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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

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Old
04-21-2017, 11:11 PM
  #51
TSA0402
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I wouldn't trade Wennberg for Duchene. In fact Wennberg is worth more now Duchene is too close to UFA without elite production its not really that close.

Maybe you dont want to trade MacKinnon, I get it, but that OP isn't terrible value. And that Duchene talk, LOL. Good luck with that.

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Old
04-21-2017, 11:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I wouldn't trade Wennberg for Duchene. In fact Wennberg is worth more now Duchene is too close to UFA without elite production its not really that close.

Maybe you dont want to trade MacKinnon, I get it, but that OP isn't terrible value. And that Duchene talk, LOL. Good luck with that.
It really is terrible value. Quantity for quality usually ends badly for the team giving up the best player unless they're in full rebuild mode and don't care if the player goes on to be awesome somewhere else.

Would you guys trade Werenski to us for Barrie, Soderberg, Beaudin, and a 1st, just because the Avs offered enough lesser pieces? If your answer to that is that Werenski alone is worth more than all of those pieces put together to your franchise, then think hard about what the word "value" means when it comes to trades.

You guys JUST had to give up RyJo to get Jones. Your fanbase should know better than anybody that to get top quality, you need to give it back.

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Old
04-22-2017, 06:53 AM
  #53
TheLegend27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMetal View Post
It really is terrible value. Quantity for quality usually ends badly for the team giving up the best player unless they're in full rebuild mode and don't care if the player goes on to be awesome somewhere else.

Would you guys trade Werenski to us for Barrie, Soderberg, Beaudin, and a 1st, just because the Avs offered enough lesser pieces? If your answer to that is that Werenski alone is worth more than all of those pieces put together to your franchise, then think hard about what the word "value" means when it comes to trades.

You guys JUST had to give up RyJo to get Jones. Your fanbase should know better than anybody that to get top quality, you need to give it back.
The issue is that Wennberg is only marginally inferior to MacKinnon. Would you trade MacKinnon for Monahan, Ferland, and a 1st? Of course you would. So why wouldn't you do the OP?

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04-22-2017, 08:13 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TheLegend27 View Post
The issue is that Wennberg is only marginally inferior to MacKinnon. Would you trade MacKinnon for Monahan, Ferland, and a 1st? Of course you would. So why wouldn't you do the OP?
Wennberg only scored 6 more points than Mack did this year, when Columbus was the 6th highest scoring team in the league, and Colorado was the 6th lowest scoring team since expansion (82 goals difference). I think Mack is more than "marginally" better, all things considered.

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Old
04-22-2017, 09:28 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
Wennberg only scored 6 more points than Mack did this year, when Columbus was the 6th highest scoring team in the league, and Colorado was the 6th lowest scoring team since expansion (82 goals difference). I think Mack is more than "marginally" better, all things considered.
As a cbj fan I can honestly say-WENNBERG is not even on the same planet as McKinnon. To me WENNBERG is more third line center masquerading as a first on a really good team. Mackinnon is an elite player on a terrible team

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Old
04-22-2017, 09:47 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by McMetal View Post
It really is terrible value.
I would argue that it's even value-wise but off by far, far too much needs-wise because the Avs need a better blueliner coming back for MacK if they're going to move him. And all trades are needs based.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
As a cbj fan I can honestly say-WENNBERG is not even on the same planet as McKinnon. To me WENNBERG is more third line center masquerading as a first on a really good team. Mackinnon is an elite player on a terrible team
That's going a little too far in the opposite direction.

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04-22-2017, 09:51 AM
  #57
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That's going a little too far in the opposite direction.
I just don't see top line potential in wenny. Never have. He doesn't have the mindset anyway

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04-22-2017, 10:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by McMetal View Post
It really is terrible value. Quantity for quality usually ends badly for the team giving up the best player unless they're in full rebuild mode and don't care if the player goes on to be awesome somewhere else.

Would you guys trade Werenski to us for Barrie, Soderberg, Beaudin, and a 1st, just because the Avs offered enough lesser pieces? If your answer to that is that Werenski alone is worth more than all of those pieces put together to your franchise, then think hard about what the word "value" means when it comes to trades.

You guys JUST had to give up RyJo to get Jones. Your fanbase should know better than anybody that to get top quality, you need to give it back.
I fail to see how the original offer of a 22-year-old first line center, a 23-year-old defenseman, and a 1st-round pick are even on the same planet as one involving a 19-year-old defenseman on an ELC for a 25-year-old defenseman, a 30-year-old winger on one of the worst contracts in the league, a coin flip of a prospect, and a 1st. Unless that's this year's first, guaranteed to be #1 overall, then these aren't even in the same realm, let alone a "how would you guys feel..." scenario.

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Old
04-22-2017, 10:48 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
MacKinnon is our 21 year old 1C. Why would we consider trading him for anything less than our ideal return? We have no issues keeping MacKinnon if no one gives us what we want for him.
You shouldn't trade him period but if you do you should get a good return. A 19 year old top pairing defenseman just happens to be too much. Werenski has more value.

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04-22-2017, 11:06 AM
  #60
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I just don't see top line potential in wenny. Never have. He doesn't have the mindset anyway
That's fair (altho I disagree). I objected because you called him a #3C.

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Old
04-22-2017, 11:21 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TBC View Post
You shouldn't trade him period but if you do you should get a good return. A 19 year old top pairing defenseman just happens to be too much. Werenski has more value.
I agree. I wouldn't trade Werenski if I had him, either. High talent guys are rare, so trading them doesn't make a lot of sense unless there are other issues. I think the Jackets would be better served going after someone a tier down from Mack (Duchene?), or hoping PLD develops into a 1C.

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Old
04-22-2017, 12:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I fail to see how the original offer of a 22-year-old first line center, a 23-year-old defenseman, and a 1st-round pick are even on the same planet as one involving a 19-year-old defenseman on an ELC for a 25-year-old defenseman, a 30-year-old winger on one of the worst contracts in the league, a coin flip of a prospect, and a 1st. Unless that's this year's first, guaranteed to be #1 overall, then these aren't even in the same realm, let alone a "how would you guys feel..." scenario.
Wennberg is, at best, a low-end 1C, and probably more like a 2C on a team with good center depth. Murray is a middle pair defenseman who never lived up to his hype, and your first is mid-round in a weaker draft. I'm not excited enough about any of those pieces to move our franchise center.

My point was that just throwing a bunch of lesser pieces at a team and expecting them to love the offer just because it's a lot of things is fallacious. Top end talent in a trade needs top end talent coming back. And no, Wennberg and Murray don't count.

For trades involving star players for quantity, the team giving up the best player usually loses the trade unless it is a massive overpayment coming back.


Last edited by McMetal: 04-22-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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Old
04-22-2017, 12:46 PM
  #63
nickdawg95
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mackinnon still haven't past his rookie season, col fans seriously overrate him

his best days are behind him

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Old
04-22-2017, 01:12 PM
  #64
IWantSakicAsMyGM
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Originally Posted by nickdawg95 View Post
mackinnon still haven't past his rookie season, col fans seriously overrate him

his best days are behind him
Why would any team want to keep a guy who just led them in scoring by 23% over 2nd place. He's a bum and we should dump him for scraps before he drags everyone down to his level, right?

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Old
04-22-2017, 03:25 PM
  #65
strictlyrandy
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Originally Posted by TheLegend27 View Post
The issue is that Wennberg is only marginally inferior to MacKinnon. Would you trade MacKinnon for Monahan, Ferland, and a 1st? Of course you would. So why wouldn't you do the OP?
I wouldn't trade MacK for that....

The OP doesn't make sense for the Avs.

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Old
04-22-2017, 06:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by nickdawg95 View Post
mackinnon still haven't past his rookie season, col fans seriously overrate him

his best days are behind him
Brilliant thought only surpassed by this perfect execution.

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Old
04-22-2017, 06:51 PM
  #67
TheLegend27
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Brilliant thought only surpassed by this perfect execution.
It's nickdawg what do you expect?

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Old
04-25-2017, 03:20 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
i'd want pld and murray for duchene, but i'm guessing that won't be a productive conversation here. How about:

Murray-milano-1st
sold!

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Old
04-25-2017, 03:29 PM
  #69
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The issue is that Wennberg is only marginally inferior to MacKinnon.

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Old
04-25-2017, 05:34 PM
  #70
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So how did we move from Duchene to cbj to Mack coming This way? It just seems weird that if we can't agree on value for a guy they are willing to let go that we would be able to get an untouchable.

I'm still all for a Murray+ for Duchene deal but that's been going on circles for months. The Murray+ Milano+ 1st offer I saw on this page works for us because the wings are overflowing here. But I'm not sure if a Avs fan mentioned that or not.

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