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Old
02-18-2014, 12:41 PM
  #126
sd1976
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I'm not comparing anything. All i'm saying drew at 7 million a bargin Kessel at 8 million expensive.
Kessel is at $5.5 not at $8. At 8, which doesnt come until next year, he is on par with those that have signed recent long term Free Agent deals, Perry as an example who signed for more, is older, and not as good IMO. Wait until Kane comes up for renewal. Ovechkin is at 10 mil. So exactly how is Kessel expensive again? Doughty as an RFA at 7 mil is not a bargain. Petriangelo is a bargain in comparison.

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Old
02-18-2014, 12:48 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by sd1976 View Post
Kessel is at $5.5 not at $8. At 8, which doesnt come until next year, he is on par with those that have signed recent long term Free Agent deals, Perry as an example who signed for more, is older, and not as good IMO. Wait until Kane comes up for renewal. Ovechkin is at 10 mil. So exactly how is Kessel expensive again? Doughty as an RFA at 7 mil is not a bargain. Petriangelo is a bargain in comparison.
so 500K/year is what it takes for you to go from bargain to too expensive? That's the difference between Petro and DD's contracts.
I think all three players are worth what they are getting paid.

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02-18-2014, 01:05 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
so 500K/year is what it takes for you to go from bargain to too expensive? That's the difference between Petro and DD's contracts.
I think all three players are worth what they are getting paid.
Thats right. Doughty signed his 3 years ago with a much smaller cap. Petriangelo signed his this past off season knowing how high the cap is expected to go.

I dont think any of them are overpaid, just trying to show that you can't compare RFA and UFA contracts as being on par with each other, nor can you look at contracts signed a few years apart. Different circumstances aand much different leverage on the players part.

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02-18-2014, 01:13 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sd1976 View Post
Thats right. Doughty signed his 3 years ago with a much smaller cap. Petriangelo signed his this past off season knowing how high the cap is expected to go.

I dont think any of them are overpaid, just trying to show that you can't compare RFA and UFA contracts as being on par with each other, nor can you look at contracts signed a few years apart. Different circumstances aand much different leverage on the players part.
we are way off track here, but is the cap not lower this year (first year of Alex's deal) than it was 3 years ago when Doughty signed.
I think you can compare players current contracts no matter if they were signed as a UFA or RFA. LA wanted Drew locked up long-term they got that but had to pay for it. Same thing with the Kessel contract that kicks in next year. One was an RFA one was going to be UFA, both were similar.

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Old
02-18-2014, 01:22 PM
  #130
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we are way off track here, but is the cap not lower this year (first year of Alex's deal) than it was 3 years ago when Doughty signed.
I think you can compare players current contracts no matter if they were signed as a UFA or RFA. LA wanted Drew locked up long-term they got that but had to pay for it. Same thing with the Kessel contract that kicks in next year. One was an RFA one was going to be UFA, both were similar.
The cap ceiling was indeed lower when Doughty signed.

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Old
02-18-2014, 02:11 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Interesting that all the Kings fans dropped the Carter/JVR debate so quickly when presented with facts. An admission of defeat would've been nice at least.
i have no idea where the defeat is.....
Carter is scoring at our offensive black hole.
I simply and plain don't want to trade him for JVR who would turn into a constant 8 goals player playing our system.
Nobody would trade a 35+ goal scorer for a 8 goal scorer

As long as Sutter is here i am against any trades.....

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Old
02-18-2014, 02:21 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Interesting that all the Kings fans dropped the Carter/JVR debate so quickly when presented with facts. An admission of defeat would've been nice at least.
"Carter not particularly good at anything else but scoring. JVR great at almost everything, and elite in some areas."

And you think its interesting people dropped ''the debate'' ?

I think its more interesting that nobody cared.

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Old
02-19-2014, 04:41 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by T M L View Post
Lol, no it's not. Kessel and JVR are untouchable anyway, and so is Doughty. Carter is not, as this is his 3rd NHL team already.

Hopefully Rielly will be our Doughty in a few years! He is only 19 and his skill set is very very encouraging. We can only hope.
Maybe offensively potential wise but Doughty is a great defender and is physical, Doughty is as close to untouchable as it gets, you would be paying something like

Doughty

JVR, Rielly, Kadri, Gardiner, 1st

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Old
02-19-2014, 04:57 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Chet. View Post
Toronto adds

Doughty > Kessel
Carter >= JVR
Not only is Carter not >= to JVR , he is 4+ years older

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Old
02-19-2014, 04:59 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Devils Army View Post
Maybe offensively potential wise but Doughty is a great defender and is physical, Doughty is as close to untouchable as it gets, you would be paying something like

Doughty

JVR, Rielly, Kadri, Gardiner, 1st
....Doughty is very good but he isn't Bobby Orr

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Old
02-19-2014, 05:02 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
i have no idea where the defeat is.....
Carter is scoring at our offensive black hole.
I simply and plain don't want to trade him for JVR who would turn into a constant 8 goals player playing our system.
Nobody would trade a 35+ goal scorer for a 8 goal scorer

As long as Sutter is here i am against any trades.....
... A guy that drives the net as well as anyone, who hangs in front of the net as well as anyone, a guy that scores most of his goals in tight, wouldn't fit in with the "LA System"?

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Old
02-19-2014, 06:34 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Stats are important but you cannot take the points any player has an expect them to translate into Sutter's system.
This argument holds absolutely no water. For those that missed my post on this earlier in the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicious Dangles View Post
LOL @ people blaming LA's system for their players sucking offensively, especially for a one-shot, one-dimensional player like Carter who isn't really affected by systems. These kind of theories have been proven wrong time and time again, but they keep popping up.

By that logic, JVR is better because he's awesome defensively. Carter actually sucks defensively, but the system makes him look better, amiright?

Guess what! Carter has scored goals at a HIGHER PACE since joining LA. LA was also 9th in GF last year.

This suggests that the team is inconsistent offensively because the players are inconsistent offensively, not because the system sucks them dry.


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Old
02-19-2014, 07:24 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Northernguy10 View Post
Not only is Carter not >= to JVR , he is 4+ years older
Yup. And in the last four of those years, Jeff Carter's goals are almost equal or more than JVR' s points. In the NHL, a proven veteran with years ahead of him is worth way more than a young player who is in the middle of one good season.

JC goals the previous four seasons: 116 (plus 78 assists)
JVR points the previous four years: 131
Point to goal differential of 15/4 years or 3.75 a season.

And that's not counting Carter's 08/09 year of 46 goals and 84 points.

Carter's goal high is higher than JVR's point-high of 40 points in 10-11.


While TO fans think JVR is hot while playing with Kessel, neither player has done well in the playoffs, scoring at about .25 points per playoff game...except last year when Carter picked up 14 points in 18 games. JVR is warming up but Jeff Carter is red hot right now.

Jeff Carter, the 40g scorer and playoff performer >>> James van Riemsdyk, the 40 point regular season scorer

Shea Weber is 4+ years older than Slava Voynov and SW is paid almost double VV. Weber >>> Voynov too.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:30 PM
  #139
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernguy10 View Post
... A guy that drives the net as well as anyone, who hangs in front of the net as well as anyone, a guy that scores most of his goals in tight, wouldn't fit in with the "LA System"?
don't get me wrong.
it's not the player it's the coach that makes this trade pointless.
It really doesn't matter what skill level he has, he won't score more than 8 goals per year here in L.A.

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02-19-2014, 07:33 PM
  #140
Delicious Dangles
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Yup. And in the last four of those years, Jeff Carter's goals are almost equal or more than JVR' s points. In the NHL, a proven veteran with years ahead of him is worth way more than a young player who is in the middle of one good season.

JC goals the previous four seasons: 116 (plus 78 assists)
JVR points the previous four years: 131
Point to goal differential of 15/4 years or 3.75 a season.

And that's not counting Carter's 08/09 year of 46 goals and 84 points.

Carter's goal high is higher than JVR's point-high of 40 points in 10-11.

While TO fans think JVR is hot while playing with Kessel, neither player has done well in the playoffs, scoring at about .25 points per playoff game...except last year when Carter picked up 14 points in 18 games. JVR is warming up but Jeff Carter is red hot right now.

Jeff Carter, the 40g scorer and playoff performer >>> James van Riemsdyk, the 40 point regular season scorer

Shea Weber is 4+ years older than Slava Voynov and SW is paid almost double VV. Weber >>> Voynov too.
Yay for comparing two players over a time period in which they are at different stages of development, in different roles, with different qualities of linemates. Different everything! Since JVR has developed and been put in a similar role, he has 42 goals and 79 points in 106 games. Also ignoring the fact that he is much better this year than even last year, when he also put up PPG in the playoffs.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:36 PM
  #141
Delicious Dangles
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
don't get me wrong.
it's not the player it's the coach that makes this trade pointless.
It really doesn't matter what skill level he has, he won't score more than 8 goals per year here in L.A.
Funny, considering Carter scores at a HIGHER pace in LA than he did elsewhere.

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Old
02-19-2014, 07:39 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Yup. And in the last four of those years, Jeff Carter's goals are almost equal or more than JVR' s points. In the NHL, a proven veteran with years ahead of him is worth way more than a young player who is in the middle of one good season.

JC goals the previous four seasons: 116 (plus 78 assists)
JVR points the previous four years: 131
Point to goal differential of 15/4 years or 3.75 a season.

And that's not counting Carter's 08/09 year of 46 goals and 84 points.

Carter's goal high is higher than JVR's point-high of 40 points in 10-11.


While TO fans think JVR is hot while playing with Kessel, neither player has done well in the playoffs, scoring at about .25 points per playoff game...except last year when Carter picked up 14 points in 18 games. JVR is warming up but Jeff Carter is red hot right now.

Jeff Carter, the 40g scorer and playoff performer >>> James van Riemsdyk, the 40 point regular season scorer

Shea Weber is 4+ years older than Slava Voynov and SW is paid almost double VV. Weber >>> Voynov too.
He has 47 already this year talk about career high. JVR has yet to play his career year. He is roughly entering his prime. He still has potential to be more effective in shot quality. Why would I keep JVR? Because he is a leafs and absolutely beast.

Flyers would be hitting their heads to the wall for trading him for Luke Schenn. I hope this Olympic performance boosts confidence level for Leafs and those players.

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