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Old
09-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #1
Gump Hasek
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Far Too Negative...

I rarely start threads here but felt a need to vent. I've sensed a bit of an overwhelmingly negative vibe on this board of late that in reality stems from just a minor subset of Jets fans. This negativity doesn't really come from most of the hardcore hockey fans and season ticket holders that I personally interact with on a daily basis however, but rather it seems more confined to places like HF and twitter, online social media where some fans have written their own scripts for how the season will unfold - prior to game one.

I'm an optimist, sue me. Here we go...

"Noel is a terrible coach and should be fired immediately".
Noel has actually done quite well the past two seasons with weak rosters. He has been given the chance to work with an improved squad this year and that has yet to play itself out.

"Scheifele needs to start as the #2 center beside Kane. Noel is going to ruin that kid."
The fastest way to ruin the kid would be to place him into a high pressure slot right off the bat and watch him fail. It seems logical that they'd start him at #3 and then let him try to supplant the current #2 center with strong play. He needs to work his way up in the order and take the job versus have it given to him. That is the path to his success. In reality he doesn't have to be ready to play in the #2 spot until next season when Jokinen is gone.

"The team is terrible and will finish last."
They've actually upgraded their forwards quite nicely. Last season it was just LLW & Kane; this season they can theoretically ice three balanced forward lines that will push the offense. The lone glaring question mark is in goal now IMO, but I feel that Pavelec's past numbers were in part subject to... were a reflection of quite poor defensive team play in front of him. Hopefully they'll tighten up a bit in their own zone this season.

"Hainsey leaving was a huge loss."
Hainsey was in reality actually just a bottom-pair guy that performed admirably when called upon last season in a higher role due injuries. At the end of the day though he was a 5/6 guy that will likely be replaced on the roster by Trouba - a potential franchise d-man down the road. That isn't a loss, FYI.

This thread will probably die quickly due that edgy negativity seems to be the order of the day. That said, that are as many reasons to be positive about the coming year as there are negative talking points (the ones that are seemingly constantly belabored here). The franchise is gaining depth on the NHL roster and has begun building depth at the AHL level with homegrown players as the new management's draft picks have begun to enter the system. They may or may not make the playoffs this season, but they are taking the sort of incremental steps required to become a perennial threat down the road. Step away from the ledge, the future looks fairly bright.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 09-26-2013 at 09:34 AM.
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Old
09-26-2013, 09:36 AM
  #2
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I have to admit that my own optimism has waned some since TC started. A couple weeks ago, I was confident we were playoff bound this year. Right now I'm leaning towards that being unlikely, and I'm nervous this may actually be a worse season than the past two. I don't exactly know why. Part of it is that my feelings about Noel have changed a bit. I like him, and I felt till recently that he could get the job done, but I've had some issues with the line-ups he's been putting out there in the PS games. Mainly, I just don't understand why the KSS line has disappeared after putting up 5 points in the first game. Its not like they had another game and tanked. I don't think that line has had more than a period since that first game - and I thought they looked real good in the first game. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to let that line get some real chemistry going in a few games at least. I'm also a little concerned about the fact that "motivation" has come up as an issue in the pre-season already. I'm starting to wonder if this team doesn't need more of an ass-kicker as a coach...

Also, I've developed some nervousness about our "core." Specifically, Wheeler. I'm worried for some reason that he might become the invisible man this year. Don't know why really.

So yeah, personally I am feeling less optimistic. It could just be the jitters though. We need to get off to a good start here for sure so we'll know early on what our post-season prospects are...

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09-26-2013, 09:37 AM
  #3
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I'm with you Gump: I think it's too early to judge where they're going to end up, and I like some of the moves that have been made regarding player personnel. If nothing else, it'll be a fun ride.

I enough negativity in my own life - sports should be fun, no? Although, I can understand why some people are more strident in their want to win immediately.

Win, lose or draw, just entertain me. I think this crew will be able to do that this year: the battle between Jokinen and Scheifele will be fun to watch - I believe that Mark has enough talent and determination to take over that 2C spot at some point this year, and that'll be fun to watch. The hustle of Frolik and Halischuk will be fun to watch this year - I think our PK stands the chance of being one of the best in the league: Ladd, Little, Frolik, Halischuk, Scheifele, Kane sounds good to me. Peluso pushing Thorburn for the face-puncher position. Tangradi actually having to fight for a position should light a fire under his you know what. The possibility that we might have a healthy defense this year give me hope. Trouba will make for a difficult decision for the coaching staff, and for sure, if he's in the A he'll be one of the first call-ups and be hungry. Can LLW repeat their exceptional performance from last year, and get some support on their off-days from the 2nd line?

Lots to be concerned about, but there are many things to be excited about, IMHO.

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09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
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I'll tell you what has me feeling REALLY FRIKKIN NEGATIVE though...this bloody blank white pop-up ad that keeps blocking my entire screen when I visit this forum!!!

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09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
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Oh yeah definitely. I am usually chipper, positive and friendly. But I'm worn down now, and end up getting really pissed off and grumpy when reading these forums. If the goal of the 'negative' poster, is to increase their ranks and make other people negative...congratulations, you've succeeded. Now I've become snarky and antagonistic.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to post horrible and hateful comments on YouTube.

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09-26-2013, 09:47 AM
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Wonko the Sane
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+1 for this thread, it's not all doom and gloom. It will be just fine because....

Spoil:
Noel is an NHL caliber coach.

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09-26-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Oh yeah definitely. I am usually chipper, positive and friendly. But I'm worn down now, and end up getting really pissed off and grumpy when reading these forums. If the goal of the 'negative' poster, is to increase their ranks and make other people negative...congratulations, you've succeeded. Now I've become snarky and antagonistic.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to post horrible and hateful comments on YouTube.
FunkyBunny is that you?

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09-26-2013, 09:49 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it. I'm no psychologist, but it tends to be this way as we build up to something like the start of a season.

A mix of anticipation and frustration as nothing is really happening.

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09-26-2013, 09:50 AM
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I am with you Gump. I am (or really can be) a pretty negative person by trait, but even all that has been going on has even been much for me.

I think Noel has done well (but could do better) considering the roster that he has had to play.

I am however, in the Scheifele shoudl be on the second line with Kane and Setoguchi camp.
I know it was only one game, but it was against a decent Capitals roster against their starting goalie, but I thought he did very well with those guys.
We all know the train wreck that is Jokinen on that line.

The team is terrible and with finish last stuff... I konw this division is nowhere as bad as the south east.... but after chicago and maybe st louis, this division has allot of teams that are pretty close to each other. The Jets could make the playoffs yet.

As for the Hainsey thing.... I dont think I should say anything, as I don't want this thread to go to hell in a hand basket.

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09-26-2013, 09:56 AM
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How optimistic am I? I joined the waitlist primarily because I believe it will give me the best chance to get playoff tickets this year. Are you ready for a white out?

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09-26-2013, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
I'll tell you what has me feeling REALLY FRIKKIN NEGATIVE though...this bloody blank white pop-up ad that keeps blocking my entire screen when I visit this forum!!!
Download adblocker, blocks all pop-ups and even blocks all advertisements on websites, including the annoying 30 second YouTube adds.

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09-26-2013, 10:01 AM
  #12
surixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I rarely start threads here but felt a need to vent. I've sensed a bit of an overwhelmingly negative vibe on this board of late that in reality stems from just a minor subset of Jets fans. This negativity doesn't really come from most of the hardcore hockey fans and season ticket holders that I personally interact with on a daily basis however, but rather it seems more confined to places like HF and twitter, online social media where some fans have written their own scripts for how the season will unfold - prior to game one.

I'm an optimist, sue me. Here we go...

"Noel is a terrible coach and should be fired immediately".
Noel has actually done quite well the past two seasons with weak rosters. He has been given the chance to work with an improved squad this year and that has yet to play itself out.

"Scheifele needs to start as the #2 center beside Kane. Noel is going to ruin that kid."
The fastest way to ruin the kid would be to place him into a high pressure slot right off the bat and watch him fail. It seems logical that they'd start him at #3 and then let him try to supplant the current #2 center with strong play. He needs to work his way up in the order and take the job versus have it given to him. That is the path to his success. In reality he doesn't have to be ready to play in the #2 spot until next season when Jokinen is gone.

"The team is terrible and will finish last."
They've actually upgraded their forwards quite nicely. Last season it was just LLW & Kane; this season they can theoretically ice three balanced forward lines that will push the offense. The lone glaring question mark is in goal now IMO, but I feel that Pavelec's past numbers were in part subject to... were a reflection of quite poor defensive team play in front of him. Hopefully they'll tighten up a bit in their own zone this season.

"Hainsey leaving was a huge loss."
Hainsey was in reality actually just a bottom-pair guy that performed admirably when called upon last season in a higher role due injuries. At the end of the day though he was a 5/6 guy that will likely be replaced on the roster by Trouba - a potential franchise d-man down the road. That isn't a loss, FYI.

This thread will probably die quickly due that edgy negativity seems to be the order of the day. That said, that are as many reasons to be positive about the coming year as there are negative talking points (the ones that are seemingly constantly belabored here). The franchise is gaining depth on the NHL roster and has begun building depth at the AHL level with homegrown players as the new management's draft picks have begun to enter the system. They may or may not make the playoffs this season, but they are taking the sort of incremental steps required to become a perennial threat down the road. Step away from the ledge, the future looks fairly bright.
I'm not overly negative about this team this year as I think they will be in the hunt.

I have defended Noel plenty in the past with regards to Burmie etc.. But I will be critical of him when I don't agree with him. Is he a bad coach, no but he hasn't proven himself to be amongst the best either.

I think he does some things well and is subpar in other aspects. With regards to Scheifele I get wanting him to focus on his defense and I also understand the rationale of breaking him in slowly. I however don't get Noel playing him with offense devoided plugs like Wright that he has been saddled with the last few games. To me it seems that Noel just wants him to play defense which IMO is not correct, he needs to be honing is offense at the same time. To be fair it looks like Noel is going to give him one talented line mate to start in Seto.

My one issue with your post is that you believe Mark shouldn't be handed the 2nd line spot and that's all well and good but Jokinin shouldn't have been handed it either based on his play last year (which he has been). I thought that there should have been an open competition for it this preseason and that never materialized. In Marks one chance he looked excellent and instead seeing how that formation would play out, Noel went back to trying to force Olli with*Kane a combo that doesn't work well. That to me shows an inheriant veteran bias and is poor coaching IMO.

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Old
09-26-2013, 10:02 AM
  #13
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I rarely start threads here but felt a need to vent. I've sensed a bit of an overwhelmingly negative vibe on this board of late that in reality stems from just a minor subset of Jets fans. This negativity doesn't really come from most of the hardcore hockey fans and season ticket holders that I personally interact with on a daily basis however, but rather it seems more confined to places like HF and twitter, online social media where some fans have written their own scripts for how the season will unfold - prior to game one.

I'm an optimist, sue me. Here we go...

"Noel is a terrible coach and should be fired immediately".
Noel has actually done quite well the past two seasons with weak rosters. He has been given the chance to work with an improved squad this year and that has yet to play itself out.

"Scheifele needs to start as the #2 center beside Kane. Noel is going to ruin that kid."
The fastest way to ruin the kid would be to place him into a high pressure slot right off the bat and watch him fail. It seems logical that they'd start him at #3 and then let him try to supplant the current #2 center with strong play. He needs to work his way up in the order and take the job versus have it given to him. That is the path to his success. In reality he doesn't have to be ready to play in the #2 spot until next season when Jokinen is gone.

"The team is terrible and will finish last."
They've actually upgraded their forwards quite nicely. Last season it was just LLW & Kane; this season they can theoretically ice three balanced forward lines that will push the offense. The lone glaring question mark is in goal now IMO, but I feel that Pavelec's past numbers were in part subject to... were a reflection of quite poor defensive team play in front of him. Hopefully they'll tighten up a bit in their own zone this season.

"Hainsey leaving was a huge loss."
Hainsey was in reality actually just a bottom-pair guy that performed admirably when called upon last season in a higher role due injuries. At the end of the day though he was a 5/6 guy that will likely be replaced on the roster by Trouba - a potential franchise d-man down the road. That isn't a loss, FYI.

This thread will probably die quickly due that edgy negativity seems to be the order of the day. That said, that are as many reasons to be positive about the coming year as there are negative talking points (the ones that are seemingly constantly belabored here). The franchise is gaining depth on the NHL roster and has begun building depth at the AHL level with homegrown players as the new management's draft picks have begun to enter the system. They may or may not make the playoffs this season, but they are taking the sort of incremental steps required to become a perennial threat down the road. Step away from the ledge, the future looks fairly bright.
I couldn't agree more, Gump; just don't expect to change rigid minds with your balanced perspective
I'll make two comments, which reflect my own take on this:
1)I might be a little less optimistic than you, in that I give the team a 50/50 shot at the playoffs this year. That is optimism in itself, relative to pundits outside of Winnipeg. But I am very optimistic about the future and embrace the plan for sustained growth, however long it takes. That makes it a lot easier to tolerate imperfection.
2)Relatedly, I am much more annoyed by the 'Fire Noel' talk than I am by the 'Jets are Terrible' attitude. That is because I hate the tendency to scapegoat and demean individuals for complex problems not primarily of their making. This is where sports intersects with the worst in human nature and I have seen it on this board too often, in reference to players, management and media personalities.

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09-26-2013, 10:10 AM
  #14
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I don't think I'm being all that negative, but I do have some concerns.

- The division switch. Going from the S.E. ( Ice a team and you are in a playoff hunt ) to where we are now is a huge competitive change for this team. And unless this team is quickly to adapt their game and bring it up to the level of compete it needs to be... it will be a long season of us being on the outside looking in. I think the players are aware of the difference, but they need to play some games to see the difference for themselves, and quickly adapt.

- The whole 2nd line centre debate. I have said this before. Given all things being normal.....Yes #55 should start the season on the 3rd line, and I also agree that he needs to play himself onto the second line, BUT my concern is this..... regardless of how well Scheifele may or may not play but more importantly to me, how poorly Jokinen potentially is going to play and bring those around him down as well.... this coaching staff is going to insist on Jokinen playing with Kane for 82 games to prove a point that they are right and everyone else is wrong about Jokinen regardless of the potential evidence showing otherwise.

Hey, maybe Jokinen will surprise us all... but do you want to take 82 games to find out your wrong. I would like and expect the coaches to keep things status quo re: Kane and Jokinen for maybe 10 games, but if things aren't working out, try some changes.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 09-26-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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09-26-2013, 10:12 AM
  #15
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I think your spot on Gump. I feel this is the first "real" year of Jet hockey. We have many quality players in St. John or Jr so the moulding continues. We certainly have areas of concern PP & defensive zone play are top of my list but time will tell.

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09-26-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
1)I might be a little less optimistic than you, in that I give the team a 50/50 shot at the playoffs this year. That is optimism in itself, relative to pundits outside of Winnipeg. But I am very optimistic about the future and embrace the plan for sustained growth, however long it takes. That makes it a lot easier to tolerate imperfection.
No, we are in concert here, I'd give them roughly 50/50 odds to make the playoffs as well.

The overall point was more toward that the future of the franchise itself is clearly trending upward from a depth perspective, and right across the board at that - both player personnel and management. I'm a big picture guy. Their organizational goal is to be a yearly threat and they are taking the needed steps to do so. They bought a team that had near zero organizational depth and are in the process of building some. That takes time.

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09-26-2013, 10:34 AM
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It's very refreshing to see a sensible, level-headed thread started on this board.
I agree 100% with the OP. It's unbelievable how many negative, Chicken Little posters there are. They truly personify the worst aspects of sports fandom.


Last edited by Bartho: 09-26-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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09-26-2013, 11:01 AM
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Hainsey leaving was a huge loss?

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09-26-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
- The division switch. Going from the S.E. ( Ice a team and you are in a playoff hunt ) to where we are now is a huge competitive change for this team. And unless this team is quickly to adapt their game and bring it up to the level of compete it needs to be... it will be a long season of us being on the outside looking in. I think the players are aware of the difference, but they need to play some games to see the difference for themselves, and quickly adapt.
I don't get the concern about this new "tougher" division.

UNder the old system our division didn't matter much. If you won you got 3rd place, but otherwise you were competing against the entire conference, which holds some fairly dominant teams. And besides the SE wasn't that weak - obviously it had Washington and Ovi, but also had Carolina and Tampa which are usually scrapping for a playoff spot.

Now in the new Central, we are competing against the entire division for playoff spots. And I think you can pencil in Chicago and St. Louis for two of those four spots.

But then whose left? Nashville missed last year, and lost some big names. And then beyond that you have Colorado, Dallas and Minni, all of which have been just plain bad for the last few years.

I see no reason why we shouldn't expect to make the playoffs in this division.

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09-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #20
Gump Hasek
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Hainsey leaving was a huge loss?
Some actually essentially claimed that, yes.

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09-26-2013, 11:15 AM
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It's called a message board, where people post their own opinions. Believe it or not, not everyone is going to agree with you.

brb gonna make a new thread with opinions I disagree with.

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09-26-2013, 11:17 AM
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Gump Hasek
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It's called a message board, where people post their own opinions. Believe it or not, not everyone is going to agree with you.

brb gonna make a new thread with opinions I disagree with.
Not asking that anyone agree with me, but rather, stated that the tone around the board seems a bit negative relative to the team and their future prospects, in my own opinion. Hope that helps.


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09-26-2013, 11:17 AM
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Some actually essentially claimed that, yes.
But he blocked lots of shots! but with added context and actually watching the games you know that most of them came from him back onto Pavelecs lap and getting in the way of the puck more then actual "blocking"

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09-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #24
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It's called a message board, where people post their own opinions. Believe it or not, not everyone is going to agree with you.

brb gonna make a new thread with opinions I disagree with.
I strongly disagree with this post

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09-26-2013, 11:20 AM
  #25
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It's called a message board, where people post their own opinions. Believe it or not, not everyone is going to agree with you.

brb gonna make a new thread with opinions I disagree with.
IMO, the only issue is with people who's only sole purpose is to be negative.

Having differing opinions and having informed discussions is great, and what makes the site interesting to come to and be a part of.

The posters who only come here to complain, and post negativity in thread after thread are a different matter. It's pretty easy to tell who those ones are over time.

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