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Kings vs. Sabres - 10/08/11 - POST GAME THOUGHTS

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Old
10-09-2011, 06:07 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
The system should be allowing Doughty and Johnson to use their skating and pinch down low but it seems to me the coaches refuse to adjust to the talent on the team.

That's just not true. The green light is on when it comes to the d-men pinching. If anything we do it more then most teams in the league.

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10-09-2011, 06:21 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Tell that to the 10-11 Bruins and the 09-10 Blackhawks
Not that it's going to matter to you, but the Kings went more time zones than either of those teams

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10-09-2011, 08:37 PM
  #153
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It's definitely frustrating having to go through Jack's growing pains every season. And just when you start to think he's no good and he'd be better off traded, he gives you a couple of great games just to show you what he can become... But you'd expect him to be able to handle himself by now. I don't like to use the excuse of him being young anymore, he's been an NHL regular for four seasons and is turning 25 in a few months. Time to step up, Jack.
I generaly would agree with you but Jack is a special case in that he was so raw and uncoached coming out that the young tab still counts in my opinion. Plus Jack has improved each season so there is no reason to believe he won't continue to develop like defenseman used to.

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10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
  #154
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I generaly would agree with you but Jack is a special case in that he was so raw and uncoached coming out that the young tab still counts in my opinion. Plus Jack has improved each season so there is no reason to believe he won't continue to develop like defenseman used to.
Where do you come up with the uncoached tag?

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10-09-2011, 09:21 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Where do you come up with the uncoached tag?
The belief was that in Michigan, they let Johnson run loose and he didn't receive much coaching on how to play defense. Lombardi compared the process of teaching Johnson how to play defense to trying to tame a stallion.

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10-09-2011, 09:22 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The belief was that in Michigan, they let Johnson run loose and he didn't receive much coaching on how to play defense. Lombardi compared the process of teaching Johnson how to play defense to trying to tame a stallion.
You mean a Jack Adams winner and one of the best coaches in the history of the NCAA didnt know what he was doing?

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10-09-2011, 09:29 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You mean a Jack Adams winner and one of the best coaches in the history of the NCAA didnt know what he was doing?
I'll just point to Mike Komisarek as an example that supports that claim.

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10-09-2011, 09:31 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'll just point to Mike Komisarek as an example that supports that claim.
Komisarek was highly regarded when he was with Montreal. So much so Bigmouth made him a very rich man.

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10-09-2011, 09:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Where do you come up with the uncoached tag?
The Kings organization said as much and named Adam's name. I agree with it. Jack was essentialy a forward playing d at Michigan. He had very little responsibility and was aloud to roam around, hit, rush without issue.

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10-09-2011, 09:50 PM
  #160
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You can read the infamous Dean Lombardi interview here:
http://frozenroyalty.net/2010/01/20/...aft-belatedly/

Quote:
“This guy has never had any coaching [at the University of Michigan],” Lombardi said. “Jack just did what he wanted.”
“Michigan is the worst.” Lombardi added. “For hockey people, if you’ve got a choice between a kid—all things being equal—one’s going to Michigan and one’s going to Boston University, you all want your player [going to Boston University]. Michigan’s players—[head coach] Red [Berenson] doesn’t coach. It’s ‘do what you want.’ He gets the best players in the country.”

During his two seasons at the University of Michigan, Johnson played as a rover, rather than as a defenseman, even though that was his official position.
“Jack was a thoroughbred out there,” Lombardi explained. “But he was all over the place. He was awful as a hockey player. As an athlete, you’re going, wow! Look at the way he skates, shoots, he can pass. But he had no idea where he was going.”

“At times, he was playing forward at Michigan,” Lombardi elaborated. “You had no idea what position he was playing. But he had always been the star and he always got his numbers. Then he turns pro and for the first time, we’re telling him ‘whoa, just make the first pass and learn to play in your own end.’ How about making a read in your own end about the right guy to pick up? He was awful.”
Indeed, the miscues and blown coverages, especially in the defensive zone, were glaring—Johnson was a defensive liability.

“It was a big risk for us to trade for him,” said Lombardi. “There was all that hype and stuff because he’s just like a thoroughbred. It’s like looking at a horse and saying wow! But then he gets on the track and he has no clue how to run the race. He might even run in the wrong direction. That was Jack. [He was] really raw.”
Like many young players loaded with talent and skill, Johnson could not believe it when criticism came his way.

“Here again, you’ve got a kid who’s got to change his game and he can change a game, going end-to-end, getting you out of your own end,” Lombardi noted. “It was like, ‘you’re not good enough at that not to do these other things that you’ve never done.’ Now try and convince him of that after [he has] been told how great [he is throughout his] life, [he has] played in the US Development Program, [he was] at Michigan, everything [was] great, great, great. Now [he is] in the pros and it’s ‘what do you mean? I’m Jack Johnson.’”

“He struggled with it,” Lombardi added. “‘What do you mean, you’re criticizing me?’ Yeah, [I am]. When these kids come up now, this might seem totally abnormal to you, because anyone else growing up probably got slapped around [figuratively speaking] as you were learning your career or anything you’re learning. But these kids are all told how great they are.”

“He didn’t start believing that [he] might have to start doing this until the middle of last season. [Kings head coach Terry Murray, also known as Murph] is a great teacher. Thank God for Murph. He was really a smart player, nowhere near as talented. [He told Jack to] slow down and take it a step at a time. Slowly, he’s gotten better. He’s certainly had his ups and downs. But that’s why he made the Olympic team, because this guy is hard to play against.”

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Old
10-09-2011, 09:55 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You can read the infamous Dean Lombardi interview here:
http://frozenroyalty.net/2010/01/20/...aft-belatedly/
That's big talk for a one-eyed fat man.

How many Jack Adam's has Lombardi won?

Im aware of the talk about Johnson being allowed to do whatever he felt like, I cant say since I didnt follow the program, but talking **** about a legend like Berenson isnt surprising, considering the source.

If Lombardi truly felt that way, one has to wonder why he traded for him in the first place.

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10-09-2011, 10:01 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That's big talk for a one-eyed fat man.

How many Jack Adam's has Lombardi won?

Im aware of the talk about Johnson being allowed to do whatever he felt like, I cant say since I didnt follow the program, but talking **** about a legend like Berenson isnt surprising, considering the source.

If Lombardi truly felt that way, one has to wonder why he traded for him in the first place.
You're deflecting.

DL traded for him because he is supremely talented, but it doesn't make a difference in the debate.

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10-09-2011, 10:15 PM
  #163
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You're deflecting.

DL traded for him because he is supremely talented, but it doesn't make a difference in the debate.
Well, how long has he been with the Kings now? Are their coaches crap too? Sometimes the things Lombardi comes up with make no sense. Like this time for instance.

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10-09-2011, 10:48 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Well, how long has he been with the Kings now? Are their coaches crap too? Sometimes the things Lombardi comes up with make no sense. Like this time for instance.
Jack is light years ahead where he was when he started. He's improved every year. Nobody will argue that.

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10-09-2011, 10:49 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Well, how long has he been with the Kings now? Are their coaches crap too? Sometimes the things Lombardi comes up with make no sense. Like this time for instance.
He was traded for in 2005, and Lombardi said last year he was just starting to get it, so, undoing all the bad habits he had developed while being allowed to roam, and still adjusting to the pro game, it takes time at a position that is one of the hardest in the game.

But hey, it doesn't mean anything because Lombardi said it, right?

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10-09-2011, 11:02 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That's big talk for a one-eyed fat man.

How many Jack Adam's has Lombardi won?


Im aware of the talk about Johnson being allowed to do whatever he felt like, I cant say since I didnt follow the program, but talking **** about a legend like Berenson isnt surprising, considering the source.

If Lombardi truly felt that way, one has to wonder why he traded for him in the first place.
Lombardi doesn't coach.

And the talk is true, Michigan has been like that for a while. Players use their talent, their roster is usually full of it. It's like youth hockey where the good players just roam everywhere. DL should have said "Michigan is the worst - for getting defensmen NHL ready", and he wouldn't have sounded so bad there.

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10-09-2011, 11:04 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
He was traded for in 2005, and Lombardi said last year he was just starting to get it, so, undoing all the bad habits he had developed while being allowed to roam, and still adjusting to the pro game, it takes time at a position that is one of the hardest in the game.

But hey, it doesn't mean anything because Lombardi said it, right?
And he still makes bad decisions with the puck and is out of position a good amount of time. It's just starting to become automatic for him.

He really has improved a ton though. This is the first season that I have had high expectations from him.

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10-09-2011, 11:20 PM
  #168
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Maybe Berenson was playing to Johnson's strengths?

Isnt that what good coaches do?

The Kings have a very defensive coach/system.

Is that playing to Johnson's strengths?

Who is the good/bad coach in this equation?

One that recognizes a player's strengths and uses them accordingly?

Or one that tries to get them to play away from their strengths and focuses on making them play to their weaknesses?

What kind of gm throws a player's college coach under the bus after they have already played three and a half years for their team?

Im sorry, but that is ****ing ridiculous, and should be called out as such.

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10-09-2011, 11:20 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How many Jack Adam's has Lombardi won?

Why would a college coach care about development? They aren't paid to develop NHL players. They're paid to get to the NCAA and roll into the frozen four.

You get a guy with the talent of Jack Johnson it's better to have him run around and be successful just because of pure physical ability. Having to take the time to build the on ice awareness and positioning just means losing a year or two as he figures it out. You don't have a year or two with a 1st round pick. Even JJ who loved college wasn't going to be around long enough to train. So it's throw him on the ice and know that in the college game that level of talent out-weights training.

I think Major Juniors are a better route for prospects. It's in the best interests of a junior team to work on the prospects like the NHL team wants them to do. They make more in the long-run due to that level of connection. College doesn't need to care.

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10-09-2011, 11:28 PM
  #170
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No idea why anyone would want to get rid of Jack Johnson right now. NJ would want way more than Jack For Zach. Zach also would probably not stay here, East coast boy for sure.

No idea why people want to get rid of players that Want to play for the Kings, and are talented.


Last edited by damacles1156: 10-09-2011 at 11:46 PM.
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10-09-2011, 11:51 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
No idea why people want to get rid of players that Want to play for the Kings, and are talented.
To get players that want to play for the Kings and are even more talented/needed maybe?

But I wouldn't try to trade Johnson now, it doesn't make much sense to me.

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10-09-2011, 11:59 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Maybe Berenson was playing to Johnson's strengths?

Isnt that what good coaches do?

The Kings have a very defensive coach/system.

Is that playing to Johnson's strengths?

Who is the good/bad coach in this equation?

One that recognizes a player's strengths and uses them accordingly?

Or one that tries to get them to play away from their strengths and focuses on making them play to their weaknesses?

What kind of gm throws a player's college coach under the bus after they have already played three and a half years for their team?

Im sorry, but that is ****ing ridiculous, and should be called out as such.
There are some points in here I agree with. DL was calling out Michigan but he was sticking up for Jack and giving him a vote of confience in saying just how far he has come despite the Michigan issue.

I also agree with the fact that LA isn't really the place for Jack since their scheme doesn't play to his strengths. He's thinking so much out there, afraid to make mistakes as opposed to being a natural player. The fact that LA has come out and says that they want Jack to be a defense first player this year is saddling a stalion. Again, making him play his weak side is mind boggling considering that he is the pairs puck mover and he has to focus on his backhand passing. Scuderi is just as good at that side without the need to push the puck.

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10-10-2011, 12:06 AM
  #173
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is this how this place is going to be this season? JJ scores the game winner in game 1, game 2 we lose and people want him traded?

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10-10-2011, 12:12 AM
  #174
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is this how this place is going to be this season? JJ scores the game winner in game 1, game 2 we lose and people want him traded?
You bet , Welcome to Kings HF board.

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10-10-2011, 12:29 AM
  #175
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is this how this place is going to be this season? JJ scores the game winner in game 1, game 2 we lose and people want him traded?
Manic phase of bipolar disorder. The meds arent working like they did in the offseason

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