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ATD Chat Thread XV

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Old
06-22-2017, 05:12 PM
  #726
jarek
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Also I think MTL should just let Radulov go and give Drouin - Galchenyuk a shot. What Radulov did last year isn't worth the contract he's going to get. Galchenyuk still has higher upside.. they just need to play him in a position to succeed. I think Drouin may give him that opportunity.

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06-22-2017, 08:03 PM
  #727
MadArcand
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I don't think tanking as expansion team is a good idea. You want to build at least a tiny bit of fanbase, and losing 24/7 while playing horrible defensive hockey ain't gonna do that.

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06-22-2017, 08:19 PM
  #728
Johnny Engine
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
I don't think tanking as expansion team is a good idea. You want to build at least a tiny bit of fanbase, and losing 24/7 while playing horrible defensive hockey ain't gonna do that.
I think it was obvious from the awards show that they've already picked out the guys they're going to market hard. Engelland and Fleury were on hand, and Neal would have been had he not been in surgery. They also didn't make any attempt to draft guys who could compete for or move into the starting goalie position now or in a couple of years - it's clear that Fleury is the man on that franchise in every way.

I'm not sure how you could look at the last few rounds of expansion and conclude that worse=better in the long run. Nashville, Minnesota and Anaheim have been pretty respectable from the beginning, and Florida was the same until things got derailed in the Bure years. San Jose didn't kick into gear until they started bringing in guys like Larionov. On the flip side, Atlanta and Columbus were clown shows for most of their existence, and Ottawa mishandled a lot of fantastic prospects early on, largely owing to a loser of a team culture before they turned it around. (I omitted Tampa Bay because their ownership history was such a roller coaster)

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06-22-2017, 08:22 PM
  #729
MadArcand
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Fleury's fine. I think they're set in goal, but a decent defense and utterly, ridiculously abysmal offense will both kill them result-wise and make them highly unappealing to watch. A bad offensively oriented team will draw far more people than a bad, defensive team.

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06-22-2017, 09:01 PM
  #730
jarek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Fleury's fine. I think they're set in goal, but a decent defense and utterly, ridiculously abysmal offense will both kill them result-wise and make them highly unappealing to watch. A bad offensively oriented team will draw far more people than a bad, defensive team.
That's interesting, because the prevailing seems to be that this team won't have issues scoring.

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06-23-2017, 07:41 AM
  #731
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I genuinely thought they were going to be a bubble team in their first year. With awful teams like Vancouver and Arizona and teams like Winnipeg and Calgary who can't really get it going, the west is pretty open.

They killed what I thought by selecting awful players in exchange for picks and the few good players they picked are rumored to be traded in the near future for more picks and prospects.

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06-23-2017, 10:07 AM
  #732
MadArcand
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
That's interesting, because the prevailing seems to be that this team won't have issues scoring.
Who's gonna provide the scoring? Neal and... air?

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Old
06-23-2017, 11:37 AM
  #733
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
I think it was obvious from the awards show that they've already picked out the guys they're going to market hard. Engelland and Fleury were on hand, and Neal would have been had he not been in surgery. They also didn't make any attempt to draft guys who could compete for or move into the starting goalie position now or in a couple of years - it's clear that Fleury is the man on that franchise in every way.

I'm not sure how you could look at the last few rounds of expansion and conclude that worse=better in the long run. Nashville, Minnesota and Anaheim have been pretty respectable from the beginning, and Florida was the same until things got derailed in the Bure years. San Jose didn't kick into gear until they started bringing in guys like Larionov. On the flip side, Atlanta and Columbus were clown shows for most of their existence, and Ottawa mishandled a lot of fantastic prospects early on, largely owing to a loser of a team culture before they turned it around. (I omitted Tampa Bay because their ownership history was such a roller coaster)
I think looking only at expansion teams is a small sample that can be misleading. They all entered the league under slightly different situations, such as the expansion rules, quality of players they got to take in their first couple drafts, etc.

My point is more of a general one that bottoming out usually pays off - eventually.

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Old
06-23-2017, 11:38 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by jarek View Post
That's interesting, because the prevailing seems to be that this team won't have issues scoring.
I don't get that at all. The strength of the team is on defense, IMO, where they at least have a legit 3-4-4-4-5. On offense, start building imaginary lines and it starts to look really ugly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
I genuinely thought they were going to be a bubble team in their first year. With awful teams like Vancouver and Arizona and teams like Winnipeg and Calgary who can't really get it going, the west is pretty open.

They killed what I thought by selecting awful players in exchange for picks and the few good players they picked are rumored to be traded in the near future for more picks and prospects.
This is what I thought as well. The draft was set up in a way that they could have chosen to compete right away, or not. They chose the latter.

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Old
06-23-2017, 11:40 AM
  #735
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Chicago making some puzzling moves today

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06-23-2017, 02:24 PM
  #736
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Not hockey related but because I'm as close with you guys as anyone else on the board but today is my 10th anniversary here on the boards. I'd like to thank everyone for being so welcome to me here on the ATD board. Glad to be a respected member of the community here. While I'm debating my participation in future drafts, know that I've enjoyed being a part of the ATD community the past 7 years as anything else here on hfboards. Thanks to madarcand for taking a chance on me in 2010. Also thanks to Dave G for being a co gm to me in 2010 and 2011. Also to velo and wrigley for being co gms to me as well.

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Celebrating 10 yrs. at hfboards today. Thanks everyone for making the past decade so memorable. Here's to 10 more years.
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Old
06-23-2017, 05:13 PM
  #737
jarek
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So admittedly I didn't look too closely at their roster. They have some legit players.

Neal
Marchessault
Eakin
Perron
Haula
Karlsson
Lindberg
Smith
Grabovski

Although if you're making a top-6 out of these players, then yeah, I guess it's pretty bad. This is a group that could arguably make a Stanley Cup calibre bottom-6, and line using some combination of Neal, Marchessault, Perron and Grabovski could be a legit 2nd line.

I guess you could say that VGK has a championship calibre goaltender and bottom-9/bottom-4, and are just missing the elite players necessary to win. That's honestly right about where the Leafs were last year, right?


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Old
06-23-2017, 08:16 PM
  #738
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... Wasn't Liljegren a guy who people were saying could have gone 1st overall?

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Old
06-23-2017, 08:31 PM
  #739
Johnny Engine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
So admittedly I didn't look too closely at their roster. They have some legit players.

Neal
Marchessault
Eakin
Perron
Haula
Karlsson
Lindberg
Smith
Grabovski

Although if you're making a top-6 out of these players, then yeah, I guess it's pretty bad. This is a group that could arguably make a Stanley Cup calibre bottom-6, and line using some combination of Neal, Marchessault, Perron and Grabovski could be a legit 2nd line.

I guess you could say that VGK has a championship calibre goaltender and bottom-9/bottom-4, and are just missing the elite players necessary to win. That's honestly right about where the Leafs were last year, right?
I don't think they expect Grabovski to play at all, as he missed the entire season with a concussion.

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Old
Yesterday, 07:25 AM
  #740
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
Chicago making some puzzling moves today
The Panarin for Saad deal makes sense. They strengthen the Toews line at the expense of the Kane line. The Hjalmarsson one though....I guess they are just thinking of two years from now?

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Yesterday, 07:29 AM
  #741
jarek
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The Panarin for Saad deal makes sense. They strengthen the Toews line at the expense of the Kane line. The Hjalmarsson one though....I guess they are just thinking of two years from now?
The Hjalmarsson one was probably purely a cap move. That guy is a luxury that sometimes you just can't afford.

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Old
Yesterday, 10:47 AM
  #742
ResilientBeast
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... Wasn't Liljegren a guy who people were saying could have gone 1st overall?
Yeah two years ago

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Old
Yesterday, 10:49 AM
  #743
jarek
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
Yeah two years ago
Are you suggesting he's somehow lost that talent?

Passing on a guy because he had mono seems like a poor way to evaluate a player.

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Old
Yesterday, 10:51 AM
  #744
ResilientBeast
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Are you suggesting he's somehow lost that talent?

Passing on a guy because he had mono seems like a poor way to evaluate a player.
No, but other players caught up to him

I remember reading his thread a few years ago and he was touted as a 1st overall candidate. But most of the names drafted ahead of him I didn't really hear about till this year

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Old
Yesterday, 11:00 AM
  #745
jarek
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
No, but other players caught up to him

I remember reading his thread a few years ago and he was touted as a 1st overall candidate. But most of the names drafted ahead of him I didn't really hear about till this year
Who knows what he could have done if his play didn't tail off due to his illness. Either way, he's got top-3 pick talent. We'll see how it plays out.

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