Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
First of all Mr. Sensitive.. This is a value thread not a proposal. Secondly, if you actually take the time to read what I initially wrote and didn't get your panties in a bunch you can see I state the Canucks would probably looking for established NHL players if they were to trade Kesler.
Does it make sense from the Canucks? Probably not which I also stated
All I did was put a value on Kesler from a Ducks perspective. It has nothing to do with him actually being traded.
As for your remarks as Tanev being the same as Schultz.. HF Homer
Either way you can continue to be Mr. Sensitive and hold on to Kesler. He's a good player and you shouldn't trade him.
You are kind of embarrassing yourself at this point. Why make a proposal if you are not going to even include established players despite saying so? The jist of my post is mainly replied to your proposal, and not to what you said prior to. Get your head out of your ass. I am the one being sensitive? You are the one who's replied back with an even more agressive tone.
You still haven't even given me a reason why the canucks would be interested whatsoever. You probably have no clue who tanev is. Yeah I am the homer, and you are clearly objective, and know more than all of us.
Last line of your post is about what we can agree to. Or you can continue to argue.
As a nucks fan I would trade Kesler to the islanders but the conversation starts with Hamonic and includes Okposo
you dont trade realitivly young players that has won a Selke throphy and a Playoff round by themselves for anything less than huge potential.
Understandable, but as an Isles fan there is no way I am trading Hamonic. The kid has potential to be a great #1 defenseman in this league and Okposo could very well be a 60 point 2 way forward, Isles definitely decline this offer.
1st, Weiss, Garrison's rights and any prospect(s) not named Huberdeau?
Downgrade at center, but at least Weiss is a good #2 center that is responsible defensively and is a 50-60pt player. Plus, his cap hit is 3.1m next year.
However, no way Canucks trade Kesler, too important and has a very good cap hit.
This is true, but how many forward 2nd overalls have become anything less than stars since the lockout?
Cool story? You're a blind homer if you don't see Weber>>>Edler and if you don't think that Grigorenko will be a better player than Kesler.
Weber is better than Edler but is he 4M per year better than Edler? Weber could easily get $7.5m+ on his next contract, and if he were going to UFA would no doubt have teams offering 8.5+. I'd take Edler at $3.5M on his current deal.
While Weber > Edler, Weber < Edler + 5M in cap space
As for Grigorienko, all I'm gonna say is that Kesler is better now, and is actually an NHL asset. Canucks are looking to win now, not in 10 years.
If Kesler's value is similiar to the value of Richards and Carter.
Carter to CBJ - 8th OA, Voracek, 3rd round pick
Carter to LAK - Jack Johnson, ~19th OA
Richards to LAK - Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, 2nd round pick
Then how about if Wsh offer:
Avs 1st (~11th OA), Marcus Johansson, Dmitry Orlov
As for your remarks as Tanev being the same as Schultz.. HF Homer
sorry, but you're the one being ridiculous here. The previous poster was giving too much value to Schultz. Tanev is more valuable right now than Schultz is, and if you don't see that, either you're the one being a homer, or you are just misinformed.
Schultz is an unsigned prospect who's got UFA leverage on June 1st. His value *right now* is no different than any other UFA to be. He can walk from Anaheim without any return at all. How does such an asset have much value at all? We've seen the rights of much better, much more established players dealt for mid-round picks, and here you think that a guy like Schultz - as talented a prospect as he may be - has much value at all when he's about to hit UFA status?
Tanev is a 21 yr old rookie dman that has just earned a spot on the shutdown pairing on a team that is still challenging for the Presidents' trophy. This is a team that is much better than the Ducks are, and Tanev, as a 21 YO, has secured a spot on a key pairing for them.
You think that any team that has an asset like that is going to deal them for any UFA to be player?
Tanev's value right now, as a signed rookie dman, playing a key role on a top team is MUCH GREATER than Schultz's value, as an unsigned rookie, who's got the leverage to hit UFA status a full month before UFA signing begins, and before the playoffs end.
Like I said, you're either misinformed or a complete homer - which is it?
Green, COL 1st (11th right now) + ? Johansson? Another 1st?
Values not awful, but the problem is it creates another hole without really filling it. We had a Johansson type player, a young skilled center, that we traded rather then giving Kesler less time. Green will improve our offense from the back end, but we also let a player of a similar vein, although less extreme then Green, walk this summer rather then giving him a similar cap hit. The first (s?) add value, but this is almost a move for the future rather then the present, which like the Caps (?), is what we'd be looking for.
Cool story? You're a blind homer if you don't see Weber>>>Edler and if you don't think that Grigorenko will be a better player than Kesler.
Weber is better than Edler, although you continuously adding brackets isn't clever. Grigorenko however is a complete unknown. He could be better but easily could not. Kesler is still better overall than Hall or Seguin and probably will remain so defensively. In short, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Weber is better than Edler but is he 4M per year better than Edler? Weber could easily get $7.5m+ on his next contract, and if he were going to UFA would no doubt have teams offering 8.5+. I'd take Edler at $3.5M on his current deal.
While Weber > Edler, Weber < Edler + 5M in cap space
As for Grigorienko, all I'm gonna say is that Kesler is better now, and is actually an NHL asset. Canucks are looking to win now, not in 10 years.
And Edler will need a new contract in a couple of years. I imagine that he'll get around $6M (a good bit more than Bieksa). And Weber at $8M > Edler at $6M.
And you are right Grigorenko could totally stink. But he has the potential to be a star #1C, and with Sedin climbing in age, you have to make that trade. Grigorenko will make you competitive for years more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor
Weber is better than Edler, although you continuously adding brackets isn't clever. Grigorenko however is a complete unknown. He could be better but easily could not. Kesler is still better overall than Hall or Seguin and probably will remain so defensively. In short, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I love how every time I write anything in any thread involving the Canucks, I get a half-answer and then a "clearly you have know idea what you're talking about". It isn't convincing in the slightest.
Yes, when Seguin and Hall are nineteen years old, Kesler is better defensively. Congratulations to him, that's just an awesome achievement. I know that you love the player that you get to watch every night; everyone does, not just you. But Hall and Seguin are capable of 90 points, and I'd take the 90 point average defensively forward over the 70 point Selke forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNamed
2005 - Bobby Ryan
2006 - Jordan Staal
2007 - JVR
2010 - Seguin
Seguin is the only one I would take over Kesler..
You're being selective. Personally, I'd take Ryan over Kesler (but that's just me and I don't blame you for not). But in Staal's case, Toews and Backstrom were taken directly after him. You can't cherry-pick the 2nd pick because the Pens drafted for need. 2007 was a terrible draft, which 2012 will not be until after pick 10.
I'm sure you would be looking for established NHL players in return however
Cogliano
Kyle Palmieri
Justin Schultz
Probably not enticing enough for Vancouver to bight but between Palmieri and Schultz there is some serious potential..
regardless of whether you prefaced your brutal "value of" with anything why would you bother putting anything down if you were only trying to incite a negative reaction? This is like saying "no offence, but I hate you" "what? don't be over sensitive I said no offence".
Do you honestly think that Kesler is worth an overpaid 4th liner, a solid prospect and an unsigned college kid who will be a free agent on June 1st?
HF Homer
