I saw one flash from him. He got the puck with space and attacked the d down the left wing. He made a quick little stutter step to the outside and nearly beat the guy, lost the puck on a bad hop. Then a few seconds later took the puck to the net for a quick shot. I don't think he lacks speed at all, just like most big men it's north south speed with not a lot of lateral mobility or quick twitch starts and stops. When he got it in gear it was impressive, and he was fine after the first stride.
Gonna stick with penner thing for a bit because that's kinda what he looked like. That's how penner skates. He was smart around the net. I wonder if he should be a center as the game im describing is more of a power winger game, though he's solid on draws. Once he's comfortable Id like to see him with staal. What we don't know is how good his shot is and how soft the hands around the net are. They looked pretty good but whether or not he finishes anything will tell how we use him. With staal and sutter both being straight forward speed guys it would be nice to have a more mobile guy to add to the mix at center, and we need size in the wing. It's just a very quick first impression but like I said he may be a good wing.
Regardless I thought it was a good first impression. He looked to make contact and be a big guy, he likes to go to the net, he is a handful when he is balanced, his head was up. All good signs. I would think he's an obvious roster spot for next year, as he brings some skill with desperately needed size that none of the ahl guys bring. Those guys most likely lost another spot to him, and till we see more to suggest otherwise I'd have him over bowman. I'm still curious to see I there isnt a role here for Samson.
Dalpe and boychuk are falling off the charts. I'm finally willing to concede boychuk is in jeopardy. I'm not convinced he has been given a fair chance, nor am I convinced he lacks what it takes, but now the competition is such that he, (and dalpe at this point) needs to aggressively beat some people out. Rask is coming too.
With welsh size and at least adequate skill I think he is almost a sure thing for a one way contract and a roster spot.
Last edited by bleedgreen: 04-08-2012 at 10:57 AM.
the game im describing is more of a power winger game, though he's solid on draws. it would be nice to have a more mobile guy to add to the mix at center, and we need size in the wing.
This is exactly what I'm seeing too, and exactly the reservations I have with using any sort of indelible ink putting his name in the center position. If Sutter weren't already there, then yeah, maybe. With Staal and Sutter there, I want to see someone more of the ilk of Rask...based on the little that I know of his game, which seems to be more skill- and speed-based.
And I know you it's your preference to move Sutter to the wing, but I just don't see the organization siding with you on that one, even with the addition of Welsh. I would like to see them make a choice between the two, though, and go with a more dynamic playmaker at the #2 spot.
Agreed. I'd love to see a Derek Roy type as the second center with a power center in the third spot.
Sutter is such a natural winger. I know I'm a broken record about it but both he and now welsh (merely on first glance, I know) would give us what we are looking for on wing. Sutter has awesome outside speed, forechecking well, great along the boards, and is a solid but unspectacular passer. That's a winger, and one we are short in when you factor in the size. We always want staal to have a winger, well sutter and now maybe welsh could be perfect. Staal likes having another big body out there with him I think.
I know it'll never happen, we love sutter at center. We like size down the middle, and I totally agree with the philosophy of having your best players be centers.
And for the record, skinner is a center to me. Top end lateral mobility making him dangerous on both sides and the middle, great vision with his head up (unless he is deking when he shouldn't be), and he is more the guy you want jumping on the loose puck created by someone else's forecheck, as compared to being the guy taking himself out of the play creating that turn over. I know he hasn't bothered learning d yet, and doesnt take face offs well but those things are taught. We have to be willing to teach him and he has to want to learn.
Just my two cents. I assume skinner will stay at wing and sutter/welsh will be kept at center. Just saying. Sutter is young linden. Was always a better winger but they liked how smart he was and with his size they made him play center.
I also agree with Bleed and would like to see Sutter on the wing with Staal. He has the speed to compliment Staal, has under-rated playmaking ability, smart play along the boards, etc. He also would "help" that line with defensive zone coverage.
I know we'll never see it, but I do think he'd thrive in that role.
I wasn't able to watch Welsh last night but in his interview, he must have commented about learning from two great 2-way centers about 5 times. Seems to me that either he really feels that's where he's best or the organization told him that's where he's going to play.
One of our biggest needs for a while now has been a competent 2nd line centre. I think it's much too soon to pencil Welsh into that spot. Who knows, he could surprise me and fill it but I think more than likely we'd be setting ourselves up for disappointment.
I honestly couldn't tell much at all about Welsh's game. He was a much better skater than I anticipated for someone his size. He didn't look out of place anymore than any of the other rookies we've had. It's nice to have another option next season though.
One of our biggest needs for a while now has been a competent 2nd line centre. I think it's much too soon to pencil Welsh into that spot. Who knows, he could surprise me and fill it but I think more than likely we'd be setting ourselves up for disappointment.
Agreed. Relying on a guy with 1 professional game under his belt to be point racking 2nd line center is like giving up on the season before it has even started.
I thought he looked good, but both his penalties were bad snap reactions to getting burned on a play. Like most rookies, he needs to get used to the speed of the NHL.
By JRs talk yesterday it seems he has Welsh penciled in at #3C if he earns it in camp. It sounded to me like they want to move Sutter up to #2C.
I was thinking along those lines in the offseason thread as well. Even if he struggles as the 3C, Muller can always slide Jokinen in there temporarily or move Brent up for a game or two until the team figures out what they want to do.
I also agree with the others on it being risky to assume him as a 2C. There have been a few times over the past few years where many of us fans pencil guys in that don't pan out as expected (Boychuk on the top line a couple years ago, Dalpe on the 2nd line last year, McBain as a top 4 guy after his first 14 games, etc....).
I thought he looked good, but both his penalties were bad snap reactions to getting burned on a play. Like most rookies, he needs to get used to the speed of the NHL.
Can you elaborate on how his second penalty was a reaction to getting burned on a play?
Can you elaborate on how his second penalty was a reaction to getting burned on a play?
Even his first penalty I'd question that. Welsh went to make a hit, caught the Florida player off balance, Florida player went down and Welsh gets a tripping call. Hardly a reactionary penalty.
So I tweeted Hockey Prospectus scout Corey Pronman asking about Welsh's NHL readiness and upside. He said he's NHL ready but not sure if he's ready to score.
In other words, no, we can definitely not rely on him to slot in at #2 center.
Most likely scenario is Sutter at #2, Welsh or Brent at #3, and I'd have no problem with that. Not the greatest center depth, but gives Rask a bit more time to develop into what we need him to.
And there's always the option of Skinner at center if his defensive game comes around, even though his lack of defensive acumen is the biggest reason I would prefer he stay a winger.
I don't think it's definite that Welsh can't score, either. But no-one should expect him to be The Answer next year. I'd rather put Welsh there than Skinner, certainly. Welsh is dominant in faceoffs and a strong two-way player from what I've heard (not that he'd be counted on to win any important draws or shut down any opposing lines playing on the second line)
