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Prime Bure vs. Prime Selanne

View Poll Results: Who was better in their primes?
Teemu Selanne 59 34.10%
Pavel Bure 114 65.90%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2014, 08:16 PM
  #76
btdvox
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Bure.

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08-02-2014, 09:08 PM
  #77
ScaredStreit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
One poster said he was on the Lemieux level, and you lump it up to everbody in the HF? No he's not on the top tier. He isn't THAT far off, at least if you look at the numbers, he is 11th in all time scoring, not 211th. Is there somebody behind him in the all-time scorers list who you think is better goal scorer?
Yes he really is. Selanne has NEVER been remotely close to being as dominate as Lemieux.

PS: I'm a bigger Selanne fan than I am a Lemieux fan.

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08-03-2014, 03:42 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Yes he really is. Selanne has NEVER been remotely close to being as dominate as Lemieux.

PS: I'm a bigger Selanne fan than I am a Lemieux fan.
I was talking about goal scoring, not overall play.

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08-03-2014, 04:38 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
I was talking about goal scoring, not overall play.
Even when talking about pure goal-scoring, Selanne trails Lemieux by a huge step. Not in the same tier.

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Old
08-03-2014, 05:05 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mulletman View Post
Bure could've taught Selanne how to shoot, stick handle and cherry pick.
I don't think there would have been any need for Bure to teach Selänne how to shoot, nor how to cherry pick. He could do both very well already in his rookie season. This footage below is from Selänne's record night against Quebec in 92|93 when he surpassed Bossy's rookie record for most goals in a season. Notice how he cherry picks pretty hard on both goal #1 [in the first video] and goal #3 [in the second video], the first one on an outlet pass from Housley, the other one on a flip pass out of the defensive zone from Domi. Selänne barely enters his own zone before his third goal while all the other Jets players are at their own goal line at one time.

Selänne had great speed and flash, I mean just look at his end to end rush at 1:30 in the first video, but this notion that Bure was a big time cherry picker and Selänne wasn't is absurd.

Bure could have taught Selänne how to play on the PK. He had 49 SH points in 702 games, while Selänne had 9 SH points in 1451 games.



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08-03-2014, 05:15 AM
  #81
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I honestly dislike it when the "cherry picker" label is used to discredit players. Yeah, both Bure and Selänne were cherry pickers, but it isn't like any player could score a ridiculous amount of goals by starting to cherry pick. Bure and Selänne had every right to do it, because they are among the best goal scorers of all time. Not directed to any posts here, just a general observation.

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08-03-2014, 01:31 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icebreakers View Post
Pavel Bure scored 59 goals and 92 points in the dead puck era while the second highest scorer on his team had 37 points.
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Nuff said
1997-1998 scoring avg 5.276
2000-2001 scoring avg 5.531

Selanne 97-98 73gp 52g 86pts
Bure 00-01 82gp 59g 92pts

Selanne 97-98 0.71gpg 1.18ppg
Bure 00-01 0.72gpg 1.12ppg

97-98 Anaheim had goal differential of -56, Selanne was +12
00-01 Florida had goal differential of -46, Bure was -2

Anaheim 97-98 top3 forwards:

Selanne 52g 86pts
Steve Rucchin 17g 53pts
Scott Young 13g 33pts

Florida 00-01 top3 forwards:

Bure 59g 92pts
Viktor Kozlov 14g 37pts
Marcus Nilsson 12g 36pts


Last edited by jepjepjoo: 08-03-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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Old
08-04-2014, 11:27 AM
  #83
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lemieux > selanne. But not lemieux>> selanne.

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Old
08-04-2014, 12:03 PM
  #84
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Close, but I vote prime Bure. He was amazing until that first knee injury.

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Old
08-04-2014, 02:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
I don't think there would have been any need for Bure to teach Selänne how to shoot, nor how to cherry pick. He could do both very well already in his rookie season. This footage below is from Selänne's record night against Quebec in 92|93 when he surpassed Bossy's rookie record for most goals in a season. Notice how he cherry picks pretty hard on both goal #1 [in the first video] and goal #3 [in the second video], the first one on an outlet pass from Housley, the other one on a flip pass out of the defensive zone from Domi. Selänne barely enters his own zone before his third goal while all the other Jets players are at their own goal line at one time.

Selänne had great speed and flash, I mean just look at his end to end rush at 1:30 in the first video, but this notion that Bure was a big time cherry picker and Selänne wasn't is absurd.

Bure could have taught Selänne how to play on the PK. He had 49 SH points in 702 games, while Selänne had 9 SH points in 1451 games.


Bure was way better than Selanne at both shooting and cherry picking. Selanne has one of the worst shots of all elite goal scorers ever. His wrist shot is weak and his slap shot is nothing special. Sure Selanne could cherry pick, but not as good as Bure.

Selanne didn't spend nearly as much time on the PK compared to Bure even if he played much more games. He pretty much didn't PK at all after the 04-05 lockout.

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08-04-2014, 02:25 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulletman View Post
Bure was way better than Selanne at both shooting and cherry picking. Selanne has one of the worst shots of all elite goal scorers ever. His wrist shot is weak and his slap shot is nothing special. Sure Selanne could cherry pick, but not as good as Bure.

Selanne didn't spend nearly as much time on the PK compared to Bure even if he played much more games. He pretty much didn't PK at all after the 04-05 lockout.
Go look at Selanne's goals from youtube, he may not had the most powerful shot, but it was quick of the blade and accurate.

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08-04-2014, 02:30 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulletman View Post
Bure was way better than Selanne at both shooting and cherry picking. Selanne has one of the worst shots of all elite goal scorers ever. His wrist shot is weak and his slap shot is nothing special. Sure Selanne could cherry pick, but not as good as Bure.

Selanne didn't spend nearly as much time on the PK compared to Bure even if he played much more games. He pretty much didn't PK at all after the 04-05 lockout.
I'm confused, is cherry picking a good thing?

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08-04-2014, 02:32 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
I'm confused, is cherry picking a good thing?
Of course it is! If Selanne could've cherry picked as good as Bure he would've scored over 700 goals instead of only 684...

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08-04-2014, 02:36 PM
  #89
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Bure.

Prime for Prime, of Anaheim forwards, Kariya would be the better guy to ask this question about. At his best, he was the best player on the Might Ducks and right up there with Bure and Lindros, a little back from Jagr.

If you asked about "career," you'd get a different answer, however.

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08-04-2014, 02:56 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Bure.

Prime for Prime, of Anaheim forwards, Kariya would be the better guy to ask this question about. At his best, he was the best player on the Might Ducks and right up there with Bure and Lindros, a little back from Jagr.

If you asked about "career," you'd get a different answer, however.
No, just no.

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Old
08-04-2014, 03:37 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Bure.

Prime for Prime, of Anaheim forwards, Kariya would be the better guy to ask this question about. At his best, he was the best player on the Might Ducks and right up there with Bure and Lindros, a little back from Jagr.

If you asked about "career," you'd get a different answer, however.
Selanne was one of the most dominant players ever. So you are just wrong here.

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08-04-2014, 11:50 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddy83 View Post
I was talking about goal scoring, not overall play.
And Selanne has never been close to Lemieux at scoring goals either. Selanne's best year was his rookie year. And Lemieux still had a better GPG percentage.

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08-05-2014, 12:11 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
And Selanne has never been close to Lemieux at scoring goals either. Selanne's best year was his rookie year. And Lemieux still had a better GPG percentage.
I don't think Selanne's best year was his rookie year. Actually, I think most people think that it wasn't his best year. Not overall or even goal-scoring wise. But true, Selanne wasn't even close to being the same goal-scorer as Lemieux. Lemieux might just be the best scorer in the history of hockey.

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08-05-2014, 06:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I don't think Selanne's best year was his rookie year. Actually, I think most people think that it wasn't his best year. Not overall or even goal-scoring wise. But true, Selanne wasn't even close to being the same goal-scorer as Lemieux. Lemieux might just be the best scorer in the history of hockey.
Most of the people who know anything beyond the stats would say that 1997-1998 was Selanne's best year.

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08-05-2014, 07:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Icebreakers View Post
Pavel Bure scored 59 goals and 92 points in the dead puck era while the second highest scorer on his team had 37 points.
I laugh every time I remember that.

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08-05-2014, 09:44 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Mulletman View Post
Bure was way better than Selanne at both shooting and cherry picking. Selanne has one of the worst shots of all elite goal scorers ever. His wrist shot is weak and his slap shot is nothing special. Sure Selanne could cherry pick, but not as good as Bure.

Selanne didn't spend nearly as much time on the PK compared to Bure even if he played much more games. He pretty much didn't PK at all after the 04-05 lockout.
Bure did not cherrypick in Vancouver; he created offense from his own zone. Selanne cherrypicked more than Bure, I reckon.

Selanne played with Phil Housley and some decent linemates in his rookie season. Pavel's linemates were, in comparison, quite underwhelming. Maybe Pavel would have had more than 76 playing with Housley. After all, for half a season each in both 1992-93 and 1993-94 he scored at a goal-per-game pace; maybe playing with Housley would have kept that run going and/or made that period even more productive. In spite of playing with better linemates in 1992-93, Selanne trailed Bure in scoring by 5 goals in the first 48 games of the season.

Also, for the first half of the 1993-94 season Bure's groin injury hampered him. He had 49 goals and 78 points in the last 51 games of the season. Without injury (and playing with Phil Housley), he probably surpasses 75 goals that year as well. He played in all situations; penalty kill, powerplay, even strength. He played in the final minute of games whether trailing or leading; trailing because he could score to tie games, leading because he could help bring the puck out of the defensive zone.

Pavel could make things happen from his own zone before his injuries damaged his skating ability. By the time he was in Florida, he had already required two major knee surgeries. If he had been healthy, I don't think he would have needed to cherry pick; he could just grab the puck and fly through the neutral zone. Before he lost his lateral mobility, he was one of the shiftiest players in the NHL. From his own zone, he had far more control of the play going up the ice.


Quote:
Doctor says Bure was destined for further knee injuries: [Final Edition]
Nanaimo Daily News [Nanaimo, B.C] 01 Apr 1999: B2.

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Pavel Bure's reconstructed right knee was destined for a series of injuries when he joined the Florida Panthers Jan. 17, according to the team orthopedist.

Since the trade, Bure twice injured his knee, and Monday had a second reconstructive surgery in Birmingham, Ala. His first reconstruction was in 1995, after he tore his anterior cruciate ligament with Vancouver.

Dr. David Attarian told the Palm Beach Post there were problems with the knee when he first examined Bure -- three games after the goal-scoring threat arrived from the Canucks.

"That's all news to me," Panthers general manager Bryan Murray said when told of Attarian's comments.

Attarian said his examination revealed Bure's first reconstruction was already stretching when the Panthers signed him, and "that set him up for a series of injuries."

Bure, who was in Moscow when the Panthers made the trade, joined the team on a road trip in New York. The team asked New Jersey Devils physicians to look at Bure's knee and they said he was fine. Attarian examined Bure when the team returned to Florida.

Bryan Murray said there was little difference in Bure's healthy and reconstructed knee when the Panthers first examined him.

"He was fit and healthy enough to play," Murray said.

Bure was diagnosed with a muscle strain Feb. 5 which could have actually been a partial tear, Attarian said.

...

Attarian said an arthroscopic surgery he conducted March 5 -- after Bure's second knee injury with Florida -- showed the reconstruction done in 1995 had failed.

Attarian said he knew a second reconstruction was necessary but Bure wanted to try to play on the injury. Bure got as far as practice but his knee never came close to being fit enough to play.

"A lot of information was never made public," Attarian said. "We felt it would be OK to conceal it if he was able to play safely."
Quote:
Works Cited

"Doctor Says Bure was Destined for further Knee Injuries." Nanaimo Daily News: 0. Apr 01 1999. ProQuest. Web. 6 Aug. 2013 .


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 08-05-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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08-05-2014, 10:29 PM
  #97
ScaredStreit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all about teemu View Post
lemieux > selanne. But not lemieux>> selanne.
You're right. It's Lemieux >>> Selanne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Most of the people who know anything beyond the stats would say that 1997-1998 was Selanne's best year.
I clearly said his best year at SCORING GOALS. The poster is trying to defend their position that Selanne can be argued as being just as good as scoring goals as Lemieux is. It's a laughable statement.

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08-06-2014, 12:42 AM
  #98
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
You're right. It's Lemieux >>> Selanne.



I clearly said his best year at SCORING GOALS. The poster is trying to defend their position that Selanne can be argued as being just as good as scoring goals as Lemieux is. It's a laughable statement.
I don't think it was his best year even at goal-scoring. But I get the point. We are just arguing semantics. Lemieux might just be the best goal-scorer in the history of hockey. Selanne wasn't even the best of his generation.

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08-06-2014, 12:46 AM
  #99
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Prime Bure was a treat to watch.

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