I made this poll because Sens fans were telling me that Ceci was better. I also wanted to better gage how much stock to put into draft position. If Burke had reached for Olli Maatta with the fifth overall pick would people say theres no point in comparing him to Ceci? How much stock should we put into a players draft position?
I made this poll because Sens fans were telling me that Ceci was better. I also wanted to better gage how much stock to put into draft position. If Burke had reached for Olli Maatta with the fifth overall pick would people say theres no point in comparing him to Ceci? How much stock should we put into a players draft position?
That's a weird question...
Maata was ranked 8th amongst NA skaters by the CSS, 12th in the ISS final rankings, 10th by Bob McKenzie, 28th by Craig Button, and 20th by The Hockey News.
Rielly was ranked 5th by the CSS, 7th by the ISS, 8th by MacKenzie, 3rd by Button, and 6th by THN.
I'm sure there'd be much more debate of Maatta vs. Ceci (there still probably is since they went 15th and 22nd), but I don't understand in what hypothetical world Burke would take him with the 5th. It's just as random as saying, "What if Burke took Matt Finn with the 5th overall pick?"
Also, for comparison, Ceci was ranked 6th, 10th, 14th, 11th, and 10th. So if you were to average those out, you'd have Rielly at 6th, Ceci at 10th, and Maatta at 16th...pretty close to what actually happened.
I made this poll because Sens fans were telling me that Ceci was better. I also wanted to better gage how much stock to put into draft position. If Burke had reached for Olli Maatta with the fifth overall pick would people say theres no point in comparing him to Ceci? How much stock should we put into a players draft position?
If the Leafs drafted Maatta fifth overall and the Sens drafted Ceci fifteenth overall you might be able to compare them because they were projected to be drafted around the same area. However, most scouting services did have Rielly over Ceci and he was drafted ten spots higher so at this point it's hard to find any reason to pick Ceci over Rielly.
Does it mean Rielly ends up being the better player for sure? No. But right now it's stupid to say Ceci is going to be better because the general thought was Rielly would be better and since then nothing has happened to change that.
Does it mean Rielly ends up being the better player for sure? No. But right now it's stupid to say Ceci is going to be better because the general thought was Rielly would be better and since then nothing has happened to change that.
Bingo. What argument could you present other than "I feel in my gut that all of the scouting services got it wrong."
There's no way to judge who definitively will be better, but I don't see how you could possibly put Ceci over Rielly when neither has played a single game since they were drafted...how would that 10 pick difference suddenly disappear?
Bobby Orr - 5'11
Ray Bourque - 5'11
Paul Coffey - 6'0
Eddie Shore - 5'11
Nicklas Lidstrom - 6'1
Morgan Rielly - 6'0
so without knowing anything but their height, Rielly looks promising... (wikipedia #)
I was just about to post something saying height has absolutely no bearing on who is a better player. Especially when the difference is a mere 2 inches. Looks like you've got me covered though.
My beef was more with the generalization of a fan base.
He can comment however he likes...I just don't think it adds to the discussion.
And on another topic, I think the Ceci/Finn discussion has some merit to it. I'd be interested to see a Ceci vs. Finn poll (though I fear that one would devolve even faster into a flame war between the two fan bases).
I'm curious to know how often you watch the two players (Ceci and Finn).
I don't want to seem TOO elitist here, but I watch just as much OHL Hockey as I do NHL Hockey, and Matt Finn is someone (check my post history even before the draft) who does not have the same offensive OR defensive capabilities or upside as Ceci.
Similarly, Cody Ceci does not have the same capabilities or the same upside as Rielly.
EDIT: Quoted wrong person.
But in addition, to "JohnnyUtah" who said Ceci was better offensively but not as good defensively, this simply proves how little (if at all) you follow the OHL. That's completely fine, but don't go around spreading these ridiculous claims. Before the season began, Cody Ceci was a defensive defenceman. Defense was all his game was about. Sure, he added the occasional point, but he was a stay at home defenceman with a large physical presence (in size and positioning, not big hits). Seemingly out of nowhere, Ceci cranked up his offensive game this year. One of his biggest assets is one that is rarely mentioned by fans of hockey, that being his ability to drag the puck to the middle of the ice. In that sense, he's eerily similar to Doughty (in that ability). I'm not trying to put down Matt Finn, I've seen him play countless times going all the way back to Minor Midget. I'm simply saying Cody Ceci is better, both offensively and defensively.
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Last edited by Classless Manked: 07-24-2012 at 04:19 PM.
I'm curious to know how often you watch the two players (Ceci and Finn).
I don't want to seem TOO elitist here, but I watch just as much OHL Hockey as I do NHL Hockey, and Matt Finn is someone (check my post history even before the draft) who does not have the same offensive OR defensive capabilities or upside as Ceci.
Similarly, Cody Ceci does not have the same capabilities or the same upside as Rielly.
Alright...I didn't mean to offend. I try to watch as much OHL/WHL games as I can, but it's usually limited to Leafs prospects' teams, so I'm sure you have more experience there.
I don't really know enough about Ceci or Finn to say how much better one is than the other at each aspect of the game, but I just figured it'd be a more interesting comparison than Rielly vs. Ceci. Finn was viewed by many as a mid-to-late first rounder (18th by ISS, 16th NA skater by CSS, 9th by Button, 21st by MacKenzie, 18th by The Hockey News, 20th by the Red Line Report, 20th by McKeen's), so I figured they'd be closer in comparison.
Not even close despite Ceci being better defensively, bigger and with a better career performance so far and more experience. Oki doke. Not saying that Ceci is a shoe in but it's not 'AINEC' for either player.
Not even close despite Ceci being better defensively, bigger and with a better career performance so far and more experience. Oki doke. Not saying that Ceci is a shoe in but it's not 'AINEC' for either player.
I would say 9 out of 10 scouts think Morgan Rielly is better than Ceci. All you need to do is check the latest draft results to see who professional talent observers thought was better.
