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WIN!! - Game 72: Arizona at Nashville - 7PM CT - Coyote Invasion

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Old
03-22-2017, 12:28 AM
  #76
sparkle twin
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Originally Posted by Adz View Post
Saw something on FB that was fairly amusing in a cringeworthy sort of way--poor Craig even missed when he was named a star of the game and tried to throw the shirt over the glass. I don't know what he did to annoy the Hockey Gods but they are unrelenting in their wrath.
Maybe he needs to score an empty net goal to reverse what ever curse he has on him. And score it without any trick/showoff moves. Just skate the puck down the ice and tap it into the net.

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03-22-2017, 06:01 AM
  #77
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Maybe he needs to score an empty net goal to reverse what ever curse he has on him. And score it without any trick/showoff moves. Just skate the puck down the ice and tap it into the net.
Heck he scored 2 in one night and that still didn't break the funk, I'm not sure an empty netter is going to fix it lol

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03-22-2017, 06:24 AM
  #78
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Everyone here knows how I feel about Smith... but to act like Poile did something wrong for paying him as a 20G scorer is totally unfair to Poile, since the 3 years prior to this one were 21,23, and 24G.

he got a fair, market value contract based on his history...

I feel so bad for the guy I even changed my avatar hoping to break his curse

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03-22-2017, 07:46 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Everyone here knows how I feel about Smith... but to act like Poile did something wrong for paying him as a 20G scorer is totally unfair to Poile, since the 3 years prior to this one were 21,23, and 24G.

he got a fair, market value contract based on his history...

I feel so bad for the guy I even changed my avatar hoping to break his curse
Nobody is saying Poile was wrong to pay Smith the amount he did cause Smith did have 3 good scoring years and was producing at the time. The point I was trying to make was that poster I quoted was being hard on Smith for not scoring 20 goals this year basing it off of how much we are paying him and the expectation that comes w/ paying someone that amount. What I was simply trying to say is that it isn't Smith's fault he is getting paid that amount as any player would ask for the highest amount they can get especially if they are producing that year but that Poile gave him that amount despite there being no proof that he could or would score 20 goals each year as Smith had 3 good scoring years but he also had two bad ones where he couldn't score. So there was always inconsistency in his game. Poile gambled though and took a chance that Smith would score 20 goals and he got three years of that at least but now not so much. So I would put that more on Poile than Smith as there shouldn't have been that expectation that Smith would score 20 goals each year when his history has showed otherwise. So should just take the good w/ the bad and just realize that Smith may have years where he will score 20 goals or he may have years where he doesn't.


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03-22-2017, 08:16 AM
  #80
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Nobody is saying Poile was wrong to pay Smith the amount he did cause Smith did have 3 good scoring years and was producing at the time. The point I was trying to make was that poster I quoted was being hard on Smith for not scoring 20 goals this year basing it off of how much we are paying him and the expectation that comes w/ paying someone that amount. What I was simply trying to say is that it isn't Smith's fault he is getting paid that amount as any player would ask for the highest amount they can get especially if they are producing that year but that Poile gave him that amount despite there being no proof that he could or would score 20 goals each year as Smith had 3 good scoring years but he also had two bad ones where he couldn't score. So there was always inconsistency in his game. Poile gambled though and took a chance that Smith would score 20 goals and he got three years of that at least but now not so much. So I would put that more on Poile than Smith as there shouldn't have been that expectation that Smith will score 20 goals each year when his history has showed otherwise. So should just take the good w/ the bad and just realize that Smith may have years where he will score 20 goals or he may have years where he doesn't.
I don't think you can walk into a negotiation and say, "Yeah, I know you scored 20 goals 3 years in a row, but 4 years ago you didn't, so let's just ignore the 3 years, shall we?"

Suppose a mainly healthy Ovi has a down year next year and scores 21 goals. Can the caps really say, "I can't pay you like a 30-goal scorer. You didn't do it last year, so you haven't proven it. Or at least you haven't proven it will continue." ?

Like it or not, Smith earned his contract. This year he certainly isn't playing to the level of the contract he earned, but that doesn't mean he'll never score 20 again.

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03-22-2017, 08:24 AM
  #81
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Smith ihas been hosting the radio show so maybe Vegas will pick him up...

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03-22-2017, 09:58 AM
  #82
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Well, it has long been the kiss of death.

I'd prefer for him to turn it around and produce. I really do feel bad for him. He has had really rotten luck.

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03-22-2017, 10:04 AM
  #83
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I'm sure Smith will rebound next year. The talent is there. He works. It's not like he stopped caring. He'll bounce back. Would be better for us (for Vegas) if he'd bounce back this year.

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03-22-2017, 10:13 AM
  #84
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I'm sure Smith will rebound next year. The talent is there. He works. It's not like he stopped caring. He'll bounce back. Would be better for us (for Vegas) if he'd bounce back this year.
He was bad last year too outside of his great hot streak down the stretch. And despite that hot streak to close out the year, he was still awful in the playoffs. Given the incredibly easy minutes he played all year, it was still a big disappointment overall. Anyway, the point is he obviously didn't rebound this year, so it's very, very far from a sure thing he'll do so next year.

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03-22-2017, 10:18 AM
  #85
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He was bad last year too outside of his great hot streak down the stretch. And despite that hot streak to close out the year, he was still awful in the playoffs. Given the incredibly easy minutes he played all year, it was still a big disappointment overall. Anyway, the point is he obviously didn't rebound this year, so it's very, very far from a sure thing he'll do so next year.
Statistically, at least, he will. Like Vingan said a couple weeks back he has the most scoring chances of all the team.

He's shooting at a 6.5 %, when his career percentage is about 10.

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Old
03-22-2017, 10:23 AM
  #86
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Statistically, at least, he will. Like Vingan said a couple weeks back he has the most scoring chances of all the team.

He's shooting at a 6.5 %, when his career percentage is about 10.
His career percentage is exactly 9. If he was shooting 9% this year, it would give him 12.42 goals, let's call it 13. Would 13 goals instead of 9 make this year not a total disappointment? I don't think so. He always has a ton of chances he can't convert, that was true even when he was scoring 20 goals every year. After 5 years of piling up chances with a very low conversion rate, I'm no longer impressed.

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03-22-2017, 10:30 AM
  #87
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By bouncing back, I believe he can still hit 20 goals, but at least 15 and be 30-35 point player.

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03-22-2017, 10:32 AM
  #88
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By bouncing back, I believe he can still hit 20 goals, but at least 15 and be 30-35 point player.
If he stills needs incredibly easy minutes to accomplish that, it's not a good thing at all. He's taking offensive minutes and deployments from those who could actually do some real damage offensively.

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Old
03-22-2017, 10:50 AM
  #89
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'good' goals, 'bad' goals, 'early' goals, 'late' goals, 'easy' minutes, 'hard' minutes...

they all count. one could say yeah smith was only good really early (5 goals in the first 20, three of which were game winners) and then late last season (10 goals in the last 25, three more of which were game winners). but that might well have been the difference in us even making the playoffs or missing them entirely.

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03-22-2017, 10:53 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Pred303 View Post
'good' goals, 'bad' goals, 'early' goals, 'late' goals, 'easy' minutes, 'hard' minutes...

they all count. one could say yeah smith was only good really early (5 goals in the first 20, three of which were game winners) and then late last season (10 goals in the last 25, three more of which were game winners). but that might well have been the difference in us even making the playoffs or missing them entirely.
Yeah, usually those don't matter to me, either, it's what stands in the end that matters.

But if a player goes to a scoring slump for 40-50 games that in unacceptable especially if you're paid $4.25M.

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03-22-2017, 10:55 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Pred303 View Post
'good' goals, 'bad' goals, 'early' goals, 'late' goals, 'easy' minutes, 'hard' minutes...

they all count. one could say yeah smith was only good really early (5 goals in the first 20, three of which were game winners) and then late last season (10 goals in the last 25, three more of which were game winners). but that might well have been the difference in us even making the playoffs or missing them entirely.
Maybe. And maybe his nearly complete absence the rest of the year cost the team quite a bit more points than those couple of short stretches gained. I'm inclined to lean toward the latter.

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03-22-2017, 10:58 AM
  #92
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yeah, but what is it worth dollar wise us making versus not having made the playoffs? would him being paid a million less made him 'more or less' important in the end? it's why i never worry about salaries that much

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03-22-2017, 11:00 AM
  #93
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Maybe. And maybe his nearly complete absence the rest of the year cost the team quite a bit more points than those couple of short stretches gained. I'm inclined to lean toward the latter.
using this logic, forsberg had 60 games last year where he didn't score a goal either.

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03-22-2017, 11:03 AM
  #94
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using this logic, forsberg had 60 games last year where he didn't score a goal either.
Cool, he also put up 33 goals and 64 points, played well defensively, played on the PK and didn't drag his linemates down when he couldn't produce. Are we really talking apples and apples here? I don't think so.

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03-22-2017, 01:31 PM
  #95
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He was bad last year too outside of his great hot streak down the stretch. And despite that hot streak to close out the year, he was still awful in the playoffs. Given the incredibly easy minutes he played all year, it was still a big disappointment overall. Anyway, the point is he obviously didn't rebound this year, so it's very, very far from a sure thing he'll do so next year.
That's what you get in most ~20 goal scorers. They are streaky otherwise they would be 40-50 goal scorers.

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03-22-2017, 01:51 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
His career percentage is exactly 9. If he was shooting 9% this year, it would give him 12.42 goals, let's call it 13. Would 13 goals instead of 9 make this year not a total disappointment? I don't think so. He always has a ton of chances he can't convert, that was true even when he was scoring 20 goals every year. After 5 years of piling up chances with a very low conversion rate, I'm no longer impressed.
If everything stayed the same, you are right. If he were shooting at his career average instead of below it he would have ~13 goals and it'd still be a down year. However, we cannot simply assume if he were shooting at the same percentage he typically does he would have the same number of shots, scoring chances, etc. No one knows a player is in a slump better than that player, and it can definitely make them second guess their own abilities. Sure, he might only have the 13 goals, but if they were going in for him more often he might be more likely to shoot the puck. In his higher scoring seasons he shoots the puck anywhere from ~2.5 to 3 times per game. Right now he's shooting it twice per game. Twice.

If there were a way to prove it, I'd be willing to bet his reduction in shots is partially psychological. As it stands, all we can do is assume. I'm going to assume it's a down year and he'll bounce back to the same form he held for three consecutive seasons. Maybe he won't, but I think he will.

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03-22-2017, 06:25 PM
  #97
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But he didn't hold the same form for three consecutive seasons. Each season was worse than the last, both statistically and on the ice via the eye test in my opinion. He's not a very good passer, doesn't have good hockey sense and he's poor defensively. He hustles, is a good forechecker and he's pretty fast. But if he isn't scoring goals, he's a liabilty.

He'll never top 20 again (and never would have in the first place) without substantial power play time in my opinion and now the Preds have better options for the PP. He might get 15-18 and around the same number of assists. But with his deployments and salary that would still be disappointing. I hope he ends up in Vegas and it works out well for him, but if it was up to me, his time with the Preds would be at an end.

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That's what you get in most ~20 goal scorers. They are streaky otherwise they would be 40-50 goal scorers.
Sure, but no other 20 goal scorer needed (along with Mike Ribeiro) the easiest minutes in the league to pull off 20 goals. And plenty of other 20 goal scorers are also physical, good passers, good defensively, play on the PK, or help the team in other ways. Craig Smith does none of those things. If he isn't scoring he's just about useless.


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Old
03-22-2017, 09:24 PM
  #98
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Heck he scored 2 in one night and that still didn't break the funk, I'm not sure an empty netter is going to fix it lol
Remember when smith had a potential empty net goal vs Toronto a few years ago, he tried to be cute and roof an empty net goal, but ended up missing the whole thing? I was just saying maybe he could appease the hockey gods/reverse the curse on him by scoring an ENG without trying to be cute and just tap it into the net.

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