumped 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 4th combined on Toskala and Raycroft hence why leaf fans will immediately shoot down any notion of a 1st for Bernier (hopefully Bernier turns out better than Toskala but you could argue Vesa in 2007 was comparable to Bernier now)
Burke is still taking heat for giving up the 2nd overall pick in 2010 for kessell, they'll have his head if he moves this one as well.
I'd assume you would like Lupul but his contract is not a good one, do you have any bad contracts to unload (toronto does have cap room?)
I guess the goaltending market can be unpredictable. Nobody can rationally explain why Vokoun signed for 1.5 mil and Varlamov fetched a 1st and 2nd on the SAME day. Personally I'd take Bernier over Varlamov and would have a year ago as well; Varly has only shown flashes but has failed in different areas, Bernier has not.
I think the reason why Bernier is so attractive for the leafs is because he'd fit with Reimer; most rational leaf fans will tell you that Reimer should not be given up on yet but he's also not someone you can just give 65 starts to next year blindly. So it makes it difficult for who to bring in as the second goalie, can't go with an established starter such as Luongo or Quick who'd command 70 starts but we also can't bring in a guy like Alex Auld who is nothing more than a backup. The ideal target is Josh Harding and possibly Vokoun since they are free agents but the fall back is Bernier; all 3 of those guys could battle for starts with Reimer which is what the leafs want; a guy who will fight for starts without commanding them.
I think the leafs and kings have both been in the same boat the past 20 or so years willing to dump high picks for a quick fix, particularily goaltending. I can also appreciate that you could argue that the last time the kings were confident about their goaltending before now was with Kelly Hrudey in net so I can understand why you don't want Bernier or Quick out the door uness it's for a solid return. Likewise we've dumped 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 4th combined on Toskala and Raycroft hence why leaf fans will immediately shoot down any notion of a 1st for Bernier (hopefully Bernier turns out better than Toskala but you could argue Vesa in 2007 was comparable to Bernier now)
Burke is still taking heat for giving up the 2nd overall pick in 2010 for kessell, they'll have his head if he moves this one as well.
I'd assume you would like Lupul but his contract is not a good one, do you have any bad contracts to unload (toronto does have cap room?)
I guess the goaltending market can be unpredictable. Nobody can rationally explain why Vokoun signed for 1.5 mil and Varlamov fetched a 1st and 2nd on the SAME day. Personally I'd take Bernier over Varlamov and would have a year ago as well; Varly has only shown flashes but has failed in different areas, Bernier has not.
I think the reason why Bernier is so attractive for the leafs is because he'd fit with Reimer; most rational leaf fans will tell you that Reimer should not be given up on yet but he's also not someone you can just give 65 starts to next year blindly. So it makes it difficult for who to bring in as the second goalie, can't go with an established starter such as Luongo or Quick who'd command 70 starts but we also can't bring in a guy like Alex Auld who is nothing more than a backup. The ideal target is Josh Harding and possibly Vokoun since they are free agents but the fall back is Bernier; all 3 of those guys could battle for starts with Reimer which is what the leafs want; a guy who will fight for starts without commanding them.
Nice post.
I think the most rationale idea for the Kings is to deal Bernier once Quick is resigned, as he's kind of our backup option should Quick leave as an UFA.
Obviously, that'd eliminate a draft day deal as Quick can't be resigned until July 1st at the earliest. Assuming we resign Quick in the summer, Bernier would be dealt to fill any needs we didn't address through UFA. Likely, that will once again involve a scoring winger, or a third line scoring option. That's why to me, a guy like Kulemin seems the most logical place to start the discussions and expand from there.
Interested to hear a Kings fan's appraisal of Stoll, he's a name that pops up a lot on the Leafs board. From the thread it seems most are willing to let him walk, why is that?
Interested to hear a Kings fan's appraisal of Stoll, he's a name that pops up a lot on the Leafs board. From the thread it seems most are willing to let him walk, why is that?
I'm sure other fans will flame what I have to say, especially if Herby ever reads this, but I think it's a combination of to high of expectations and a high salary.
Granted, Stoll didn't meet my expectations either, but I think a lot of people felt he'd slide into a 3rd line centre role and still net 15 goals and 40 points. He netted about half of that. If you are looking for someone who can produce on the 3rd line if you give him decent linemates (not Trevor Lewis/Brad Richardson/Kyle Clifford/etc.) and be good in the faceoff circle, he's a great player for around $2 million a season.
At $3.6 million a season, which is what he's getting now, not so much. I think he's a solid player to have in your bottom six who can fill in on your second line for short stretches, which is a good thing to have. Here though, after we traded Visnovksy for him (and Matt Greene) and after scoring 40+ points for three straight seasons, expectations were much higher.
I think the most rationale idea for the Kings is to deal Bernier once Quick is resigned, as he's kind of our backup option should Quick leave as an UFA.
Obviously, that'd eliminate a draft day deal as Quick can't be resigned until July 1st at the earliest. Assuming we resign Quick in the summer, Bernier would be dealt to fill any needs we didn't address through UFA. Likely, that will once again involve a scoring winger, or a third line scoring option. That's why to me, a guy like Kulemin seems the most logical place to start the discussions and expand from there.
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure an extension can be signed at any point. But otherwise that does make sense, wouldnt want to be in a situation where they lose both Bernier and Quick.
EDMONTON JOURNAL: Jim Matheson also weighed in on the Luongo trade speculation, listing Tampa Bay, Toronto, Columbus, Florida and Chicago as possible destinations…Nashville Predators forward Jordin Tootoo’s unhappy over his lack of playing time in this year’s playoffs, while forward Colin Wilson’s been a healthy scratch and could become prime trade bait this summer…Brad Stuart’s played his final game as a Red Wings, as he’s expected to sign with a California-based team to be closer to his family in San Jose…Matheson suspects the Capitals will let Tomas Vokoun walk via free agency, and wonders if the LA Kings would be interested in him as a replacement for current backup Jonathan Bernier, who’s expected to be dealt this summer…He also wondered if Bruins goalie Tim Thomas might be available if the Bruins fall in round one and decide they don’t want to pay for his final season …Matheson also considers Josh Harding’s stock as a free agent “middling” because of his injury history.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: I’ve already touched on potential destinations for Luongo…Tootoo might also find himself on the trade block if he continues to see limited action this spring. I’ll be surprised if Wilson isn’t shopped this summer…Stuart is singing, “California, here I come, right back where I started from”…Of course the Capitals will let Vokoun walk, as they’ll go with Holtby and Michal Neuvirth as their tandem, just as they should’ve in the first place! As for the Kings, let’s wait and see what they do with Bernier first. There’s a chance they could decide to hang onto him…Thomas’ “no-trade” clause expires on July 1st, and Tuukka Rask is, as Matheson noted, waiting in the wings. Don’t be surprised if the Bruins field offers…Harding’s stock may be “middling” now, but it’ll improve this summer if teams in need of goaltending depth can’t find what they’re looking for via trades or free agency.
for one thing I'd be shocked if Luongo ever returns to the panthers, there is plenty of bad emotions there.
I doubt Vokoun gets relegated to backup. Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Edmonton, possibly New Jersey, Long Island, Tampa Bay, and Toronto are all teams looking for either a starter or at minimum a 1B goalie. Goalies who could fit that role and are available include Thomas *maybe*, Bernier/Quick, Harding, Nabokov, Elliot, Luongo/Schneider *maybe* and Vokoun. So 7 or 8 teams looking for guys who can play serious minutes, 5-7 guys who could fill that role. If Vokoun somehow ends up odd man out, he'd likely take a backup role where he'd get more starts than L.A. Only way you guys see Vokoun as a King is if Quick gets moved.
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure an extension can be signed at any point. But otherwise that does make sense, wouldnt want to be in a situation where they lose both Bernier and Quick.
I'll let the CBA experts step in if I'm wrong, but my understanding is a player can't sign an extension until he is in the final year of his contract. July 1st would be the first day of the final year for Quick.
I belive UFA's to be can resign from july 1st until training camp. After that, they have to wait until January.
I'll let the CBA experts step in if I'm wrong, but my understanding is a player can't sign an extension until he is in the final year of his contract. July 1st would be the first day of the final year for Quick.
I belive UFA's to be can resign from july 1st until training camp. After that, they have to wait until January.
you might be right. I know contracts can't be renegotiated but extensions can. I haven't seen an extension signed prior to the final year (kind of pointless doing it that early any how)
I would not count on any big changes. The player of interest to the Leafs would be Bernier and he will probably be available.
You look at the UFAs to be and there are no huge names. Penner will probably be let go. Stoll will depend on price, if he takes a considerable pay cut he will stay, if he wants $3M+ he can get it from a team that needs some combination of what he brings to the table (faceoff guy, right-handed shot on power-play point, etc). Richards, Carter and Kopitar all have huge commitments from the organization, Williams just signed a pretty fair extension that kicked in this year and Brown has maybe the best contract in the NHL until it expires.
Defense is all under contract and I don't see them making any big change there. It's also the deepest position in the organization arguably.
__________________
Danny Duberstein is good at two things ...
