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Langkow to Calgary, Nedved-Gauthier-Saprykin to Phoenix (link)
I said changes from the team that played in the finals. Reinprecht did not play in the finals and neither did Lombardi.
And how can you say that Langkow is the only addition when Simon, Nilson & Nieminen came over at the deadline ?? They only played a hand full of games in a Flames uniform. They ARE additions when talking about the Flames playoffs hopes, seeing as they managed to make the playoffs without them guys last year.
Kiprusoff, Nilson, Simon, Nieminen, Wiemer, Langkow, Reinprecht did not play anything close to a full season with the Flames last year.
The only downgrade around here seems to occur daily and its your hockey knowledge I'm talking about.
Quite easily, since I am talking about all the off-season moves, you take the whole year into account, probably because then you can make your point better. Strictly talking addition/substraction wise over the current off-season, the Flames haven't done a lot to improve themselves. They already did so during the deadline and over the course of the season/playoffs in general.
Strictly talking addition/substraction wise over the current off-season, the Flames haven't done a lot to improve themselves. They already did so during the deadline and over the course of the season/playoffs in general.
25 players cannot play at the same time. They had to get rid of a few guys. They had so many injuries that now that everyone is healthy, too many players. That is why you see more players on their way out than on their way in. Numbers.
My point was that the Flames are a better team now than they were last year, plain and simple.
Ofcourse they would, but I wouldn't consider him an addition..
LOL hilarious.
So you wouldn't say.. "Well Arnott was injured for the entire playoff run, but we have him back this season, so we should be better with him in the lineup"
That is an addition through injury, if you don't use the word then fine, but its just semantics.
Ofcourse they would, but I wouldn't consider him an addition..
If Arnott missed half the season and the entire playoffs, and you had people here saying the Stars would be no better than last year, you surely would mention that they did not have Arnott for the year.
First off guys, knock off the personal insults. I'm supposed to be the volatile one around here!
Second, I think the truth is probably in the middle here. The Flames COULD fail to repeat. But, there situation really isn't like the Ducks or Canes. The Canes simply weren't that talented and rode a good forechecking system and goaltending to a surprising final. The Ducks were stronger, in my view, but their defense did not take the next step up, and they re-wrote their forward lineup after the playoffs.
The Flames, on the other hand, have sustained ONE significant loss but also added a couple of important components.
Assuming the goaltending repeats (and, I agree, that is an assumption) they've got an excellent young defense, top notch netminding, a strong set of physical and gritty and physical forwards, and a discplined system that maximizes the return from these players. The only weakness I see here is a POSSIBLE lack of firepower. But, otherwise, I see no reason why this team can't go to the finals again.
Just my opinion, of course, and I am quite prepared to be wrong.
If Arnott missed half the season and the entire playoffs, and you had people here saying the Stars would be no better than last year, you surely would mention that they did not have Arnott for the year.
Most certainly he would, he just doesn't want to admit it so he is argueing the semantics of a word in order to get the leg up on this discussion. It is rather hilarious in my mind.
The Flames are going to have a full season of Simon, Nilson, and Nemo. Then add in off season additions of Wiemer, Langkow, and Ritchie. Then you add in injured guys who played half the season in Reinprecht, then you add in the fact that Miika Kiprusoff gets to play more then 38 games this time around.
First off guys, knock off the personal insults. I'm supposed to be the volatile one around here!
Second, I think the truth is probably in the middle here. The Flames COULD fail to repeat. But, there situation really isn't like the Ducks or Canes. The Canes simply weren't that talented and rode a good forechecking system and goaltending to a surprising final. The Ducks were stronger, in my view, but their defense did not take the next step up, and they re-wrote their forward lineup after the playoffs.
The Flames, on the other hand, have sustained ONE significant loss but also added a couple of important components.
Assuming the goaltending repeats (and, I agree, that is an assumption) they've got an excellent young defense, top notch netminding, a strong set of physical and gritty and physical forwards, and a discplined system that maximizes the return from these players. The only weakness I see here is a POSSIBLE lack of firepower. But, otherwise, I see no reason why this team can't go to the finals again.
Just my opinion, of course, and I am quite prepared to be wrong.
Darth, the voice of reason? My god, I need to go lay down...
If Arnott missed half the season and the entire playoffs, and you had people here saying the Stars would be no better than last year, you surely would mention that they did not have Arnott for the year.
He would, but I can see his point. In terms of the organizations offseason, theyre not adding him to the organization. A guy like Reinprecht is an addition in terms of on-ice play, but not an addition in terms of the organization. M=G is looking at the offseason in terms of who the Flames add/lost in terms of the organization not who played in the finals. Does that make sense to everyone?
Also in terms of chemistry, I think the loss of Conroy could hurt the Flames. He was a leader in the locker room wearing one of the As and being the captain until he gave it to Iginla. Also Conroy and Iginla have played together for some time and built up some chemistry where both know where the other is going to be and what the other is thinking at certain points. The leadership role may be something Langkow lacks and whoever centers Iginla may lack the chemistry that he and Conroy had. All in all, this is a pretty good discussion without people insulting each other too bad.
You can sure tell it nice.. Reinprecht and Lombardi are no additions. Just because they were injuried doesn't mean they weren't Calgary Flames. They were playing most of the time and had a fair share in the Flames succes.
Basicly, you lost Conroy, Gauthier, Saprykin and Oliwa, while gaining Langkow. To me, that's a downgrade.
Cmon, you watch enough hockey and make enough solid comments on these boards to know that the final stats aren't the whole story. As someone who watched each and every game of the Ducks playoff run fiercely, I can tell you that the team made the run DESPITE Kariya's play. Ah, actually thats a bit of an overstatement. He played incredibly safe defensively. So much so that yes, he was invisible. Considering the ice time that he got in the playoffs, and the fact that he played in each and every offensive situation, its not terribly impressive that he finished second in team scoring (21-6-6-12...wow).
So what you're saying is that the Ducks made the finals despite the play of Kariya...then you turn around and say he was solid defensively while being an inconsistent force offensively? (Which, I might add, describes the entire Ducks team from that season). What more do you want?
It's not like he disappeared when the games got physically tough (Scott Stevens, anybody?). He also scored several big goals, most notably the triple OT winner in game 1 vs Detroit - arguably the catalyst of the entire run. Plus the two goal performance in game 6 of the finals. Frankly, it was obvious to me that Kariya was the most important Duck not named Giguere that season.
Okay, maybe Giguere and Carney.
Anyways, the Prospal-Fedorov chemistry was there towards the end of the season, but there's no denying that both players had awful seasons, considering what they had recently accomplished. However, that's not what I meant. The Ducks never recovered from the gut-check when Kariya bolted for peanuts in Denver, and that was what sunk them last season. Nothing like that has occurred on Calgary this summer.
Assuming the goaltending repeats (and, I agree, that is an assumption) they've got an excellent young defense, top notch netminding, a strong set of physical and gritty and physical forwards, and a discplined system that maximizes the return from these players. The only weakness I see here is a POSSIBLE lack of firepower. But, otherwise, I see no reason why this team can't go to the finals again.
They're also going to outwork their opponents more often than not.
So what you're saying is that the Ducks made the finals despite the play of Kariya...then you turn around and say he was solid defensively while being an inconsistent force offensively? (Which, I might add, describes the entire Ducks team from that season). What more do you want?
It's not like he disappeared when the games got physically tough (Scott Stevens, anybody?). He also scored several big goals, most notably the triple OT winner in game 1 vs Detroit - arguably the catalyst of the entire run. Plus the two goal performance in game 6 of the finals. Frankly, it was obvious to me that Kariya was the most important Duck not named Giguere that season.
Okay, maybe Giguere and Carney.
Anyways, the Prospal-Fedorov chemistry was there towards the end of the season, but there's no denying that both players had awful seasons, considering what they had recently accomplished. However, that's not what I meant. The Ducks never recovered from the gut-check when Kariya bolted for peanuts in Denver, and that was what sunk them last season. Nothing like that has occurred on Calgary this summer.
I immediately recinded my statement saying the Ducks won DESPITE Kariya. However, I didn't say he was solid defensively, I said he was safe defensively. He never asserted himself offensively. He basically spent the entire playoffs making sure he didn't get caught deep. He had a nice little playoffs...for a third liner. However, as the offensive leader of the team, thats not all you ask from a player like Kariya. He was far from the most important Duck, adding Rucchin and Niedermayer's names in front of his. He had a stunning performance after being knocked out by Stevens. He had a good first series. Thats it. From the "best" player on the team, I'd expect a lot more.
To say it was Kariya bolting that doomed them is simplistic. Giguere's play had more to do with it than anything, and that had little to do with Kariya and everything to do with the extended contract negotiations in the summer, a short training camp, and simply not being on his game. Then its the injuries that took its toll on very key members of the team's core at very inopportune times. These are two things that could doom the Flames as well. If Kipper stumbles in finding the magic he had last season, and if they suffer a couple of key injuries for extended periods of time, they aren't the sort of elite team that can overcome it in my eyes. After the goaltending problems and injuries, then comes chemistry problems up front and the difficulty Prospal, and to a lesser extend Fedorov, had in meshing in. Fedorov was actually far from awful. A slow start, but he was the best Duck most nights. Prospal was disappointing.
Its just way too inaccurate to say that the Ducks fell because of Kariya leaving and the turnover up front, therefore since the Flames don't have the same degree of turnover they will again make their run. There was more to the Ducks fall to that, and should the Flames run into the same problems, they won't fair all that much better. Theres nothing to say tha the Flames won't make another run, and to suggest that they were a fluke is silly. However, all I'm saying is that they aren't a Wings sort of team that can suffer a few slumps or key injuries and keep ticking right along. I think the Flames will probably make the playoffs, and then who knows what can happen, but I think its far from a lock, especially considering how tight it is in the West.
I knew Saprykin wouldn't last in Calgary the moment Darryl Sutter was named GM. Didn't think it would take this long, though. Color me highly impressed by this latest move by the Flames braintrust.
You "Flames aren't getting younger!" naysayers can go drink a tall glass of Reality. Replacing Gauthier, Saprykin and Conroy with Langkow and Commodore *is* getting younger. Is it getting better? Time will tell, but Calgary has one of the top three groups of forwards in the Western Conference at this point, IMO:
Also, today is quite a kick in the balls for Oilers fans, no? They lose out on Nedved, and Calgary looks even more dangerous (at least, they will as soon as they get Jarome Iginla under contract).
As for Phoenix, well, I'd have sent some of that UFA money to fix their goaltending situation. Boucher/Johnson? *barf*
a team with chris simon on its top line has one of the top 3 forward groups?
. Then its the injuries that took its toll on very key members of the team's core at very inopportune times. These are two things that could doom the Flames as well. If Kipper stumbles in finding the magic he had last season, and if they suffer a couple of key injuries for extended periods of time, they aren't the sort of elite team that can overcome it in my eyes.
Ummm...they just went through ALL that last year and during the playoffs. They DID overcome this very scenario.
Kiprusoff started only 38 games....Turek was injured for 3 months. Jamie McLennan played through a broken sternum because he was the last line of defense available.
Calgary had a brutal rash of injuries last year...but continued to hold it together.
Conroy missed 19 games
Yelle missed 29 games
McCammond missed 18 games and the entire playoffs
Reinprecht missed 38 games and the entire playoffs
Lydman missed 15 games and 20 games in the playoffs
Gauthier missed 20 games in the playoffs
Simon missed 10 games in the playoffs
Lombardi missed 13 games in the playoffs
Donovan and Warrener both missed a couple playoff games as well.
Thats 119 man games missed from starters in the playoffs alone.
Yeah, id say they can and HAVE faced adversity and pulled through it just fine thanks.
Ummm...they just went through ALL that last year and during the playoffs. They DID overcome this very scenario.
Kiprusoff started only 38 games....Turek was injured for 3 months. Jamie McLennan played through a broken sternum because he was the last line of defense available.
Calgary had a brutal rash of injuries last year...but continued to hold it together.
Conroy missed 19 games
Yelle missed 29 games
McCammond missed 18 games and the entire playoffs
Reinprecht missed 38 games and the entire playoffs
Lydman missed 15 games and 20 games in the playoffs
Gauthier missed 20 games in the playoffs
Simon missed 10 games in the playoffs
Lombardi missed 13 games in the playoffs
Donovan and Warrener both missed a couple playoff games as well.
Thats 119 man games missed from starters in the playoffs alone.
Yeah, id say they can and HAVE faced adversity and pulled through it just fine thanks.
Ridiculous claim you made.
Last year's team made it through quite nicely, but I'd argue that its no guarantee that this years team would, especially with teams such as the Yotes looking stronger and ready to contend for playoff spots. You make a good point, but my point is far from ridiculous.
I don't really know what Flames fans, supporters, whatever, want to hear. That they are absolute locks for the playoffs and an elite team? I'm sorry, I'm not convinced. They are a strong team. They had a great playoffs last year, a solid regular season. I think they're poised to do the same this season. The only point I'm making is that they aren't all that superior to the Ducks team that went into last season and faltered, and the same pitfalls could befall them. I don't see whats so ridiculous about that.
Last year's team made it through quite nicely, but I'd argue that its no guarantee that this years team would, especially with teams such as the Yotes looking stronger and ready to contend for playoff spots. You make a good point, but my point is far from ridiculous.
I don't really know what Flames fans, supporters, whatever, want to hear. That they are absolute locks for the playoffs and an elite team? I'm sorry, I'm not convinced. They are a strong team. They had a great playoffs last year, a solid regular season. I think they're poised to do the same this season. The only point I'm making is that they aren't all that superior to the Ducks team that went into last season and faltered, and the same pitfalls could befall them. I don't see whats so ridiculous about that.
I haven't read the whole thread but who is saying the Flames are "elite" and a "guarantee"
All i can see is Flames fans pointing out that they went threw huge injury problems last year and still finished with 42 wins. As a Flames fan,looking back at it now, it was amazing what Sutter did with that team threw all the troubles.
I haven't read the whole thread but who is saying the Flames are "elite" and a "guarantee"
All i can see is Flames fans pointing out that they went threw huge injury problems last year and still finished with 42 wins. As a Flames fan,looking back at it now, it was amazing what Sutter did with that team threw all the troubles.
Maybe they ARE elite!!
I got involved in the conversation when Darth suggested that the Flames were a lock for a playoff spot. Darth's a smart guy, so I challenged him to justify the statement. That was about 300 pages ago, and its rolled on since then. I've admitted that the Flames are a solid team, I have no problem with that. They did do a great job last season. All I am saying is that this lineup is solid but not infalliable. The part that most can't seem to come to grips with is my suggestion that they aren't all that much better than the Ducks were going into last season. Thats not a knock on the Flames, I think the Flames are solid, just as I thought the Ducks were as well. Just that the Ducks ran into troubles beyond their control for the most part, and if the Flames run into similar problems they could be in similar amounts of trouble. I don't see how that's so wrong.
