They got screwed in THAT game, but it isn't the reason they aren't playing at home next Saturday. Losing @ Min in week 17 is.
Obviously there is more than one reason they arent playing at home next sunday. You can point out any of their losses and say thats the reason.
They missed out on #2 by one win and they won that Seattle game. So point to a different game if you want but the fail mary call cost the Packers home field
Feels good. Hate Minnesota and playing Peterson. Great game. Offense needs to capitalize a little more, but guys will continue to get healthier and ease in. They'll need a gut-check victory next Saturday in San Francisco, but I'll enjoy this one now to say the least.
You can keep repeating that the Vikings would have lost with a healthy Ponder all you like (if it makes you feel better anyway), but the facts are that they didn't lose to them last week, they didn't have the box stacked against Peterson to this degree, and Ponder carried some throwing threat which allowed them to move the ball in both the running and passing game. They also would have been able to get their defense off the field by controlling some of the football. Considering that the Packers only scored 24 tonight the game was there to be won by the Vikings without question, but they had to play a scrub and couldn't do it. That's just the way things worked out I suppose.
LOL the Packers only scored 24 because they were in clock killing mode from the mid 3rd quarter on.
Obviously there is more than one reason they arent playing at home next sunday. You can point out any of their losses and say thats the reason.
They missed out on #2 by one win and they won that Seattle game. So point to a different game if you want but the fail mary call cost the Packers home field
No. It didn't. All they had to do was win their last game and they were the 2nd seed. They lost that game. A bad call that cost them a game in week 3 has nothing to do with that final game where they held their own destiny.
I had the Vikings losing before the game, perhaps you should keep up. The poll question tells you exactly who thought who would win today. But they had a chance with a competent NFL level QB or game manager type. I do not see how that can be disputed.
A statement game from an elite QB to beat the Packers, really? I seem to remember Alex Smith managing just fine. The Packers only put up 24 points, I guess this is a dominant performance in your world, not mine. A team with decent level QB play could have won this game, the Packers didn't play very well by any stretch of the imagination. You also seem to have a hard time understanding that Webb under center was the reason Peterson wasn't able to run anywhere. When you can put 9 guys in the box and not be remotely worried about the QB hitting either of his receivers or making a checkdown to the flats, the game is over and done with before it starts.
... you really think Peterson was getting less respect over the last few games than he was today?
Let me clue you in: when your running back breaks 2000 yards, and averages more yards per rush than the starting QB does yards per attempt, you stack the box on him and ignore the passing game. Which is what has been happening for months now. Ponder would not have forced them to stop stacking the box. Biggest difference in the run game today was that the Packers contained the outside. Some number of players in the box, but played with better discipline and prevented Peterson from bouncing broken plays out to the edge. Ponder has put in worse performances than what Webb did today, Peterson was still able to get his yardage. Green Bay came up with an effective scheme to contain him, you have to give them credit. Making it worse, Green Bay had it's full secondary back, Vikings receivers couldn't beat 1-on-1 coverage. What put a dagger in the offense was that the inside rush was enough to collapse the pocket (that allowed the OLBs to stay home in containment).
Ponder is a better QB and would have likely been able to run the offense better while the score was close. He has a better feel for the pocket and would have likely been able to salvage some dump-offs that could have moved the ball some. At the very least, the 3-and-outs wouldn't have looked like such a debacle. Very much doubt we had the weapons or plan to beat the scheme Green Bay used today. Offense wasn't going to carry the day for us.
To keep it close, we would need other players and units to make plays. Vikings didn't make a single play on defense worth mentioning. No turnovers. They let the Packers manage two drives of 10+ yards. They couldn't get off the field. Rogers may have been under 300 yards, but that doesn't reflect his level of play. He was on his game and didn't make a single mistake. As for special teams, Vikings again made no plays and game up a fumble.
The score simply does not reflect how one-sided this game was. Yes, 24 points can be dominant, when that team outplays their opponent (by a wide margin) in all-three phases. Packers were a better team in every way. How you couldn't see that is puzzling.
Peterson would have went over 100 yards if the Packers felt they needed to defend against the other 10 guys on the field. I think the point was that if Ponder played, the game would have been there for the taking in the 4th quater. You said yourself all he had to do was not lose it for them.
Now the muffed punt and no turnovers are also part of the equation, but they only gave up 24 points, and Rodgers was under 300 yards passing. I think most Vikings fans would have taken that.
You should go back and watch any other Viking game of the past two months.
No team has respected the Vikings passing game this season. Since November, they have all completely sold-out on stopping the run.
The game was not there for the taking in the 4th quarter... the Packers let up. Rogers could have easily gone over 300 (again, zero turnovers, 2 10+ play drivers) but simply did not need to in order to comfortably win the game.
The game was nowhere near as close as the score leads you to believe.
I don't think anyone is saying they would have won with Ponder or that he would have single-handedly carried them to a victory but they had a better chance with him starting.
A better passing game could have opened things up for Peterson. I think Ponder on his worst day would have converted some first downs and given the defense more rest as well. Again, not saying they would win but better quarterback play could have changed how the game played out.
That I agree with. Ponder could have at least converted a few of those drives. To me though, we were grossly over-matched in all phases. Nobody stepped up. For us to win, we would have needed somebody who could carry the team when no other unit is carrying their weight.
Where I think Green Bay one was in their defensive scheme against Peterson. This was a very different tactic than what they did last week, and clearly it worked. They didn't run blitz, everybody stayed home and waited for Peterson to come to them. Meant he had nowhere to go. Give the Packers credit, this was the most Peterson has been held in check in months. And it isn't like defenses have been respecting Ponder's performances during that time.
That I agree with. Ponder could have at least converted a few of those drives. To me though, we were grossly over-matched in all phases. Nobody stepped up. For us to win, we would have needed somebody who could carry the team when no other unit is carrying their weight.
Where I think Green Bay one was in their defensive scheme against Peterson. This was a very different tactic than what they did last week, and clearly it worked. They didn't run blitz, everybody stayed home and waited for Peterson to come to them. Meant he had nowhere to go. Give the Packers credit, this was the most Peterson has been held in check in months. And it isn't like defenses have been respecting Ponder's performances during that time.
Absolutely. I also think that somebody would need to be Peterson. Nobody else can carry the team, especially on defense. Allen has been playing with a torn labrum, Winfield played with a fractured hand, and Williams is on the decline. None of those guys were going to change the outcome of the game like they have been able to do in the past. In the end, the better team won and is moving on.
Now the fun starts. I think they have some cap space to work with and they'll have to bring in a couple of new receivers next season. I would like them to bring someone in to challenge Ponder but I doubt it happens. He played well at the end of the season and the team made the playoffs so I think he'll be starting next season. The Percy situation is up in the air. Either they give him a long-term extension or they trade him, there is no other choice. They might also have to make some hard decisions with some of the veteran players. Williams, Allen, and Winfield are older players who are making a lot of money.
Overall I think it was a good season and a step in the right direction. Was very happy with the play of Kalil and Smith. They won't have high picks this year but hopefully they continue to draft well.
You guys needed to keep a second QB on the roster. Webb is not a real QB.
They had Sage Rosenfels but cut him so there'd be no pressure to bench Ponder when he struggled, because everyone knows Webb can't do anything but run.
Nobody in the front office expected playoffs this season or that if we got there we'd need a backup QB.
It was "go with Ponder all year, if he gets hurt we'll just throw Webb in there it's not like we're gonna be good this year anyway."
The fact that MBT couldn't see the field even in garbage time at the end says a lot about him and he's just a place holder/scout team QB this year.
I like Webb's athleticism but he really has no position. Maybe try him on returns? IDK. He can't catch or run crisp routes which is why they never moved him to WR as they originally planned when they drafted him.
Next year they need 2 QBs. A veteran and a prospect. They should draft someone in the mid rounds like Washington did with Cousins. A lot could change but guys like Ryan Nassib, Tyler Bray and EJ Manuel look like mid-round picks, at the moment.
As for available vet backups, FA include: Campbell, Leftwich, Moore, Gradkowski, Thigpen, Carr, Anderson, Stanton, Grossman and T.Jackson(won't bring him back).
I'd guess they'll sign either Thigpen or Gradkowski as they had interest in both before stupidly acquiring McNabb last year.
You should go back and watch any other Viking game of the past two months.
No team has respected the Vikings passing game this season. Since November, they have all completely sold-out on stopping the run.
The game was not there for the taking in the 4th quarter... the Packers let up. Rogers could have easily gone over 300 (again, zero turnovers, 2 10+ play drivers) but simply did not need to in order to comfortably win the game.
The game was nowhere near as close as the score leads you to believe.
The game could have been there in the 4th quarter. I know Ponder sucks, but give the guy a little credit man. He's not the answer but he's not an unmitigated disaster.
They didn't let up, come on man. Letting up would have been pulling Rodgers and Co. Why would Rodgers be left in there if the Packers weren't trying to score.
Absolutely. I also think that somebody would need to be Peterson. Nobody else can carry the team, especially on defense. Allen has been playing with a torn labrum, Winfield played with a fractured hand, and Williams is on the decline. None of those guys were going to change the outcome of the game like they have been able to do in the past. In the end, the better team won and is moving on.
Now the fun starts. I think they have some cap space to work with and they'll have to bring in a couple of new receivers next season. I would like them to bring someone in to challenge Ponder but I doubt it happens. He played well at the end of the season and the team made the playoffs so I think he'll be starting next season. The Percy situation is up in the air. Either they give him a long-term extension or they trade him, there is no other choice. They might also have to make some hard decisions with some of the veteran players. Williams, Allen, and Winfield are older players who are making a lot of money.
Overall I think it was a good season and a step in the right direction. Was very happy with the play of Kalil and Smith. They won't have high picks this year but hopefully they continue to draft well.
Definite move forward, far exceeding anybody's expectations. Concerned that this may give a false sense of security, I don't think we are as good as our record. The roster still needs a lot of work.
1) Ponder remains a sub-par NFL QB. I still have him as one of the worst in the league. Maybe his game against Green Bay was the start of a new Ponder... but that is what people thought after his Detroit game as well. I see him with a low ceiling. We need somebody to press him to start. Hopefully with Webb's debacle, we get that Plan B we need.
2) I think Harvin is gone. Something happened between him and the front office, there was no reason for him to go on the IR. We won't get jack in trade as he is in the last year of his contract and WRs rarely command premium value. A third would be nice. A 2nd from a desperate team is best-case-scenario.
3) WRs are abysmal. Need at least 2 more. Jenkins is OK as a possession guy and Wright showed promise as a slot man. That means we need our two outside starters... that won't get solved in one off season.
4) Interior offensive line is bad. Sullivan needs help. Neither Fusco nor Johnson are starting caliber.
5) Need to upgrade the LBs. Greenway is excellent. Henderson and Brinkly are warm bodies. Need to replace at least one, if not both.
6) Need Corners. Winfield is at the end (may even try him at FS to get more years out of him). Neither Sherels nor Jefferson should be higher than 4th on a depth chart. Cook is proving unreliable to to injuries and criminal activity. Means we need 2 good CBs.
There are other areas it would be nice to upgrade (a better DT alongside Williams for example), but we can get by as-is.
We have cap space, stadium deal is done... we can't have another "Let's sign Carlson!" type off-season.
The game could have been there in the 4th quarter. I know Ponder sucks, but give the guy a little credit man. He's not the answer but he's not an unmitigated disaster.
They didn't let up, come on man. Letting up would have been pulling Rodgers and Co. Why would Rodgers be left in there if the Packers weren't trying to score.
You don't have to pull your starting QB in order to let up on a team. Packers were running a no-huddle offense most of the game up until Kuhn scored in the 3rd. Never ran it again after that. More so, they began to focus on the run more. They were playing it safe.
I do give Ponder credit, he is better than Webb. But you people acting like Ponder would have put the Vikings in the game are simply delusional. It would have kept it closer than it was, but Green Bay was better IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME. Ponder wouldn't have kept Sherels from fumbling. Ponder would not have gotten the defense a turnover. Ponder would not have kept the Packers from laying 2 10+ play drives on the defense. Ponder would not have kept the Packers from focusing on Peterson. What Ponder could have done is made better use of what the Packers gave them, maybe hit some checkdowns and middle screens to move the chains some.
The difference between the teams is far greater than the difference between Ponder and Webb. Put another way... as bad as Webb was yesterday... Ponder had FOUR games that were statistically worse. Ponder is better, but that is changing brands of dog food and not upgrading us to steak.
That's all were saying is that the score would have been closer than it was. The Vikings would have still had a chance to win as opposed to being completely hopeless. They would have needed to force a turnover and not take a 12-men penalty on the field goal, but who knows how different things are if the Vikings defense actually had some time on the sidelines to regroup as opposed to a bunch of 3 and outs.
The game could have been there in the 4th quarter. I know Ponder sucks, but give the guy a little credit man. He's not the answer but he's not an unmitigated disaster.
They didn't let up, come on man. Letting up would have been pulling Rodgers and Co. Why would Rodgers be left in there if the Packers weren't trying to score.
Rodgers was in there to control the game and manage the clock. If you watched the last quarter nd a half you would know this. He was shredding that secondary, they had no chance. Clearly they were in clock draining mode.
That's all were saying is that the score would have been closer than it was. The Vikings would have still had a chance to win as opposed to being completely hopeless. They would have needed to force a turnover and not take a 12-men penalty on the field goal, but who knows how different things are if the Vikings defense actually had some time on the sidelines to regroup as opposed to a bunch of 3 and outs.
So if they had Ponder, played better on defense, committed fewer mistakes and made more plays, they would have had a chance. Well, yea. But none of those other things happened, so how and why Ponder would be the catalyst to make the defense and special teams better is _____.
Here is the thing so many of you seem to forgot: Ponder could have been worse. Why? Because he HAS BEEN worse. For all we know, Ponder could have gone out there and played like he did the last time the Vikes were in Green Bay and notch a QB rating under 40.
Last two match-ups against the Vikes, the defense played big and Peterson couldn't be stopped. Neither of those happened. And it isn't like the Packers went and rewrote their defensive scheme and gameplan at 3:30 yesterday when it was announced Ponder wasn't playing, they likely executed the scheme they had practiced all week.
This notion that it would have been close had Ponder been in there is not based in reality. The game wasn't even close. Ponder would have limited the damage, but the Packers were better in every way possible yesterday. After the 1st drive from Minnesota, at no point in the game was the outcome in doubt.
That is the worst qb performance I have ever seen in the nfl. I know he only had 1 interception, but it is kind of hard for the other team to intercept the ball it is either 15 yards overthrown, or it comes out like he is trying to skip rocks.
So if they had Ponder, played better on defense, committed fewer mistakes and made more plays, they would have had a chance. Well, yea. But none of those other things happened, so how and why Ponder would be the catalyst to make the defense and special teams better is _____.
Here is the thing so many of you seem to forgot: Ponder could have been worse. Why? Because he HAS BEEN worse. For all we know, Ponder could have gone out there and played like he did the last time the Vikes were in Green Bay and notch a QB rating under 40.
Last two match-ups against the Vikes, the defense played big and Peterson couldn't be stopped. Neither of those happened. And it isn't like the Packers went and rewrote their defensive scheme and gameplan at 3:30 yesterday when it was announced Ponder wasn't playing, they likely executed the scheme they had practiced all week.
This notion that it would have been close had Ponder been in there is not based in reality. The game wasn't even close. Ponder would have limited the damage, but the Packers were better in every way possible yesterday. After the 1st drive from Minnesota, at no point in the game was the outcome in doubt.
Whatever makes you feel better, man. Our point is that the Vikings would had a puncher's chance later in the game. It wouldn't have been the first time in the history of football that a team with a bad QB hung around and came out with a win against all probability. We just would have had the same discussion next week.
Meanwhile, maybe Joe Webb somehow opened the Stargate to the end of the NHL lockout.
I want Minnesota to win because I've been a big AP fan this year, but I think the emotion of this week won't carry over and GB being at home will lead to some Ponder mistakes and a 13 point Packers win. Hope I'm wrong.
Substitute Ponder for Webb and I pretty much nailed it.
^ You can't just sign someone and expect him to learn the offense in a week or less.
The only guy out there who maybe knows the offense is Sage Rosenfels and who knows if he has even done anything football related since they cut him in August.
