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Are the current Bruins(2008-2013) comparable to the 1995-2003 Devils?

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06-10-2013, 04:40 PM
  #26
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by MarkusNaslund19 View Post
I suspect you haven't seen much of Seidenberg. He's a fantastic defenseman. Infinitely more valuable than the likes of McQuaid or Boychuk (who are good in their own right).
I see too many boneheaded plays out of Seidenberg, personally. I've probably sold him a little short though, he was pretty solid in the Cup run. Much less so this year. I prefer McQuaid's zero-incident defensive game, fits in better with that team.

I can't call Ference Daneyko, unless we're talking 2003 Daneyko. Ference getting injured was probably a blessing in disguise for Boston as Krug and Bartkowski have both performed better. Ference has been an unmitigated disaster this season. His mistakes were just infrequent enough for him to be of value in previous seasons.

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06-10-2013, 04:47 PM
  #27
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McQuaid plays almost exclusively against other teams' third and fourth lines. That's an easy way to look better than a guy playing against first and second liners.

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06-10-2013, 05:41 PM
  #28
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I see too many boneheaded plays out of Seidenberg, personally. I've probably sold him a little short though, he was pretty solid in the Cup run. Much less so this year. I prefer McQuaid's zero-incident defensive game, fits in better with that team.

I can't call Ference Daneyko, unless we're talking 2003 Daneyko. Ference getting injured was probably a blessing in disguise for Boston as Krug and Bartkowski have both performed better. Ference has been an unmitigated disaster this season. His mistakes were just infrequent enough for him to be of value in previous seasons.
And yet there was no question that once healthy, Ference was in the lineup and Bartkowski was out.

Seidenberg & Ference step it up in the playoffs.

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06-10-2013, 06:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Seidenberg & Ference step it up in the playoffs.
You ever noticed the chassis on Seidenbergs' skates Mr.Bonvie? What kind of freak show is that? Look's like he's out there on Rollerblades. System called 'T' Blades. Supposedly helps you to glide better, make tighter turns. Extremely noisy. Here ya comin from a mile off.

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06-10-2013, 06:12 PM
  #30
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
You ever noticed the chassis on Seidenbergs' skates Mr.Bonvie? What kind of freak show is that? Look's like he's out there on Rollerblades. System called 'T' Blades. Supposedly helps you to glide better, make tighter turns. Extremely noisy. Here ya comin from a mile off.
Probably helps him playing the right side as a lefthand shot.

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06-10-2013, 07:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I can't call Ference Daneyko, unless we're talking 2003 Daneyko. Ference getting injured was probably a blessing in disguise for Boston as Krug and Bartkowski have both performed better. Ference has been an unmitigated disaster this season. His mistakes were just infrequent enough for him to be of value in previous seasons.
Ference is not as good of a defenseman as Daneyko, and plays a much different game, but he fills comparable niche in terms of eating meaningful bottom-4 minutes night in and night out. And more important (in both cases) is the role they play off the ice as the "old guard' of the team, handling media and leadership issues when called upon.

I agree that Ference is often a mess, but you look around the league at the 4th or 5th best defensemen on most teams and he's not really that bad in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
You ever noticed the chassis on Seidenbergs' skates Mr.Bonvie? What kind of freak show is that? Look's like he's out there on Rollerblades. System called 'T' Blades. Supposedly helps you to glide better, make tighter turns. Extremely noisy. Here ya comin from a mile off.
From what I've heard, the guys that use them swear by 'em. They make it easy to swap out your blades for a fresh cut -- saw a guy do it in the locker room once, 5 minutes tops for a brand new blade.

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06-11-2013, 12:05 PM
  #32
Killion
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
From what I've heard, the guys that use them swear by 'em. They make it easy to swap out your blades for a fresh cut -- saw a guy do it in the locker room once, 5 minutes tops for a brand new blade.
Interesting. Is it an aftermarket accessory? Like you buy a pair of Bauers & then take them into the shop for conversion or are they offered off the shelf through Bauer or whomever instead of the standard model chassis with a hike in price-point?... though mebbe this belongs on The Rink huh?

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06-11-2013, 12:18 PM
  #33
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Interesting. Is it an aftermarket accessory? Like you buy a pair of Bauers & then take them into the shop for conversion or are they offered off the shelf through Bauer or whomever instead of the standard model chassis with a hike in price-point?... though mebbe this belongs on The Rink huh?
Pretty sure they're offered off the shelf that way. Aftermarket conversion is an interesting idea though... opportunity knocks!

(I'm sure the people on the Rink forum would know waaay more about this than me)

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06-11-2013, 07:03 PM
  #34
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
And yet there was no question that once healthy, Ference was in the lineup and Bartkowski was out.

Seidenberg & Ference step it up in the playoffs.
Has Claude Julien ever sat a veteran over a young player though? I mean, how on earth did Dougie Hamilton lose his starting position at the end of the season? He was great all season in any games I witnessed (did I miraculously miss all the bad ones?), but saw himself benched in favour of Wade Redden of all people, based on nothing more than year of birth if you ask me.

For the most part, I agree that if a coach is playing a certain guy over another, there's a good reason for it. But with Julien specifically, a veteran has to be abominably bad before he'll even consider giving his spot to a rookie. If it were up to me, Bartkowski would be on the ice before Ference at this point in Andrew's career.

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06-11-2013, 07:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
But with Julien specifically, a veteran has to be abominably bad before he'll even consider giving his spot to a rookie. If it were up to me, Bartkowski would be on the ice before Ference at this point in Andrew's career.
I dont know. Julien has done pretty well with winning.

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06-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #36
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We'll wait and see first. The have one Cup so far, the Devils had three plus a very close one in 2001 with a trip to the final. In total, 4 trips to the final. This is Boston's 2nd. I was going to bring up the collapse in 2010, which was awful, but then again the Devils missed the playoffs entirely in 1996 so it evens out.

I like Boston's offense better. Top to bottom, they are the team I would hate to defend more. Like the Devils, their forwards are responsible at all ends of the ice. Defensively and in net it is the Devils, but from the defense end it is close at least. Hard to find anyone unseating Brodeur over that time.

I think the Bruins are tougher as well. Hardly anyone in NHL history is tougher than Scott Stevens, but then you've got Chara to deal with on the other side. Plus the Bruins forwards are more intimidating no doubt.

People brought up Niedermayer, yeah, he had an offensive "side" to him. I use that in brackets because anyone that watched the Devils at that time knows there was so much more Niedermayer could have done for that team. Stevens was easily the main man on defense and it wasn't even a question. Niedermayer didn't develop until 2003 or so where we thought he should be. I don't think Chara moves the puck any less than Niedermayer did in that era. Honestly, he showed up in glimpses at times.

But the bottom line is results, which is what seperates a great team from a pretender. The Devils won against the field. You win three Cups in 8 years that's good. You make the Cup finals three years out of 4 and that's good too. The Bruins have to beat a very difficult Hawks team in this final before we can even flirt with the idea of a dynasty. That won't be easy, as Chicago knows how to win just as much. But time will tell, the Bruins seem intent on keeping this core together, and you have to give management the nod there. Imagine, Harry Sinden leaves the GM post and the team BECOMES more organized!

I just don't like the off years for the Devils though. That's all I'll say.

1995 - Cup
1996 - no playoffs
1997 - 2nd round exit
1998 - 1st round exit
1999 - 1st round exit
2000 - Cup
2001 - Cup finalists
2002 - 1st round exit
2003 - Cup

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06-12-2013, 06:23 PM
  #37
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Has Claude Julien ever sat a veteran over a young player though? I mean, how on earth did Dougie Hamilton lose his starting position at the end of the season? He was great all season in any games I witnessed (did I miraculously miss all the bad ones?), but saw himself benched in favour of Wade Redden of all people, based on nothing more than year of birth if you ask me.

For the most part, I agree that if a coach is playing a certain guy over another, there's a good reason for it. But with Julien specifically, a veteran has to be abominably bad before he'll even consider giving his spot to a rookie. If it were up to me, Bartkowski would be on the ice before Ference at this point in Andrew's career.
Based on his 7 games in the playoffs as opposed to Ference's 114?

Change your 2nd pair Dman coming off a series where the Pens scored 2 goals in 4 games?

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06-13-2013, 04:35 AM
  #38
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Based on his 7 games in the playoffs as opposed to Ference's 114?

Change your 2nd pair Dman coming off a series where the Pens scored 2 goals in 4 games?
You're only as good as your last game. Ference has sucked this season in the decent amount of Bruins games that I watched, Bartkowski looked solid in the limited action he's seen. Lo and behold, Ference was on the ice for the 2nd and 3rd goals against tonight that let Chicago tie the game.

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06-13-2013, 04:38 AM
  #39
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McQuaid plays almost exclusively against other teams' third and fourth lines. That's an easy way to look better than a guy playing against first and second liners.
This is true, but I've never seen McQuaid given significant minutes against quality opposition to form an opinion of how he'd do against better opponents. I pretty much agree that he's a prototypical #5 defenseman, which sort of makes my point that I don't think Boston's defensive personnel are anything great as far as Cup winning teams go. I think it's their two outstanding centermen that drive the team at both ends of the ice.

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06-13-2013, 07:18 AM
  #40
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You're only as good as your last game. Ference has sucked this season in the decent amount of Bruins games that I watched, Bartkowski looked solid in the limited action he's seen. Lo and behold, Ference was on the ice for the 2nd and 3rd goals against tonight that let Chicago tie the game.
I don't believe you when you say you have watched Bruins games this year because you said "I'll take Adam McQuaid over Dennis Seidenberg", which is asinine even by the standards of this website.

Hamilton hit a wall. That's why he's not playing. He had one pretty good game in trying circumstances vs Toronto (when Seidenberg was hurt in game 7 vs TOR) but other than that, he's been lousy. But this is HF, where young player > experienced player every time regardless of how well they actually play.

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06-13-2013, 09:24 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
We'll wait and see first. The have one Cup so far, the Devils had three plus a very close one in 2001 with a trip to the final. In total, 4 trips to the final. This is Boston's 2nd. I was going to bring up the collapse in 2010, which was awful, but then again the Devils missed the playoffs entirely in 1996 so it evens out.

I like Boston's offense better. Top to bottom, they are the team I would hate to defend more. Like the Devils, their forwards are responsible at all ends of the ice. Defensively and in net it is the Devils, but from the defense end it is close at least. Hard to find anyone unseating Brodeur over that time.

I think the Bruins are tougher as well. Hardly anyone in NHL history is tougher than Scott Stevens, but then you've got Chara to deal with on the other side. Plus the Bruins forwards are more intimidating no doubt.

People brought up Niedermayer, yeah, he had an offensive "side" to him. I use that in brackets because anyone that watched the Devils at that time knows there was so much more Niedermayer could have done for that team. Stevens was easily the main man on defense and it wasn't even a question. Niedermayer didn't develop until 2003 or so where we thought he should be. I don't think Chara moves the puck any less than Niedermayer did in that era. Honestly, he showed up in glimpses at times.

But the bottom line is results, which is what seperates a great team from a pretender. The Devils won against the field. You win three Cups in 8 years that's good. You make the Cup finals three years out of 4 and that's good too. The Bruins have to beat a very difficult Hawks team in this final before we can even flirt with the idea of a dynasty. That won't be easy, as Chicago knows how to win just as much. But time will tell, the Bruins seem intent on keeping this core together, and you have to give management the nod there. Imagine, Harry Sinden leaves the GM post and the team BECOMES more organized!

I just don't like the off years for the Devils though. That's all I'll say.

1995 - Cup
1996 - no playoffs
1997 - 2nd round exit
1998 - 1st round exit
1999 - 1st round exit
2000 - Cup
2001 - Cup finalists
2002 - 1st round exit
2003 - Cup
Are Boston's off years that much better? Sure they don't have the year out of the dance the Devils do, but you have that loss to a Hurricanes team with three relevant players, then the Philly implosion, and a loss to the Capitals where an all-around mediocre team methodically grinded out an ugly 7 game trapfest.

I'm also not sure if I'd take the Krejci line over the A line. Boston might have a better offense over this entire stretch, but I think NJ has a decent argument for the higher offensive peak of the two.

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06-13-2013, 03:29 PM
  #42
Big Phil
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Are Boston's off years that much better? Sure they don't have the year out of the dance the Devils do, but you have that loss to a Hurricanes team with three relevant players, then the Philly implosion, and a loss to the Capitals where an all-around mediocre team methodically grinded out an ugly 7 game trapfest.

I'm also not sure if I'd take the Krejci line over the A line. Boston might have a better offense over this entire stretch, but I think NJ has a decent argument for the higher offensive peak of the two.
No, Boston's off years aren't really any better. Two times losing Game 7 in overtime (2009, 2012) and then there's the 2010 debacle. New Jersey just seems to have a less than stellar resume in the "off" years than say Detroit or Colorado of that era.

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06-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #43
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1995 - Cup
1996 - no playoffs
1997 - 2nd round exit
1998 - 1st round exit
1999 - 1st round exit
2000 - Cup
2001 - Cup finalists
2002 - 1st round exit
2003 - Cup
The 1996-1998 period was characterized by lack of scoring. Many Devils fans thought Jacques Lemaire missed Larry Robinson who was a very active assistant coach for the 1995 Cup win. After 1995, whenever the team had adversity, Lemaire's solution was to "tighten up defensively," often stifling his own team's offense in the process. The team also lacked the natural firepower of Detroit and Colorado, though they did pick up Doug Gilmour at the 1997 trade deadline.

1996: 25th of 26 teams in regular season scoring. Very unbalanced conferences, despite having such trouble scoring, the Devils' point total would have had them 4th in the West, but they were only 9th in the east.

1997: Rangers surprised Lemaire by countering the Devils' trap with a trap of their own and he never adjusted. Devils also had a couple of goals called back due to the stupid "foot in the crease rule" at the time. Devils lost in 5 games, scoring only 5 goals in the 5 games. The major injury to Dave Andreychuk in the meaningless last game of the regular season may have been a factor.

1998: Devils scored 12 goals in a 6-game round 1 loss, which was actually very poor since Ottawa was not a great defensive team. By this point, Lemaire was getting butchered in the press for giving his checking forwards as much or more ice time as his scoring forwards, even when the team was trailing late in a game. He resigned at the end of the season. Also, this was the only good playoff series of Alexei Yashin's career.

1999: Combination a bad series by Brodeur and an amazing series by Jagr. This was the best playoff series of Jagr's career IMO, the one and only time he really put his team on his back and carried them to victory. Brodeur probably had the worst series of his career until the Sean Avery series.

2002: 11 goals in 6 games, but only scored 4 goals in the 4 games the team lost. This team was in disarray after Larry Robinson had completely lost them during the regular season and was fired late. The replacement, Kevin Constantine was just as obsessed with defense as Lemaire, but just wasn't as good a coach. Also, Scott Gomez's injury really hurt. I remember going to a punk show in NJ that spring and the tip jar at the T-shirt stand was labeled "put money here to buy Scott Gomez a new hand."

So the short version:
  • 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2002 were because of lack of scoring.
  • 1999 was basically Jagr having the series of his life and Brodeur not playing up to his usual standards.


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06-13-2013, 04:31 PM
  #44
Kyle McMahon
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I don't believe you when you say you have watched Bruins games this year because you said "I'll take Adam McQuaid over Dennis Seidenberg", which is asinine even by the standards of this website.

Hamilton hit a wall. That's why he's not playing. He had one pretty good game in trying circumstances vs Toronto (when Seidenberg was hurt in game 7 vs TOR) but other than that, he's been lousy. But this is HF, where young player > experienced player every time regardless of how well they actually play.
I haven't suggested Hamilton be inserted at this point. He got rusty when Julien scratched him repeatedly late in the year in favour of Redden, and it showed when he struggled against Toronto. Bartkowski, Krug, and Redden have all played better in the playoffs than Hamilton.

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06-13-2013, 07:46 PM
  #45
Dennis Bonvie
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You're only as good as your last game. Ference has sucked this season in the decent amount of Bruins games that I watched, Bartkowski looked solid in the limited action he's seen. Lo and behold, Ference was on the ice for the 2nd and 3rd goals against tonight that let Chicago tie the game.
Lo and behold:

Ference was only on the ice for the 3rd goal. 2nd goal was McQuaid & Krug.

Ference played 45:19, more than Chara.

Ference had 10 hits, most on either team, 8 blocked shots, only Seidenberg had more with 9.

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06-15-2013, 02:10 AM
  #46
Kyle McMahon
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Lo and behold:

Ference was only on the ice for the 3rd goal. 2nd goal was McQuaid & Krug.

Ference played 45:19, more than Chara.

Ference had 10 hits, most on either team, 8 blocked shots, only Seidenberg had more with 9.
My mistake then. Nonetheless, doesn't change my opinion of Ference this season.

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06-15-2013, 09:00 AM
  #47
Dennis Bonvie
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My mistake then. Nonetheless, doesn't change my opinion of Ference this season.
I'm not disagreeing with you about Ference's season. It was not pretty.

But once the playoffs started, he's been solid.

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