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Mark Messier Looking For Ways Get Canadian Kids To Play Hockey

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Old
05-19-2017, 02:01 PM
  #51
SCBlueLiner
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Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
It would also be helpful if competitive hockey, such as AAA, was a lot more selective than they are today. There are a lot of people out there chasing the dream and paying out the nose who really don't have a hope in hell of being selected in a CHL draft or landing the full ride D1 scholarship. Organizations and business people are using these people as ATMs and while they should be free to spend their money as they see fit, they better end up with some great memories and life lessons because most of the time, that's all you're left with while you play in the beer leagues!
Problem is you don't know if you can make it or not unless you go through the system. If everybody knew on the front end that it would never happen they wouldn't waste their time. Thing is, you don't know, so parents will do everything possible to give their kids opportunities.

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05-19-2017, 03:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
We've had this discussion a few times in the past, but still it is important to remind everyone that the "Bauer First Shift" initiative (originally named "Bauer First Assist") is NOT a philanthropic program in any way.

No, the program is part of a negotiated settlement Bauer reached with the Canadian Competition Bureau to avoid hefty fines (and horrible press) after the CCB concluded that Bauer's Canadian advertising of its RE-AKT helmets misrepresented the bucket's ability to reduce concussions.

The CCB ruling is here:

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...eng/03839.html

There's lots more about that story (anyone ever heard of Messier's M-11 Helmet? Not a bauer product .....and no longer even mentioned by ol' #11 himself), but I wouldn't give Bauer much credit here. Their negotiated settlement with the Competition Bureau was a gift.
And people wonder why some of us are cynical?.... BAM!
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Originally Posted by SCBlueLiner View Post
Problem is you don't know if you can make it or not unless you go through the system. If everybody knew on the front end that it would never happen they wouldn't waste their time. Thing is, you don't know, so parents will do everything possible to give their kids opportunities.
Right. And thats just wrong on every level. Kids are supposed to be entering & playing sports first of all for fun, secondly in learning how to deal with others & play nice, character building, to instil confidence, senses of accomplishment, healthy pursuit & so on. That is the opportunity that organized hockey represents; not an opportunity for the parent to try & cash in on little Bobby's potential at 18 or 20, drafted & signed, set for life, all the while behaving like the worst kinds of Stage Mothers. The odds of that happening almost as long as winning the lottery even if he makes it to the Jr.A level. Yet really since the late 70's on with big money hitting the game thats exactly the way a considerable number of Parents approach it. Money not merit huh?. Embarrassment to my generation & those that followed. Simply doesnt work that way. Busted. System of a down.


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05-19-2017, 04:55 PM
  #53
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What?!

Subban(s), Simmonds, Kadri, Byfuglien, Jones (who is actually a symptom of the real problem with all pro sports nowadays), Okposo, Daley, Ward, Kane, Ho-Sang, etc...

I don't disagree that soccer (and every other sport that doesn't require a trust fund) is eating hockey's lunch right now but to argue that nothing has changed since the 'post-expansion era' is absurd.

The problem facing hockey isn't even exclusive to hockey. Costs in all sports are pricing out any and everybody who doesn't have the money for elite training.....https://theundefeated.com/features/g...ge-basketball/
Don't do that. The number has barely incremented since the days of Iginla, Carter, Grier, Mayers, Worrell, Weekes, Laraque, Grand-Pierre, Salvador fifteen years ago. Can still name them off the top of my head because they were all I had to look up to growing up trying to play. Nothings changed. It's a rich, white mans sport, and that's why its struggling the way it is.

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and the NHL does jack squat to market them.
Quite the opposite actually. PK Subban's terrible attitude was holding the Habs back, remember? Lol

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05-19-2017, 05:44 PM
  #54
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basketball is much more "hip" then hockey and the NBA actually market it stars unlike the NHL.
what do you mean the NBA market their stars better than the NHL?

do you mean appearing in commercials? something like lebron james appearing in a commercial selling sprite?

i just saw recently patrick kane appearing in gatorade commericial...

is that what you mean by "marketing", appearing in tv commericials?

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05-19-2017, 06:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
What?!

Subban(s), Simmonds, Kadri, Byfuglien, Jones (who is actually a symptom of the real problem with all pro sports nowadays), Okposo, Daley, Ward, Kane, Ho-Sang, etc...

I don't disagree that soccer (and every other sport that doesn't require a trust fund) is eating hockey's lunch right now but to argue that nothing has changed since the 'post-expansion era' is absurd.

The problem facing hockey isn't even exclusive to hockey. Costs in all sports are pricing out any and everybody who doesn't have the money for elite training.....https://theundefeated.com/features/g...ge-basketball/
getting off topic...james harden, a nba star, got criticized on twitter for having a basketball camp for kids where he is charging $249 per child....



you know the demographic of an average NBA fan/player/basketball non-nba bound is african american....also the socioeconomic status of this group is low income.... most african american families in the united states are poor and would be those families could not afford that $249 price tag.....

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05-19-2017, 06:32 PM
  #56
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I'm still perplexed reading that Messier used magazines for shin pads for a game of road hockey. What were they using? An actual puck?

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05-19-2017, 06:59 PM
  #57
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I'm still perplexed reading that Messier used magazines for shin pads for a game of road hockey. What were they using? An actual puck?
.... yeah, mustve been some awfully aggressive games of road hockey, psycho kids slashing each other in the shins which on just about every other street & driveway on the planet is strictly verboten. I cant ever recall seeing any kid at anytime using shinpads let alone magazines strapped to their legs with the exception of the odd guy playing goal.... so sorry, but somehow that little story doesnt quite pass the smell test unless it was done maybe once or twice when Mark was like 3yrs old and it was meant to be cute. Maybe he'd heard stories about Eddie Shore, Gordie Howe & Johnny Bower (brought up in rural Saskatchewan 1 of 9 kids, Johnny fashioned his first pair of pads from an old mattress, was gifted a pair of oversized skates, used a crooked tree branch for a stick & frozen horse manure for a puck) & decided to try it out just for fun...... However, I rather doubt finding castoff hockey equipment in the Messier household was a problem... he had an older brother Paul who was also an avid hockey player and a father who had played Minor Pro in the AHL & WHL and was a Coach at the minor-league level in Alberta. The basement, garage... no doubt full of old gear.


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05-19-2017, 07:23 PM
  #58
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If you have to find ways to get kids to play, it's over. Had it's heyday and now on the downslope. The world moves on. I'm sure people were all bent out of shape when jousting matches and gladiators started phasing out as well.

Edit to add: how desperate to play are some kids? I'll never forget watching two 10 year olds at an arena playing organized hockey yet they didn't have a stick between them. I witnessed them taping a stick that had it's shaft broken in two. As they were wrapping black tape around the shaft to make it appear as it wasn't broken one lad said to his friend it's easy just hold your hand here and don't shoot. When you come off I can go on... Sad now that I think about it but the kids weren't moping about it.


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05-19-2017, 09:08 PM
  #59
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NHL could make teams ice a youth academy like many soccer teams. This will give a chance for kids to play for free who show potential. It would probably kill an parity the league has but could potentially save the sport from disappearing from the spotlight.

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05-19-2017, 10:14 PM
  #60
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There's a wonderful section in Gordie Howe's autobiography where he describes in vivid detail "the best hockey season of my life." No, it was not his 1946 rookie year in the NHL or his 1973 return to lace 'em up with his boys in Houston.

Instead, it was 1940, when he was a grade 7 student at King George Public School in Saskatoon. What made that season so special to him? He was the goalie on his school hockey team and also played pretty much non-stop on as many as 6 different teams once the school day ended. Howe recounts leaving the ice at the conclusion of a game, pulling off the sweater and replacing it with another, and then jumping back on for another game. He'd get to the rink at 4:00 pm and hit the pillow at 10:00, all winter long. Nobody stopped him, he was a classic rink rat, and there was no place he'd rather be than on the ice, at the rink.

His description of this season is lovely and moving -- he's a boy in love with a game and the love is 100% requited.

Fast forward 70+ years to 2014 and we have a news story about a 10 year old boy from Caledon, Ontario, who is suspended for one year by the Ontario Minor Hockey Association. His crime? He was registered on a AA travel team and a recreational House league team at the same time. His participation on these 2 different teams did not prevent another kid from playing the game -- the house league was begging for participants.

You can read the story here:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thes...suspended.html

Can Gordie be retroactively suspended for playing on as many as 6 different teams in multiple leagues so long ago?

I'm setting the two stories side by side to illustrate what happens to the games we love to play when adults with political agendas slowly but surely "regulate competition" to within an inch of its life. I use the term "regulate competition" because every single governing body for amateur hockey in Canada has these two words -- "Regulate Competition" -- in its "Purpose Statement."

The end result? The governing bodies become mini legislatures, enshrining more rules and regulations than exist in the entire penal codes of some nations. There is a huge difference between stewarding a sport through changing times so that it remains vibrant and simply "regulating competition." The former is obsessed with providing what contemporary youth want and need; the latter is obsessed with structural minutiae and "Father Knows Best" control, even as the soul of a game people love at a visceral level is torn a little bit more with each new regulation. Rome could be burning before their eyes because of rampant pyromania and the youth hockey leadership in Canada would respond with yet another new regulation standardizing the colour of fire hydrants.

They've lost sight of what truly matters and I've no faith that anything short of laser cataract surgery will restore much needed vision. Messier and Bauer? They don't even qualify as bit players in any of this.

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05-19-2017, 10:47 PM
  #61
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... yes, agreed, well said Badger and pretty obvious where these officious, small minded & petty little Mandarins are coming from, right smack out of the Communist doctrine. Playing God & wreaking havoc.... "It is true that liberty is precious, so precious that it must be rationed". Vladimir Lenin.

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05-19-2017, 11:02 PM
  #62
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Like everyone says it so expensive that its a money loser ...we have one in my city it gets used maybe 25 days a year man hour time tops being generous ...Besides that the violence the danger is driving parents away ...just read recently junior players have 7 times greater chance and longer recovery time ....Until the league deals with that elephant lawsuit in the room ....well its a big problem
Another junior rink based towards kids well like other poster said they went to ball hockey due to insurance
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...of_running_an/
http://iceskatingresources.org/rinkf...litystudy.html

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05-20-2017, 02:16 AM
  #63
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I have to agree with badger as well. Pro sports in North America need to start taking a long hard look at the European model of doing things. I also agree with a previous poster as well, hockey is being exploited by the rich to make it a rich mans game. The club model might be unfair, and certain Canadian teams and northern US teams would have a clear advantage but the league could easily mitigate that so it doesn't turn into a European league of haves and havenots.

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05-20-2017, 04:02 PM
  #64
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I have to agree with badger as well. Pro sports in North America need to start taking a long hard look at the European model of doing things. I also agree with a previous poster as well, hockey is being exploited by the rich to make it a rich mans game. The club model might be unfair, and certain Canadian teams and northern US teams would have a clear advantage but the league could easily mitigate that so it doesn't turn into a European league of haves and havenots.
A salary cap would prevent teams from stockpiling on home grown talent, with an European model.

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05-20-2017, 05:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
I have to agree with badger as well. Pro sports in North America need to start taking a long hard look at the European model of doing things. I also agree with a previous poster as well, hockey is being exploited by the rich to make it a rich mans game. The club model might be unfair, and certain Canadian teams and northern US teams would have a clear advantage but the league could easily mitigate that so it doesn't turn into a European league of haves and havenots.
Agreed.

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A salary cap would prevent teams from stockpiling on home grown talent, with an European model.
All the salary cap does is enforce mediocrity.

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05-20-2017, 06:07 PM
  #66
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Baseball are having the same issues and Adam Jones always speaking on it. However, little league baseball is by far the king of kids sporting events in the WORLD.

Subban holding up the Stanley cup would inspire so many kids. It can be a big deal.

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05-20-2017, 06:52 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Don't do that. The number has barely incremented since the days of Iginla, Carter, Grier, Mayers, Worrell, Weekes, Laraque, Grand-Pierre, Salvador fifteen years ago. Can still name them off the top of my head because they were all I had to look up to growing up trying to play. Nothings changed. It's a rich, white mans sport, and that's why its struggling the way it is.
100% COrrect.

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05-21-2017, 08:15 AM
  #68
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post

Instead, it was 1940, when he was a grade 7 student at King George Public School in Saskatoon. What made that season so special to him? He was the goalie on his school hockey team and also played pretty much non-stop on as many as 6 different teams once the school day ended. Howe recounts leaving the ice at the conclusion of a game, pulling off the sweater and replacing it with another, and then jumping back on for another game. He'd get to the rink at 4:00 pm and hit the pillow at 10:00, all winter long. Nobody stopped him, he was a classic rink rat, and there was no place he'd rather be than on the ice, at the rink.

His description of this season is lovely and moving -- he's a boy in love with a game and the love is 100% requited.

Fast forward 70+ years to 2014 and we have a news story about a 10 year old boy from Caledon, Ontario, who is suspended for one year by the Ontario Minor Hockey Association. His crime? He was registered on a AA travel team and a recreational House league team at the same time. His participation on these 2 different teams did not prevent another kid from playing the game -- the house league was begging for participants.



The end result? The governing bodies become mini legislatures, enshrining more rules and regulations than exist in the entire penal codes of some nations. There is a huge difference between stewarding a sport through changing times so that it remains vibrant and simply "regulating competition." The former is obsessed with providing what contemporary youth want and need; the latter is obsessed with structural minutiae and "Father Knows Best" control, even as the soul of a game people love at a visceral level is torn a little bit more with each new regulation. Rome could be burning before their eyes because of rampant pyromania and the youth hockey leadership in Canada would respond with yet another new regulation standardizing the colour of fire hydrants.

They've lost sight of what truly matters and I've no faith that anything short of laser cataract surgery will restore much needed vision. Messier and Bauer? They don't even qualify as bit players in any of this.
Spot on Badger.

I'll add in regarding "stage parents" and there is the problem. Parents living through their kids so they are "impressive" at the water cooler instead of letting kids be kids and find their passion like Gordie did.

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05-22-2017, 08:53 AM
  #69
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Honestly, if Gordie were a kid today other parents would be blasting his parents for allowing him to play so much. They would be all over them about "burnout" and they would chastise them for neglecting his schooling (how can he get any homework done playing 6 hours a day?) USA Hockey would reinforce those ideas as they are constantly going on about "burnout" and that kids should put away their hockey sticks and go play other sports.

Can't have it both ways. Can't glorify the rinkrats while at the same time screaming about player "burnout".

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05-22-2017, 10:38 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Don't do that. The number has barely incremented since the days of Iginla, Carter, Grier, Mayers, Worrell, Weekes, Laraque, Grand-Pierre, Salvador fifteen years ago. Can still name them off the top of my head because they were all I had to look up to growing up trying to play. Nothings changed. It's a rich, white mans sport, and that's why its struggling the way it is.
I'd argue the current crop is a fair bit more talented at least. Other than Iginla and Carter (and Grier if were being nice) those 90's guys were mostly plugs.

No question it's generally a rich white mans sport; but that isn't something that can be changed through marketing; that's just the reality of a sport that requires either extremely cold temperatures, or a refrigerated warehouse *before* you even start talking about equipment amd organizational costs.

I just don't get the relevance of comparing it to soccer or basketball. It's like complaining about the weather. Hockey is a niche sport and that will never not be the case because it's barrier to entry will *always* be higher, relative to the other sports it is "competing against" for dollars/eyeballs.


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Yesterday, 10:29 AM
  #71
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I'd argue the current crop is a fair bit more talented at least. Other than Iginla and Carter (and Grier if were being nice) those 90's guys were mostly plugs.

No question it's generally a rich white mans sport; but that isn't something that can be changed through marketing; that's just the reality of a sport that requires either extremely cold temperatures, or a refrigerated warehouse *before* you even start talking about equipment amd organizational costs.

I just don't get the relevance of comparing it to soccer or basketball. It's like complaining about the weather. Hockey is a niche sport and that will never not be the case because it's barrier to entry will *always* be higher, relative to the other sports it is "competing against" for dollars/eyeballs.
All true. It's going to be expensive no matter what in the southern climates that don't get natural ice, but there are things we can be doing to bring the costs down in the northern USA and Canada. I look at the community based hockey system they have in Duluth, MN. Mite and Squirt teams still play on a neighborhood team in outdoor neighborhood parks. Why can't that be replicated everywhere it gets cold and snowy? Instead there are AAA Squirt Major teams that play across the country and spend an unholy amount of money in the process on travel, ice time, special camps and clinics, etc. The funny part is that squirt kid in Duluth, MN playing for his local Glen Avon neighborhood team will be the one that ends up with a D1 scholarship to Minnesota-Duluth, not the kid whose parents spent tens of thousands of dollars on a youth "career".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YAbqyktLM8

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Yesterday, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SCBlueLiner View Post
All true. It's going to be expensive no matter what in the southern climates that don't get natural ice, but there are things we can be doing to bring the costs down in the northern USA and Canada. I look at the community based hockey system they have in Duluth, MN. Mite and Squirt teams still play on a neighborhood team in outdoor neighborhood parks. Why can't that be replicated everywhere it gets cold and snowy? Instead there are AAA Squirt Major teams that play across the country and spend an unholy amount of money in the process on travel, ice time, special camps and clinics, etc. The funny part is that squirt kid in Duluth, MN playing for his local Glen Avon neighborhood team will be the one that ends up with a D1 scholarship to Minnesota-Duluth, not the kid whose parents spent tens of thousands of dollars on a youth "career".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YAbqyktLM8
Exactly. Yet in Canada kids as young as age 6 are in atom pro traveller teams.

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