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Kobe Bryant Vs. Nicklas Lidström - Who has done more for their team?

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Kobe Bryant 154 74.76%
Nicklas Lidström 52 25.24%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:23 PM
  #76
bambamcam4ever
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
Lbj has wade, bosh, and arguably the greatest 3 point shooter of all time.
Kobe has Howard, Gasol, and maybe the best shooter of all time.

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04-10-2013, 07:24 PM
  #77
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Bryant just due to the nature of basketball. There is no parity and it is so easy for stars to take over games. That being said I think Lidstrom is the better player. I've always found Kobe overrated. He's a pretty good defender and obviously a tremendous scorer, but he doesn't bring much else to the table.

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04-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Kobe has Howard, Gasol, and maybe the best shooter of all time.
And who is this best shooter of all time guy on the lakers?

Howard doesn't even show up every game. He's basically a hit or miss and gasol is a softy.

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04-10-2013, 08:36 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
And who is this best shooter of all time guy on the lakers?

Howard doesn't even show up every game. He's basically a hit or miss and gasol is a softy.
Nash - who has the highest FT% in history, is top 10 in 3 point % while shooting over twice as many 3s as anyone above him and I believe has the highest all-time FG% on long 2-point shots. It's pretty obvious why you haven't noticed him much on the Lakers- he never gets the ball.

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04-10-2013, 11:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
AND, kobe won TWO championships after shaq was gone, and continued to put up the same numbers he did when he was playing with shaq.
No reply to my Lebron comment then?

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04-10-2013, 11:45 PM
  #81
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Dunno about their teams, but Kobe definitely has done more for his league. He was the face of it pretty much until that expensive ring incident.

Lidstrom? Looooow-key.

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04-11-2013, 12:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Nash - who has the highest FT% in history, is top 10 in 3 point % while shooting over twice as many 3s as anyone above him and I believe has the highest all-time FG% on long 2-point shots. It's pretty obvious why you haven't noticed him much on the Lakers- he never gets the ball.
Maybe we don't notice him on the lakers because, um, he's been injured for the majority of the season?

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04-11-2013, 12:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SpeakerForTheDead View Post
No reply to my Lebron comment then?
I don't deny Lebron is great and is the only reason the cavs were good. But I think he and kobe are 2 different players and shouldn't really be compared.
And so what? No reply to my comment?

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04-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Kobe has Howard, Gasol, and maybe the best shooter of all time.
Howard - shoulder injury, missed many games this season
Gasol - tendinitis, plantar fasciitis, concussion, missed over 30 games
Nash- 39 yrs old, fracture leg missed over 7 weeks, now has hamstring injury and hasnt played in 4 games.

I dont care how good of a shooter you are but when you are 39 you are going to regress. Most of these guys are no longer in their prime, kobe, nash, jamison, gasol almost out of his prime. The fact that kobe is carrying his team at age of 34, after 17 nba seasons, multiple olympics and fiba championships is amazing. He is the best scorer in the nba right now and probably is second to michael in terms of creating his own offense. Kobe is now a better teamplayer and people still seemed to be stuck in the time when he had to take all the shots because his team was incapable to do so. I agree that at this point Lebron is a better all around player but that is because lebron is 28, while Kobe is already 34. I want to see lebron to keep his style of play when he is 34.

Also, Lebron brought cleveland to the nba finals and I think that was a great feat but take note that the east has been always weaker than the west. Example, cleveland got swept by San Antonio that year.

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04-11-2013, 02:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HockeySens View Post
Howard - shoulder injury, missed many games this season
Gasol - tendinitis, plantar fasciitis, concussion, missed over 30 games
Nash- 39 yrs old, fracture leg missed over 7 weeks, now has hamstring injury and hasnt played in 4 games.

I dont care how good of a shooter you are but when you are 39 you are going to regress. Most of these guys are no longer in their prime, kobe, nash, jamison, gasol almost out of his prime. The fact that kobe is carrying his team at age of 34, after 17 nba seasons, multiple olympics and fiba championships is amazing. He is the best scorer in the nba right now and probably is second to michael in terms of creating his own offense. Kobe is now a better teamplayer and people still seemed to be stuck in the time when he had to take all the shots because his team was incapable to do so. I agree that at this point Lebron is a better all around player but that is because lebron is 28, while Kobe is already 34. I want to see lebron to keep his style of play when he is 34.

Also, Lebron brought cleveland to the nba finals and I think that was a great feat but take note that the east has been always weaker than the west. Example, cleveland got swept by San Antonio that year.
As good as Kobe is and what he is doing at his age is incredible but the Lakers are still only in 8th place in the West. He's not exactly carrying them to greatness.

Also, Durant is clearly the best scorer in the game not Kobe. Durant has a Fg% of 0.506, a 3Pt% of 0.412, a FT% of 0.907 and is averaging 28.3 PPG.

Whereas Kobe on the season has a FG% of 0.463, 3 PT% of 0.321, a FT% of 0.841 and is averaging 27.3 PPG.

Durant is clearly a better scorer than him.

Also, Lebron brought a Cavs team that had Sasha Pavlovic, Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, an old Zydrunas, and Drew Gooden to the finals.

When Kobe had a comparable team in his prime at the age of 26 with Odom, Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm, they finished 11th in the West.


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04-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
I don't deny Lebron is great and is the only reason the cavs were good. But I think he and kobe are 2 different players and shouldn't really be compared.
And so what? No reply to my comment?
Which comment would you like me to reply to? I stated where I see Kobe in the top-10 and which players I would rank above him. All you said was you would pick Kobe over all of them except Jordan and Magic but you didn't say why.

Also in regards to his "clutchness", there was a good article about this.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...in-crunch-time

Quote:
ESPN Stats & Information's Alok Pattani dug through 15 years of NBA data (see table below) -- Bryant's entire career, regular season and playoffs -- and found that Bryant has attempted 115 shots in the final 24 seconds of a game in which the Lakers were tied or trailed by two or fewer points. He connected on 36, and missed 79 times.
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In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions. And it's not a simple case of every team having a hard time scoring in crunch time. Over Bryant's career, 11 teams have had better crunch-time offenses, led by the Hornets with a shocking 107 points per 100 possessions in crunch time, a huge credit to Chris Paul.
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When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.
And an article comparing Lebron and Kobe in crunch time:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trueho...nclutch-101222

Quote:
Here are the facts: James has posted a mind-boggling 47.2 Player Efficiency Rating while averaging 48.1 points on 45 percent shooting, 10.9 rebounds and 5.6 assists per 40 minutes in the clutch over the past two seasons. Bryant? He checks in at a 37.6 PER, with an average of 44.5 points on 43 percent shooting, 4.3 rebounds and 4.3 assists. Statistically, James outperformed Bryant on the defensive end as well, averaging 1.8 blocks and 2.1 steals. Kobe, on the other hand, has averaged 1.6 steals with no blocks in crunch time.
Quote:
James' teams have outscored opponents by 126 points in his 228 minutes of clutch play, debunking the theory that James is merely a compiler of empty stats; his individual play has coincided with winning basketball. Bryant is another story. Even with far superior teammates than James' former Cavs crew, Bryant has posted a minus-13 plus-minus in his 224 minutes of clutch situations. That is to say, the Lakers have, quite shockingly, been a losing team with Bryant on the floor down the stretch over the past two seasons.


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04-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SpeakerForTheDead View Post
Which comment would you like me to reply to? I stated where I see Kobe in the top-10 and which players I would rank above him. All you said was you would pick Kobe over all of them except Jordan and Magic but you didn't say why.

Also in regards to his "clutchness", there was a good article about this.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...in-crunch-time







And an article comparing Lebron and Kobe in crunch time:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trueho...nclutch-101222
The post where I brought out that kobe has produced the same if not better when shaq left. Also how he's won two championships after shaq was gone.

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04-11-2013, 02:57 PM
  #88
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And it is no fair to compare Lebron, a player in his prime, to a 34 year old. I mean, come on.


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04-11-2013, 03:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
And it is no fair to compare Kenton, a player in his prime, to a 34 year old. I mean, come on.
I get that but that poster said best scorer 'right now'. Not in their respective primes. That just isn't true. Kobe in his prime vs Durant in his prime would be a different discussion for sure.

Again, I'm not saying Kobe is a bad player, I really like him and think he is one of the all-time greats. I just have my reasons for putting him around 8-9 rather than top-3.

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04-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SpeakerForTheDead View Post
I get that but that poster said best scorer 'right now'. Not in their respective primes. That just isn't true. Kobe in his prime vs Durant in his prime would be a different discussion for sure.

Again, I'm not saying Kobe is a bad player, I really like him and think he is one of the all-time greats. I just have my reasons for putting him around 8-9 rather than top-3.
I can respect that. Durant is better then kobe. Obviously if this was prime kobe it'd be a complete different story. Although kobe was the Nba's scoring leader for most of the season and very well may still be if he didn't get injured. But Durant is something else. Guys gonna win a lot of trophies and will have at least 3 rings before he retires.

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04-11-2013, 03:34 PM
  #91
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Fair enough, Lebron and Durant are efficient shooters than kobe but kobe has all the moves and he is the best player to make a shot for himself. Kobe takes mostly jumpshots at his age while Lebron has more inside moves, driving thorugh the lane for layups or dunks. As for Durant, the guy is unguardable he is 5"11 who can dribble the basketball, attack the basket and is a very good shooter, he is and will be a great player. I believe though that if all 3 guys were the same height, build and age as kobe is now, no doubt kobe will be the better scorer

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04-11-2013, 04:04 PM
  #92
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Melos in the conversation for best scorer too. He's leading right now for scoring leader right? Last time I checked, melo averaged like .3 more points then Durant. But that was Sunday so idk if anythings changed.

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04-11-2013, 04:15 PM
  #93
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Melos in the conversation for best scorer too. He's leading right now for scoring leader right? Last time I checked, melo averaged like .3 more points then Durant. But that was Sunday so idk if anythings changed.
Yeah, Melo is leading.

1. Melo - 28.6
2. Durant - 28.3
3. Kobe - 27.3
4. Lebron - 26.9

Durant is gonna have to average like 36 a game over the last 4 games to take the scoring title from Melo. Don't know if that will happen.

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04-11-2013, 04:25 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SpeakerForTheDead View Post
Yeah, Melo is leading.

1. Melo - 28.6
2. Durant - 28.3
3. Kobe - 27.3
4. Lebron - 26.9

Durant is gonna have to average like 36 a game over the last 4 games to take the scoring title from Melo. Don't know if that will happen.
As a Knicks fan, that is great to hear. Melo doesn't get enough credit for all he's done this year. Should be in the MVP discussion IMO.

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04-11-2013, 04:37 PM
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As a Knicks fan, that is great to hear. Melo doesn't get enough credit for all he's done this year. Should be in the MVP discussion IMO.
I think he definitely is in the MVP discussion. MVP generally has always gone to the best player on a 1-2 seed. So this year that gives you Lebron, Melo, Durant, Parker/Duncan. Parker and Duncan generally seem to cancel each other out and don't get as much recognition as the other three. So, I think Lebron, Melo and Durant will be the three finalists.

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04-11-2013, 06:10 PM
  #96
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I think he definitely is in the MVP discussion. MVP generally has always gone to the best player on a 1-2 seed. So this year that gives you Lebron, Melo, Durant, Parker/Duncan. Parker and Duncan generally seem to cancel each other out and don't get as much recognition as the other three. So, I think Lebron, Melo and Durant will be the three finalists.
Seems fair enough. All three have been great.

And on YouTube there is a video, " kobe vs lebron - mutual respect". Vid is the year before lebron left to go to Miami. It shows just how close they really were back then. Trust me. Watch it all. Very entertaining.

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