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NY Islanders Sale Talk Part III (Mod Warnings Post #48, #52)

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07-26-2014, 09:18 AM
  #601
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Illitch's are not paying for all of it. Not even close. The city is paying for over half (58%) of the building and they are giving the Illitch's 100% of the revenues. They are also giving the land (95 yrs rent free) and tax breaks.

If Wang had this deal, he'd have built it. When you factor in the $200M land redevelopment around the new arena, it actually sounds familiar to the lighthouse deal.

None of these owners got to be owners by being saints - they are all sharks. The Illitch's are doing NOTHING out of the goodness of their hearts or love of their hockey fans here. They are the same as Wang, just much, much better at milking their (bankrupt) city.

(FWIW, the drawings look pretty cool.)

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...arena-district
Read the article you posted. The city of Detroit is paying nothing towards the arena. The public funding is coming from the state of Michigan. The city is only putting money towards the entertainment district and doing so through a tax over a 30 year period. Nothing is coming out of the City's general fund for this.

This is what happens when you have an owner who can work well with politicians on the state and local levels.

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07-26-2014, 12:36 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Read the article you posted. The city of Detroit is paying nothing towards the arena. The public funding is coming from the state of Michigan. The city is only putting money towards the entertainment district and doing so through a tax over a 30 year period. Nothing is coming out of the City's general fund for this.

This is what happens when you have an owner who can work well with politicians on the state and local levels.
Your last sentence seems to place the blame on Wang, where I believe the blame is pretty much on both sides.

"This is what happens when you have an owner and state/local politicians who can't and won't work together."

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07-26-2014, 12:53 PM
  #603
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Your last sentence seems to place the blame on Wang, where I believe the blame is pretty much on both sides.

"This is what happens when you have an owner and state/local politicians who can't and won't work together."
one side was willing to negotiate and pleading to do so.....the other was, YES OR NO!"

So the blame is on both sides, but one side has a ton of it, the other....is a **appy government full of louses.

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07-26-2014, 02:27 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Read the article you posted. The city of Detroit is paying nothing towards the arena. The public funding is coming from the state of Michigan. The city is only putting money towards the entertainment district and doing so through a tax over a 30 year period. Nothing is coming out of the City's general fund for this.

This is what happens when you have an owner who can work well with politicians on the state and local levels.
City / state, whatever. Point was the owner is paying for less than half and the public purse is paying over half. Was responding to poster who implied because Det's owner loves the team he was building 600M+ arena with his own cash. He isn't.

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07-26-2014, 03:10 PM
  #605
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City / state, whatever. Point was the owner is paying for less than half and the public purse is paying over half. Was responding to poster who implied because Det's owner loves the team he was building 600M+ arena with his own cash. He isn't.
How much is he funneling into the tax base with the DRW, the Tigers, HIS CASINOS, Little Caesars, etc.?

Kind of important to consider what a "FREE RIDE" he's getting.

Nassau did not consider this hard enough with the NYI.....but they'll just up taxes on everyone with the NVMC revenue gone....


It pays to have character and professionalism. Ilitch gets his project and the Detroit government gets more revenue as well as the Michigan coffers.


And Ilitch and his wife very much love their team and the city. The results show. The improvements on the Joe {non-Ikea} show. The statements of past and present players show. We have a putz as an owner.

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07-26-2014, 06:46 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
How much is he funneling into the tax base with the DRW, the Tigers, HIS CASINOS, Little Caesars, etc.?

Kind of important to consider what a "FREE RIDE" he's getting.

Nassau did not consider this hard enough with the NYI.....but they'll just up taxes on everyone with the NVMC revenue gone....


It pays to have character and professionalism. Ilitch gets his project and the Detroit government gets more revenue as well as the Michigan coffers.


And Ilitch and his wife very much love their team and the city. The results show. The improvements on the Joe {non-Ikea} show. The statements of past and present players show. We have a putz as an owner.
Whatever. You have an ongoing irrational hatred of Wang and he can do no right and everyone else you can use as an example to hold up as a saint vs his sinner you will. Ok. I'm sure CA has put money into the tax base of Long Island as well. Whatever.

The point is all these owners - all of them - try to milk the city/state/Feds of their geographies to get shiny new money making stadiums.

None of them build them for altruistic reasons. Or because they "love" their teams or their fans or their city.

To imply otherwise about any of them is foolish. To try to make Wang seem worse then others (in this respect only) is disingenuous.

That's all I'm saying.

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07-26-2014, 09:34 PM
  #607
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Do you want to know the true problem with Long Island and NY in general, TAXES. If the tax base was not as high, Wang would have got his stadium, that should have been built during the late 80s early 90s. The citizens of LI are strapped and they push on their politicians to vote against spending. Wang had a good idea but for LI, not so much or at least 15 years too late.

I am no Wang supporter, as many here are aware, but the issue lays squarely on the politicians, citizens and SMG, period.

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07-26-2014, 10:09 PM
  #608
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Do you want to know the true problem with Long Island and NY in general, TAXES. If the tax base was not as high, Wang would have got his stadium, that should have been built during the late 80s early 90s. The citizens of LI are strapped and they push on their politicians to vote against spending. Wang had a good idea but for LI, not so much or at least 15 years too late.

I am no Wang supporter, as many here are aware, but the issue lays squarely on the politicians, citizens and SMG, period.

Strome...

Just a head's up...You will be getting a stern reply from OlTimeHockey within the next 24 hours.

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Yesterday, 12:23 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Strome18 View Post
Do you want to know the true problem with Long Island and NY in general, TAXES. If the tax base was not as high, Wang would have got his stadium, that should have been built during the late 80s early 90s. The citizens of LI are strapped and they push on their politicians to vote against spending. Wang had a good idea but for LI, not so much or at least 15 years too late.

I am no Wang supporter, as many here are aware, but the issue lays squarely on the politicians, citizens and SMG, period.
The taxes Long Islanders pay is outrageous. Personally I don't see how/why anybody puts up with it.

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Yesterday, 12:47 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Strome18 View Post
Do you want to know the true problem with Long Island and NY in general, TAXES. If the tax base was not as high, Wang would have got his stadium, that should have been built during the late 80s early 90s. The citizens of LI are strapped and they push on their politicians to vote against spending. Wang had a good idea but for LI, not so much or at least 15 years too late.

I am no Wang supporter, as many here are aware, but the issue lays squarely on the politicians, citizens and SMG, period.


Yes what you say is true, taxes are ridiculous there. But you do realize without the Isles taxes are going up or services get cut right? Plus, the bond was mostly being repaid by Wang and the building revenues. Sure, the shortfall would have been made up by the taxpayers, but that number I am sure is a helluva lot less then not having the Isles there at all.

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Yesterday, 01:21 PM
  #611
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There was also the issue of overdevelopment; being old enough to remember when taking a ride out to eastern Suffolk as a kid meant passing one Farm after another on two lane roads, much of Nassau now reminds one of the City, and the Borough Queens I grew up in. The Town of Hempstead has been mismanaged for longer than I'm on this planet. I hate the Politicians running the TOH but there actually were legitimate concerns with overdevelopment. The infrastructure, sewers, and traffic concerns of opponents were real. The plan of upgrading the LIRR line through Garden City wasn't going to happen with the highly vocal residents of GC in opposition. It was a bad plan and taxpayers votes no to the contrary would not have saved the plan if FIFA would have not allowed it. The County of Nassau is basically bankrupt and unless the State had come in to finance the project it wasn't going to happen.

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Yesterday, 05:39 PM
  #612
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nobody signing in detroit these days...and we coulda said that for the last ten years had the wings not lucked into zetterberg and datsyuk.

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Yesterday, 08:16 PM
  #613
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Can we get back to "Islander's Sale" talk ?

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Yesterday, 09:43 PM
  #614
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Can we get back to "Islander's Sale" talk ?

Would love to, but there is NOTHING to talk about. The topic we're on right now about the Red Wings/Ilitch is just a seat-filler until the next piece of "wang sale news" hits the wire. I just hope that next news comes from McKenzie, Bettman, or wang himself so we don't have 50 posts about the source as opposed to the news.

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Yesterday, 09:46 PM
  #615
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nobody signing in detroit these days...and we coulda said that for the last ten years had the wings not lucked into zetterberg and datsyuk.
Lucked? When you're probably the best team at drafting for 2 decades-there's nothing lucky about it. You make your own luck.

Plus it probably has more to do with how they develop players-which is very overlooked. If Datsyuk/Zetterberg/etc. weren't on the Wings, they may never have even reached the NHL for all we know.

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Today, 01:59 AM
  #616
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Whatever. You have an ongoing irrational hatred of Wang and he can do no right and everyone else you can use as an example to hold up as a saint vs his sinner you will. Ok. I'm sure CA has put money into the tax base of Long Island as well. Whatever.

The point is all these owners - all of them - try to milk the city/state/Feds of their geographies to get shiny new money making stadiums.

None of them build them for altruistic reasons. Or because they "love" their teams or their fans or their city.

To imply otherwise about any of them is foolish. To try to make Wang seem worse then others (in this respect only) is disingenuous.

That's all I'm saying.
What's irrational?

He bilked his shareholders, defrauded them and through his REFUSAL to have ANY electronic communication was able to get away with his 13 month financial calendar until the SEC took his golden parachute away and prosecuted everyone else but him - all had paper trails but the ******* who refused to, as policy dictated, have any written connection.

No, why shouldn't I love this guy?

Yes or no? Sit down and shut up! ten and fifteen year deals! MILBURY HAS TO FIRE HIMSELF!!! What's not to love?

I'd pinch his cheeks and serenade him on guitar right now if I could he's such a peach!

Irrational?

How about unblinded.

Now read up on Ilitch and Kings owner Philip Anschutz. GREAT men and not as selfish as some Occupy Toronto demonstrators might suggest. Look at Tampa Bay's efforts with minimal money.

Sorry, Wang being spoken about in the same breath as some other owners would only be as a punchline.

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Today, 02:01 AM
  #617
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Strome...

Just a head's up...You will be getting a stern reply from OlTimeHockey within the next 24 hours.
I just gotta face facts that everybody nowadays has to have A bad guy.....meaning one side of the equation is bad, thus Wang can't be bad like the opponent.

Whatever. We have a guy tied for first with 29 other runners up for bestest/worstest owner, anyway, so he can't be that bad.

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Today, 07:22 AM
  #618
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I just gotta face facts that everybody nowadays has to have A bad guy.....meaning one side of the equation is bad, thus Wang can't be bad like the opponent.

Whatever. We have a guy tied for first with 29 other runners up for bestest/worstest owner, anyway, so he can't be that bad.

Actually think it's so much deeper than that. I think the uninformed/unaware fan defends wang based on two things...
  1. They think he saved the team from moving to another city
  2. Much like an absusive father they can't get rid of, the pain of having to face how horrible he is is too much and instead they try to rationalize some of Wang's behavior as positive.

Is terms of overall human history is wang as bad as Genghis Khan or Hitler...? Of course not. However in the world of business he is just about the worst there is, and deserves ZERO forgiveness or empathy for the way he ran CA and the Islanders. And I don't say this without information...I know many people who worked at CA including people so close to wang that I've been at weddings where wang attended.

Wang is simply the worst...A very bad human being. All I can say is that if you defend him on any level, you just don't have enough information about him.

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Today, 08:25 AM
  #619
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Unfortunately Wang has a lot of reasons to hold onto the team, mainly NeuLion. His company provides the online streaming service for most of the major sports and over 200 professional and college sports programs.

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NeuLion has partnerships with and provides technology and services to over 200 professional and collegiate sports properties and to over 200 international television channels from over 40 countries. NeuLion is one of the largest live streaming companies in the world and ranks consistently as a top US Internet video sports network measured by traffic and total time spent on line according to comScore.
If he gives up the NHL team he loses the 'in' he had with the boys club of sports. There go a lot of connections, future connections and business sales. I wish he would sell already, but there's more here than just the 'He wants to make money off of Brooklyn'.

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Today, 11:20 AM
  #620
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Unfortunately Wang has a lot of reasons to hold onto the team, mainly NeuLion. His company provides the online streaming service for most of the major sports and over 200 professional and college sports programs.



If he gives up the NHL team he loses the 'in' he had with the boys club of sports. There go a lot of connections, future connections and business sales. I wish he would sell already, but there's more here than just the 'He wants to make money off of Brooklyn'.
NeuLion may be a completely seperate entity from the Islanders. Most likely he can sell the Islanders and still own NeuLion.

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Today, 11:21 AM
  #621
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Unfortunately Wang has a lot of reasons to hold onto the team, mainly NeuLion. His company provides the online streaming service for most of the major sports and over 200 professional and college sports programs.



If he gives up the NHL team he loses the 'in' he had with the boys club of sports. There go a lot of connections, future connections and business sales. I wish he would sell already, but there's more here than just the 'He wants to make money off of Brooklyn'.
NeuLion is a struggling, financially unbalanced company majority owned by Wang and his wife. At year end 12/31/13 they showed a negative net worth of ($740,000 USD). Removing intangible assets and goodwill, shareholder deficit is close to ($14,000,000).
It was run cash positive but they do not look financially sound and Wang and investors (mainly Wang) have contributed over $85MM to equity.
It does have a growing customer base but looks to need additional finical support rather than being a source of cash for Wang.

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Today, 11:47 AM
  #622
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NeuLion is a struggling, financially unbalanced company majority owned by Wang and his wife. At year end 12/31/13 they showed a negative net worth of ($740,000 USD). Removing intangible assets and goodwill, shareholder deficit is close to ($14,000,000).
It was run cash positive but they do not look financially sound and Wang and investors (mainly Wang) have contributed over $85MM to equity.
It does have a growing customer base but looks to need additional finical support rather than being a source of cash for Wang.
All the more reason to keep the Islanders which also keeps him 'in the boys club' so to speak, right?

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Today, 01:37 PM
  #623
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Actually think it's so much deeper than that. I think the uninformed/unaware fan defends wang based on two things...
  1. They think he saved the team from moving to another city
  2. Much like an absusive father they can't get rid of, the pain of having to face how horrible he is is too much and instead they try to rationalize some of Wang's behavior as positive.

Is terms of overall human history is wang as bad as Genghis Khan or Hitler...? Of course not. However in the world of business he is just about the worst there is, and deserves ZERO forgiveness or empathy for the way he ran CA and the Islanders. And I don't say this without information...I know many people who worked at CA including people so close to wang that I've been at weddings where wang attended.

Wang is simply the worst...A very bad human being. All I can say is that if you defend him on any level, you just don't have enough information about him.
Or they don't ever want to admit that reality is anything less than sunshine, rainbows and kitten kisses.

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Today, 05:52 PM
  #624
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All the more reason to keep the Islanders which also keeps him 'in the boys club' so to speak, right?
Well that might be one view.
Another could be that Wang has use for cashing out of the Islanders quagmire and recouping his investment and some of his losings.
He is probably losing money on the Sound Tigers also, i do not think they are consolidated with the Islander losses. Might not be a lot, maybe $1-2MM per year, but it doesn't help.

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Today, 06:06 PM
  #625
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Or they don't ever want to admit that reality is anything less than sunshine, rainbows and kitten kisses.
But...but...he kept the team on Long Island (geographically) and he didn't move it to Saskatoon. Doesn't he get a pass for that?

After all, now I can see the team less often because I can't make it in to Brooklyn as much, but I'll eat better when we're at The Barc.

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