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Fun question. If you were to rebuild, who do you keep? who do you trade?

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Old
01-07-2014, 09:23 AM
  #126
gabeliscious
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leafs arent going to rebuild/retool. if they were going to they would have done it in the summer by moving kessel and phaneuf.

kessel = 1st + blue chip prospect + good young roster player
phaneuf = 1st + really good prospect

adding 2 firsts + blue chip prospect + really good prospect along with our 1st round pick would kick start a retool.

we would still be left with,


jvr-bozak-lupul
kulemin-kadri-holland
raymond-bolland-clarkson
damigo-mclemment-orr/mclaren/smith/ashton


gardiner-franson
gleason-gunnarson
rielly-ranger/fraser


obviously not great but with an extra $15 million in cap space you could probably get some stop gaps.

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01-07-2014, 09:31 AM
  #127
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Based on my own thoughts on how a team should be built and play I'd trade

Kessel - never been a big fan of his and especially not building around. Gilmour said it best. Burns came up to him and said I need you to be my hardest worker every practice.

Reimer - think his time is done and Bernier needs starts and a vet and I think is capable

Gunnar - solid dman, should have good value, easily replaced long term when the time is right

Kulemin - similar to gunnar, just think he's pricing him out of where the leafs are at right now.

Bozak - stop gap 1st line C, should be 3rd but is being paid to much. if he has value id' move him

Kadri - similar to Kessel, very talented just not a player I'd build around


My focus would be

- puck control and cycle style
- balanced LH/RH on D
- strong faceoff centers
- motivate players by system, players know everyone's responsibility and keep each other accountable. nothing is done on the ice (including practice) without clear purpose.

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Old
01-07-2014, 10:50 AM
  #128
The Apologist
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This thread is absolutely hilarious. Pure comedy gold.

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Old
01-07-2014, 11:32 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
You can blame the lesser players like Kostka, Ranger, Fraser, Grabovski, Raymond, etc. or anyone you want, but at the end of the day, I look at our franchise forward Phil Kessel on a night like this, and he sets the tone.

When the opposition decides to play a grinding heavy game and lean on the Leafs, clog up the neutral zone and shut down our top line, what can Phil Kessel actually do? If there's no room to skate, is he going to create space for himself? If he gets double teamed off the puck, is he going to fight tooth and nail to get it back? Is he going to create a turnover through tireless defensive effort? Is he going to throw a big hit on the forecheck? When the team loses is he going to stand up and take the heat and bear the responsibility?

No, he doesn't have to do any of those things and neither does anyone else. No one is accountable and the team doesn't get better. Same old meltdowns every ****ing year. Phil Kessel doesn't necessarily have to be traded but he cannot be our number one forward. Otherwise, this is what you get every time.

Everyone's to blame but it starts at the top.
SO SO True...Some fans think that if you change up the 3rd line center or the 5th defenseman then the team will improve. The team sucks because the best players dont perform consistently. They are not a good mix...too many offensive minded ballerinas...its a team made up of soft offense first minded individuals. You cannot win hockey games consistently with this lineup. Never. Its a horrible arrangement of like minded players. Look at the D...with the exception of Fraser...they all play the same type of game. Similar in so many respects. None of them are particularly tough...Phaneuf very much included. Its good that Liles was shown the door..not sure how good Gleason is but at least he isnt afraid to go into corners and smash some heads.

I laugh at Burke worshippers. The guy hasn't got a clue on how to build a winning team..not a clue. Watch what the fool does in Calgary. He is a butcher.

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Old
01-07-2014, 11:33 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
This thread is absolutely hilarious. Pure comedy gold.
Fits perfectly with the sad sack Leafs. Pure comedic gold.

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Old
01-07-2014, 12:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Fits perfectly with the sad sack Leafs. Pure comedic gold.
Nothing sad sack about this team, they'll be fine

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01-07-2014, 01:17 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
Nothing sad sack about this team, they'll be fine
fine isn't good enough for me I expect great, and this Core imo will never be great.

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01-07-2014, 01:31 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
Trade
Phil Kessel -- Get rid of him now while his trade value is high, he's not a player you win with. Doesn't do anything worthwhile other then score goals. He is a problem on our top line because he is poor defensively, doesn't hit and go into the corners and shys away from contact. Probably the softest player in the league. I don't want him on this team at 8 million dollars just shooting pucks
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Kessel is one of the best wingers in the league, his value is almost equal to Mackinnon alone.
I'm interested in how you rationalize these seemingly opposing views of the same player.

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Old
01-07-2014, 01:50 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by ECanuck View Post
Colorado GM says "yeah that's a nice cake. This one that's baking over here is worth waiting for."
I don't disagree. Except one or two players arent the "cake". The team is the cake. They are simply the ingredients.

That, and you gotta hope your other "cakes" don't go stale while you wait.

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Old
01-07-2014, 02:00 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Wheels View Post
You couldn't get MacKinnon for Kessel, Bozak and a 1st coming from Toronto, let alone geting MacKinnon and a 1st for Kessel and Bozak. Why would Colorado do this?
Yup. And you'd never be able to get Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin, either... Or, Franson for Lebda and Slaney, even with Lomabardi thrown in...wait, what?

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01-07-2014, 02:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Yup. And you'd never be able to get Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin, either... Or, Franson for Lebda and Slaney, even with Lomabardi thrown in...wait, what?
You mean people thought Lupul was great before we traded for him? I don't remember it happening like that.

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Old
01-07-2014, 02:24 PM
  #137
Durkin67
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
You mean people thought Lupul was great before we traded for him? I don't remember it happening like that.

Hardly the point. He was a bit of gamble, agreed, but Gards was a highly sought future blue chipper. Beauch was an aging underachiever. It's about team needs. Right now, COL needs MATURITY. It's been documented that they struggle with maintaining a pro attitude. They are also deep as hell down the middle.

Deals that appear askew, but actually end up reaping rewards happen regularly. We dont know what any NHL would be comfortable accepting in his effort to better his team. No point in debating opinion...

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01-07-2014, 02:34 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Yup. And you'd never be able to get Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin, either... Or, Franson for Lebda and Slaney, even with Lomabardi thrown in...wait, what?
You're comparing trading for a scrap-heap Lupul and a decent (but not A-list) prospect in Gardiner to trading for an 18 year old who has 28 points in 42 NHL games in the year after being the #1 pick in the draft? For real?

Franson was a salary dump - hence Lombardi.

Why would Colorado consider trading Nathan MacKinnon on an ELC when he's already one of their best players? He's probably one of the 10-15 most valuable commodities in the league. They're going to trade him for Kessel and Bozak and take on an additional ~$9 million in salary (if MacKinnon maxes out his bonuses)?

The only comparable asset to be traded in the recent past would be the Bruins trading Seguin...a trade I am pretty sure they would undo in a heartbeat if the could, unless they really love Reilly Smith.

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Old
01-07-2014, 03:21 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Yup. And you'd never be able to get Gardiner and Lupul for Beauchemin, either... Or, Franson for Lebda and Slaney, even with Lomabardi thrown in...wait, what?
I'm still reeling over having to include our first to trade Liles

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Old
01-07-2014, 03:22 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
fine isn't good enough for me I expect great, and this Core imo will never be great.
Well, great doesnt happen overnight. And IMO you are wrong.

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Old
01-07-2014, 03:31 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
Well, great doesnt happen overnight. And IMO you are wrong.
most experts agree this core wont ever be great ....if catostrophic happens and we miss the playoff i predict rogers/bell blows it all up

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01-07-2014, 04:01 PM
  #142
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most experts agree this core wont ever be great ....if catostrophic happens and we miss the playoff i predict rogers/bell blows it all up
Management wont cut off a rebuild that isn't finished.

Our defense needs a lot of work(through prospects trades etc.) including a top 4 d-man at least.

Our forward core needs another two-way winger or centre.

I'm fine with our core, but the supporting players have barely been up to par until maybe last season, and we're still a bit one-dimensional in many areas.

We're a bubble team that is growing, like everyone said before the off-season, I dont know why everyone is acting dissapointed at our inconsistencies.

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Old
01-07-2014, 04:05 PM
  #143
blue82
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gleason is the only untouchable on this roster

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01-07-2014, 04:59 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Bluejaysfan View Post
Toews and Kane will have deals worth greater than Kessels deal when they sign their next contracts. Kessel signed his as he was becoming a UFA, Kane and Toews were both RFAs... I would use Rielly for Keith and Dion for Seabrook seeing as their playing styles match that way.
I thought it best to focus on cap hits, that was the real point I was driving at.

We are in tough cap wise against the best.

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01-07-2014, 05:04 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
Are you really going to keep ignoring that Dion and Kessel's contracts we're signed at different times than Keith and Kane?

Come on.
I'm trying to show what we are up against, when comparing cap hit bang/buck.

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01-07-2014, 05:08 PM
  #146
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Keep - players
Fire - coach
Yessss

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Old
01-07-2014, 05:12 PM
  #147
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by Wheels View Post
You're comparing trading for a scrap-heap Lupul and a decent (but not A-list) prospect in Gardiner to trading for an 18 year old who has 28 points in 42 NHL games in the year after being the #1 pick in the draft? For real?

Franson was a salary dump - hence Lombardi.

Why would Colorado consider trading Nathan MacKinnon on an ELC when he's already one of their best players? He's probably one of the 10-15 most valuable commodities in the league. They're going to trade him for Kessel and Bozak and take on an additional ~$9 million in salary (if MacKinnon maxes out his bonuses)?

The only comparable asset to be traded in the recent past would be the Bruins trading Seguin...a trade I am pretty sure they would undo in a heartbeat if the could, unless they really love Reilly Smith.
I just can't see the conversation getting off the ground without these names involved Reils,Kadri,Gards not all 3 but maybe 2.

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Old
01-07-2014, 05:20 PM
  #148
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I frankly am lost on how to fix this mess.

Might be best just to sit back and hope

Kadri turns into a Ribero

Reils turns into the next Keith.

Gards turns into the next Letang.

Berny/Reims turns into a top 10 tender.

Holly turns into the next Jason Arnott.

One or two of those kids in the AHL or younger turn into the next "steal pick"?

Gonna need a few of those things to happen.

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