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Old
10-17-2011, 10:16 PM
  #76
salomonster
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Originally Posted by exv91 View Post
I disagree. Everytime I see a bad turnover in our own end, or see a defenceman standing around, or a defenceman miss his assignment it seems number four is never far away. He has never lived up to his first overall draft pick status, much less the salary he makes. I was not happy to see him renewed last year, I thought Murray made a huge mistake.
Phillips is a core guy. You can't purge more guys. Makes not sense.

Get ride of Kuba and or Gonchar way before Phillips.

We need some stay at home D somewhere.

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10-17-2011, 10:16 PM
  #77
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I couldn't agree more. I don't think Phillips was that that great in his prime so it's no surprise that at at age 32 he has become a very marginal NHLer. Bryan Murray has an unfortunate history of overpaying for defensemen at the tail end of their careers...Gonchar, Phillips, Kuba, Jason Smith, Luke Richardson (Richardson did come cheap but he had nothing left). Phillips has his supporters but I don't understand how anyone can defend his play the last couple of years. He's a turnover machine with minimal skills or intensity.
He was though. He was pratically mistake free and just a rock. Good skater, good first pass, big, physical, took away time and space. He was the complete package minus a point shot and ability to rush with the puck. It's unfortunate that he's now playing like a third pairing defenseman.

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10-17-2011, 10:18 PM
  #78
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3M$ and overpaid in the same sentence... lulz I guess

The salary cap is ONLY 64.3 M$ I suppose and 3M$ is a lot more than the average salary! Oops it's actually BELOW the average (which is 3.215)

Is Phillips an average player now? Maybe, but he is paid as an average player too... Open your eyes kids and stop complaining for a minute.

At least I know Old time Sens fans won't dis Phillips, he's done way too much for this organization. Much respect to you Chris.

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10-17-2011, 10:26 PM
  #79
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Philips did pretty good later last year when he was paired up with Lee. Why isn't be paired with Lee now?

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10-18-2011, 01:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
3M$ and overpaid in the same sentence... lulz I guess

The salary cap is ONLY 64.3 M$ I suppose and 3M$ is a lot more than the average salary! Oops it's actually BELOW the average (which is 3.215)

Is Phillips an average player now? Maybe, but he is paid as an average player too... Open your eyes kids and stop complaining for a minute.

At least I know Old time Sens fans won't dis Phillips, he's done way too much for this organization. Much respect to you Chris.



I am an original sens fan. I was a Habs fan for many years before that. Believing that Chris Phillips is a liability and a horrible signing has nothing to do with being an Old time or a recent Sens fan. It's simply based on watching his play deteriorate steadily for the last couple of seasons just the way I've witnessed hundreds of other players regress as they get older. Some last longer than others. I suspect the only thing that will keep Phillips in the league for another four years is that he has a signed contract. No team is well served by keeping players around past their "best before" dates. Mark my words..... everyone will be bemoaning that contract long before it expires.

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10-18-2011, 01:21 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
[/B]Mark my words..... everyone will be bemoaning that contract long before it expires.
I bemoaned it the day it was signed...

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Old
10-19-2011, 09:15 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
[/B]


I am an original sens fan. I was a Habs fan for many years before that. Believing that Chris Phillips is a liability and a horrible signing has nothing to do with being an Old time or a recent Sens fan. It's simply based on watching his play deteriorate steadily for the last couple of seasons just the way I've witnessed hundreds of other players regress as they get older. Some last longer than others. I suspect the only thing that will keep Phillips in the league for another four years is that he has a signed contract. No team is well served by keeping players around past their "best before" dates.
I think it explains everything then...

Yes, Chris Phillips is not in his prime anymore but he isn't as bad as you make him out to be. Instead of being a #2 D-man, he is now an average D-man (which is #4 or #5 on a good team) and is paid accordingly which is the NHL average salary of 3M$ (that's what Colby Armstrong earns)

And since the Sens are in rebuild mode right now, he has a lot more pressure and responsability than he should normally have... He would look much better on a contending team or just a good team in a role that fits him better; like Campoli, Kelly, Fisher and even Kovalev did after the trade deadline last year.

The reason he was signed is simply to take pressure OFF guys like Cowen, Karlsson and Rundblad who are still very young and have a lot to learn.

We could have signed a better UFA instead? Maybe, maybe not, but at least not for 3M$ per season...

First, who wants to come to Ottawa right now? lol. Then, why take a guy who has no roots with the team instead? So he can suck playing here, downgrade his career and become just another whipping boy? Sounds like a great idea.

PS : If you have **** to spew, at least try to get the facts correctly. Phillips contract is 3 years, not 4. He has 2 years left after this season, which could coincide with the time the Sens start contending again. Reasonning is cool, isn't?

Quote:
Mark my words..... everyone will be bemoaning that contract long before it expires.
Sorry but it will only be people who can't think longer than the end of their nose... but I know you're not alone, don't worry.

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Old
10-19-2011, 09:24 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
I think it explains everything then...

Yes, Chris Phillips is not in his prime anymore but he isn't as bad as you make him out to be. Instead of being a #2 D-man, he is now an average D-man (which is #4 or #5 on a good team) and is paid accordingly which is the NHL average salary of 3M$ (that's what Colby Armstrong earns)

And since the Sens are in rebuild mode right now, he has a lot more pressure and responsability than he should normally have... He would look much better on a contending team or just a good team in a role that fits him better; like Campoli, Kelly, Fisher and even Kovalev did after the trade deadline last year.

The reason he was signed is simply to take pressure OFF guys like Cowen, Karlsson and Rundblad who are still very young and have a lot to learn.

We could have signed a better UFA instead? Maybe, maybe not, but at least not for 3M$ per season...

First, who wants to come to Ottawa right now? lol. Then, why take a guy who has no roots with the team instead? So he can suck playing here, downgrade his career and become just another whipping boy? Sounds like a great idea.

PS : If you have **** to spew, at least try to get the facts correctly. Phillips contract is 3 years, not 4. He has 2 years left after this season, which could coincide with the time the Sens start contending again. Reasonning is cool, isn't?



Sorry but it will only be people who can't think longer than the end of their nose... but I know you're not alone, don't worry.
Didn't you hear? There were tonnes of experienced veteran defencemen available during FA that would sign here for the 3 years, $3 million.

Oh wait...there were none. Look at Montreal. They lost Hamrlik and have not been able to replace him and their team defence is a mess. The Rangers are seriously missing Staal but there was nothing on the market to be an adequate replacement. Both those teams would take Phillips in a heartbeat.

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Old
10-19-2011, 09:34 AM
  #84
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As was said earlier, paying Phillips $3 million for the next 3 years isn't going to hurt us, given the considerable rise in the cap over the last few years. As Karlsson, Cowen, Rundblad and Lee continue to develop, along with the possible addition of Wiercioch/Borowiecki/Gryba/etc., having Phillips along as a veteran leader playing 3rd-pairing minutes can only be beneficial.

And to everyone "bemoaning" Phillips' continued presence on this team, deal with it. If only we could offer our players a shred of support.

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Old
10-19-2011, 10:14 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
Didn't you hear? There were tonnes of experienced veteran defencemen available during FA that would sign here for the 3 years, $3 million.

Oh wait...there were none. Look at Montreal. They lost Hamrlik and have not been able to replace him and their team defence is a mess. The Rangers are seriously missing Staal but there was nothing on the market to be an adequate replacement. Both those teams would take Phillips in a heartbeat.
I'm secretly hoping Phillips gets traded at the deadline. It would be good for him and his career to move to a playoffs team. I know he loves being here so much, but if he isn't appreciated anymore, why would he stay? He would look much better in a well structured system and with less pressure/responsability playing 2nd PK and 2nd pairing minutes.

But ya, let's piss on the guys who bleed and breathe for the Sens. Next : Chris Neil!

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10-19-2011, 10:57 AM
  #86
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If Phillips stuck around to be a leader then perhaps he should put in the same kind of effort/ intensity as Neil.
I dont expect him to be Phillips of 3 or 4 years ago ability wise but if he's not he'd better be upping the mental or desire parts.
Frankly Phillips is soft mentally and physically now and IMO $3 million or $1 million it doesnt matter - they should have thanked him for his years of service and let him move on.
Takes up too much air in the lockeroom with the A on his chest and his history here for what brings, a #5 ish defenceman with no offence or intensity. All he brings now is longevity. That's not what you want your kids to learn.
Good guy? sure.
I still dont like his influence on the team. I want some intensity or high end skill in my captains and assistants, he brings neither.

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10-19-2011, 01:34 PM
  #87
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Phillips is miscasted right now. He's not the shutdown defender that he once was, and he doesn't play as physical. Hopefully as the youngsters develop, Phillips' ice time will decrease to the 18-minute range.

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10-19-2011, 01:37 PM
  #88
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I still dont like his influence on the team. I want some intensity or high end skill in my captains and assistants, he brings neither.
Unfortunately, his on-ice play is starting to remind me of Hnidy, Leschyshyn, J. Smith, or any of those other older physical guys who just aren't intimidating anymore.

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10-19-2011, 02:05 PM
  #89
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I guess I was one of the very few here who wanted Murray to re-sign Volchenkov instead of Phillips. I said back then that Phillips was regressing & that his play could be replaced. However, with the regression of Gonchar & Kuba's injury woes & the youngsters who were suppose to challenge for roster spots, it seems to me that Murray didn't have much choice but had to keep another veteran around not to mention his status in the community. I was against his signing but I understood why he did it & why bring in another veteran when you already have one. Unfortunatley for this team though Phillips play continues to digress & his give aways & plus minus continue to grow.

The Sens have three veteran defencemen who's skills are all regressing at the same time, can't get much worse then that. Also the way things are in the NHL it's likely they won't be able to rid themselves of these guys until their contracts are almost up. Kuba should be traded at the trade deadline this yr if they can find someone to take him or he will just be let go at yr's end. Same for Gonchar next yr unless he retires before that which I doubt & Phillips the yr after.

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Old
10-19-2011, 02:14 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
Phillips is miscasted right now. He's not the shutdown defender that he once was, and he doesn't play as physical. Hopefully as the youngsters develop, Phillips' ice time will decrease to the 18-minute range.
I agree. He'd still be a very effective player if he was playing 15 to 18 minutes a game on a playoff team.

Unfortunately, we're rebuilding and not very many players can handle big ice time or have proven thus far they don't deserve a lot of ice time so Phillips is still playing more then 20 minutes because while he's playing poorly, he hasn't been in the bottom 3 for our worst defenceman imo which is sad.

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10-19-2011, 02:15 PM
  #91
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Phillips is playing too much. Reducing his minutes will help him play better. It is still too early to lean on the kids. By the 20 game mark I would like to see him playing around 12 minutes per game

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10-19-2011, 02:22 PM
  #92
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By the 20 game mark I would like to see him playing around 12 minutes per game
When Preissing was a 3rd pairing guy playing limited PP, he still had 14 minutes a game.

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10-19-2011, 02:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Unfortunately, his on-ice play is starting to remind me of Hnidy, Leschyshyn, J. Smith, or any of those other older physical guys who just aren't intimidating anymore.
Funny, I did think of Leschyshyn when watching Phillips last night. I guess Curtis was even more of a stay-at-home guy. But the similarity for me with the players you listed was how Phillips these days looks totally embarrassed when he gets the puck in the offensive zone, and he just wants to get rid of it as soon as possible. Whatever he does, the puck typically ends up landing softly on an opponent's stick and the offensive opportunity dies right there.

Phillips was never exactly an offensive guy, but he used to exercise much better judgment and patience. I think his confidence is shot, and he's carrying his defensive struggles to the offensive zone.

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10-19-2011, 03:00 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Unfortunately, his on-ice play is starting to remind me of Hnidy, Leschyshyn, J. Smith, or any of those other older physical guys who just aren't intimidating anymore.
The thing about Phillips is he was exposed last year. When you're used to playing with Chara and Volchenkov- how much ice do you really have to cover? Certainly no more than 50%.

In a perfect world, you pair an offensive guy with a defensive guy. That way they compliment each other. Now we need Phillips paired with Lee so he can look good, and we put Cowen on with Gonchar- whom had always been insulated by a steadying partner. Not really fair to either our rookie shut-down guy, or our big $$$ PMD.

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10-19-2011, 03:41 PM
  #95
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I was not too excited about re-signing Phillips after his play last season but maybe small things would make him more successful. He uses his upper body to pin guys behind the net but his stick is often up in the air and the opponents stick is not tied up. The puck is right at his feet but he's in no position to play it and he ends up losing the battle. He rarely knocks guys on their keister because he expends a lot of energy pushing and holding them up against the back boards where they are well supported instead of hitting them from the side to separate them from the puck. Phillips needs to change his style to use more lower body strength when working guys on the boards and keep his stupid stick down on the ice.

Often he makes the right read but the play still ends badly. Weird how some guys have a black cloud over their head. When he makes a small mistake it seems to always end up in a good scoring chance or a goal against.

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10-19-2011, 05:57 PM
  #96
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I for one am still happy for Phillips...

Sure, this isn't his best season... But I'd like to see you maintain a high standard in the NHL for a fair few years.

Phillips CAN be better, I won't lie... He just needs the right kind of partner...

aka Brian Lee.

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10-19-2011, 06:03 PM
  #97
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When he makes a small mistake it seems to always end up in a good scoring chance or a goal against.
yup, more like goals against.

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10-19-2011, 06:39 PM
  #98
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The thing about Phillips is he was exposed last year. When you're used to playing with Chara and Volchenkov- how much ice do you really have to cover? Certainly no more than 50%.

In a perfect world, you pair an offensive guy with a defensive guy. That way they compliment each other. Now we need Phillips paired with Lee so he can look good, and we put Cowen on with Gonchar- whom had always been insulated by a steadying partner. Not really fair to either our rookie shut-down guy, or our big $$$ PMD.
Is it possible you really don't see what the problems are with the Sens???

Last year Phillips was paired with Karlsson, Gonchar, and Carkner. He was being asked to play shutdown minutes with offensive dmen or a player that just wasn't fast enough to be in that role.

He also played in front of a goaltender that couldn't stop a beachball, consider doing that while facing the best forwards in the game.

When Clouston finally let Lee out of the press box, Phillips had someone that was defensively responsible to help, and his play appeared to get much better. While I agree the results improved, Phillips was pretty much the same player throughout.

This year, Phillips is still being asked to play against the top lines with a combination of Lee and Runblad. He is also playing behind eight guys that have less than a year's experience in the NHL. Unfortunately the goaltending has reminded me of last year as well.

I don't believe there are many defencemen that would look very good in similar circumstances to Phillips. While he may not be waht he was in his prime, he is still pretty good and I am sure many teams would love to have him.

I really don't understand the veteran D hate on this board, many of the broken plays or blown coverage resulting in goals, haven't been the fault of the defence.

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10-19-2011, 06:41 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Is it possible you really don't see what the problems are with the Sens???

Last year Phillips was paired with Karlsson, Gonchar, and Carkner. He was being asked to play shutdown minutes with offensive dmen or a player that just wasn't fast enough to be in that role.

He also played in front of a goaltender that couldn't stop a beachball, consider doing that while facing the best forwards in the game.

When Clouston finally let Lee out of the press box, Phillips had someone that was defensively responsible to help, and his play appeared to get much better. While I agree the results improved, Phillips was pretty much the same player throughout.

This year, Phillips is still being asked to play against the top lines with a combination of Lee and Runblad. He is also playing behind eight guys that have less than a year's experience in the NHL. Unfortunately the goaltending has reminded me of last year as well.

I don't believe there are many defencemen that would look very good in similar circumstances to Phillips. While he may not be waht he was in his prime, he is still pretty good and I am sure many teams would love to have him.

I really don't understand the veteran D hate on this board, most of the broken plays or blown coverage resulting in goals, haven't been the fault of the defence.
fixed

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Old
10-19-2011, 07:55 PM
  #100
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Since we are rebuilding and are barely over the cap floor, there is no reason to be upset by his contract length or price. We have plenty of space and monmey to keep him around.

I think the problem here is that Phillips plays top pairing minutes and he is clearly no longer the workhorse that he was.

If Karlsson, Cowen and Rundblad continue to progress, I don't think anyone would be upset with Philips on the 2nd or 3rd pairing....

Cowen - Karlsson
Lee/Carkner/Kuba/Gonchar/FA/Prospect - Rundblad
Phillips - Lee

I guarantee that Borowiecki is going to be in the lineup at some point next year...

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