Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
So what I don't understand is if Toronto is looking to start trending up(and attract high profile UFAs), then they should be willing to send strong futures package(including pieces like Kadri, 1st, and Finn).
If they aren't and are only interested in Luongo simply for the sake of providing mentorship to any young goalies like Reimer or Rynnas, as well as allowing the youngsters to develop better by not having to worry about a goaltender causing every mistake they make to become a goal, then a player like Lupul should be expendable, as he doesn't fit in with the age of the core, and it makes sense to sell on him while his value is high.
A package made up of a medley of 'meh' players and 'meh' futures makes no sense for either side whichever direction the Leafs take.
Probably based off the rather baffling stat that Nazem Kadri is the only player, drafted under Burke's watch, to play a game in the NHL for the Leafs
Only two teams (Vancouver and San Jose) had less, with 5 matching that number (Calgary, NY Rangers, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, St. Louis). Of those 7 teams matching or having less draft picks play from that period (2009-2011), Toronto is the only one of those teams to not make the playoffs from 2009-2012. For the perennial contenders (San Jose, Vancouver, Rangers, Pittsburgh), you can make the case that they aren't drafting for immediate help or are dealing away their picks for the Cup run. For the others, you can make the case that they were playoff contenders, so it wasn't worth it to put young players in the lineup with the season on the brink. For Toronto, with no playoff appearances during that time, it's harder to put together an argument that Burke did a good job drafting.
Now, that should change in the coming years with the influx of players (Rielly, Biggs, Ross etc. that SHOULD play in the NHL), but right now, it's hard to make the argument that Burke did a very good job drafting.
Agree with everything you said, but it is still too early to write off the guys he drafted gonna have to wait a few more years to see if they become impact players
I'd love to hear an explanation on why you think that.
Look at your prospect pool.
It's not even top 20 in the NHL and, yet, there's been TWO lockouts since the last time the Leafs made the playoffs. Their second best prospect is a 22 year old who can't crack a basement-dweller and their third best prospect was acquired in a trade with Boston.
Bozak + Biggs + Kadri + Blacker/Finn + 2nd isn't a good enough return for Luongo? I fear for you when the trade goes down.
Bozak isn't a good player.
Biggs is a nice prospect but only projects as a 3rd liner.
Kadri, while a decent B prospect, wouldn't be a good fit here.
Blacker/Finn (let's assume Finn) is a good young D prospect who I do like.
2nd doesn't really do anything for me.
Would rather get some quality as opposed to a quantity of "meh" pieces.
__________________
I told ya so. I was right all along!
I don't think I would be happy with the offers Toronto is presenting. No Jake gardiner or 1st means this is going to be incredibly lackluster. Honestly Kadri and Bozak have proven little to nothing.
Luongo is proven to be a top flight player who has a save percentage hovering around .920. He is a good/elite player year in and year out. Sure his contract is long but its not too bad, 5.33M for a good/elite player is not much.
It's a risk, sure, but there is good chance that Kadri doesn't pan out and the others players offered don't fit into our system. Luongo is proven while the others are not.
Luongo will instantly be a fan favorite in Toronto. There is a better chance that Luongo propels the leafs into the playoffs than there is that either Kadri or Bozak work out for the Canucks.
Bozak isn't a good player.
Biggs is a nice prospect but only projects as a 3rd liner.
Kadri, while a decent B prospect, wouldn't be a good fit here.
Blacker/Finn (let's assume Finn) is a good young D prospect who I do like.
2nd doesn't really do anything for me.
Would rather get some quality as opposed to a quantity of "meh" pieces.
the day you get that package. you will get half of that, if lucky
Bozak + Biggs + Kadri + Blacker/Finn + 2nd isn't a good enough return for Luongo? I fear for you when the trade goes down.
I think the way y2k sees it is that any piece that isn't an impact player or a virtual lock to be one has no value to us. So to him it looks like
Waste of roster spot + dime-a-dozen-grinder + likely won't make our team + b defensive prospect + useless pick.
While I agree with him that a deal without an impact player shouldn't really be considered, I can still appreciate the value involved in that package, it's just that Luongo's value has been diluted into a number of pieces that don't do much for us. So if it were one such "impact player" + one of those pieces as a throw in, that would be fine. But quantity for quality usually doesn't get a deal done.
I think the way y2k sees it is that any piece that isn't an impact player or a virtual lock to be one has no value to us. So to him it looks like
Waste of roster spot + dime-a-dozen-grinder + likely won't make our team + b defensive prospect + useless pick.
While I agree with him that a deal without an impact player shouldn't really be considered, I can still appreciate the value involved in that package, it's just that Luongo's value has been diluted into a number of pieces that don't do much for us. So if it were one such "impact player" + one of those pieces as a throw in, that would be fine. But quantity for quality usually doesn't get a deal done.
When I see a proposal like that, I see a bunch of players who I wouldn't mind having but as secondary pieces to a trade. Any deal involving Luongo needs to be built around an impact piece, otherwise I really don't see any incentive to move Luongo to Toronto.
looked at this thread for the first time in a few weeks, had to recheck the dates to make sure it wasnt from aug 11, sept 11, oct 11, nove 11 or dec 11. Same old, same old.
looked at this thread for the first time in a few weeks, had to recheck the dates to make sure it wasnt from aug 11, sept 11, oct 11, nove 11 or dec 11. Same old, same old.
Kadri and Bozak are both the main pieces, a roster player that fills a hole that we have and a very good prospect that can step into our lineup
I'd rather trade a mid round round pick to fill that hole than Luongo. Maybe it's just me. If Bozak was more reliable defensively or tough to play against, and signed for more than 48 games I might feel differently.
If you can't admit that Bozak is a better option than Arnott or Schroeder than I don't see this discussion going very far and we'll have to agree to disagree. You could make the case that we should keep Luongo and see what better options are available later, but it does not make sense for the leafs to give up much more for Luongo. It's basically a given that we wont get full value for Luongo, so if we can get a solid prospect ane fill a glaring hole in our lineup im happy. We cant just look at our needs.
Thank you for being reasonable. Wise Canuck fan you are. TBH I do not even think I want Luongo, but at least you understand where we are coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks
He's already in Vancouver, and he's stated he's fine with being here. As long as the Canucks continue with a winning environment I don't see why Luongo would deviate from his current approach? Especially if the Canucks are contending for a Stanley Cup, Luongo could see this as an opportunity to get a ring. And it isn't like the Canucks are going to have Luongo playing 10-15 games out of the 48 game schedule, the split will likely be closer to 24/24.
Im sure he would publicly admit to not wanting to be there... right?
Thank you for being reasonable. Wise Canuck fan you are. TBH I do not even think I want Luongo, but at least you understand where we are coming from.
Im sure he would publicly admit to not wanting to be there... right?
We all do.
Just like I'm sure Dave Nonis would publicly admit that he would trade Jake Gardiner for Roberto Luongo...right? Or just like MLSE would openly admit that if Nonis doesn't make the playoffs that he's fired...right?
When I see a proposal like that, I see a bunch of players who I wouldn't mind having but as secondary pieces to a trade. Any deal involving Luongo needs to be built around an impact piece, otherwise I really don't see any incentive to move Luongo to Toronto.
Then keep him. Enjoy the 9.4 million you are paying your goalies. That 5.3 could be spent somewhere more important to push you guys into real cup contention. Being stubborn won't get you anywhere. Especially with Henrik and Daniel having to re-sign after next season.
