I've watched it several times and i just don't see Calvert drastically redirecting Bouchard's stick into his face. He was going to hit him in the face regardless. I know Bouchard is not a dirty player by any means and he just got caught in the moment and frustrated with Calvert. Two games would have worked for me last season, but with the new Shanahan suspensions it is very inconsistent thought it would at least be 5. I mean he obviously had intent to injure he was using his stick as a weapon, whether he meant to hit him in the face or not.
In the NHL you are responsible for your stick. period. It was a slash and it may have been exacerbated by the stick lift but the onus is on the player to control his stick and more specifically not to slash like that unless you are willing to pay for it. Fair suspension, still kinda iffy on Shanny, but he is showing some level of consistency (although I thought a suspension to TB's Malone should have been ordered IMO)
1) The Jackets are a pretty dirty team. The whole game, Bouchard specifically, was getting pounded with elbows to the face and slashes. I was at the game and sat on the glass. This happened a foot and a half in front of me so don't tell me I am wrong. The whole fan section was booing as your "goons" were totally cheap shotting Bouchard the entire game.
2) Calvert clearly started the little scrum that often happens when players jockey for position during the face off. He hit Bouchard with his stick in the shins and then Bouchard tries to do the same back when Calvert decided to lift Bouchard's stick. Techinically, Bouchard shouldn't have been swinging his stick in the first place, but those types of things happen on every single play and if Calvert hadn't lifted the stick mid-swing to the shins nothing would have happened.
Obviously it probably should be a susupension just based on the "swinging-motion" and the outcome of the injury, but really if you just look at what happened it really shouldnt. Especially since Bouchard is probably the least likely guy to do anything like that in the league.
3) You can't honestly say that you've never seen someone take two handed slash to another player. It happens every single shift and during every single little face off scrum, scrum in front of the net, corner, or whatever. It's part of the game of hockey. If you say otherwise your either oblivious or have never played hockey.
Obviously the outcome looked bad. But, in no way can you honestly say Bouchard had any intent to injure, took a baseball swing, or actually did anything wrong.
I'm sorry that your guys coach was tweaking and P***ing his pants when it was basically Calverts fault. And then you guys scream and cry when your guy hits Cluttberbuck cheaply, from behind, in the head, and after the game is over. You blame it on Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck is not a dirty player. He hits a lot of players and finishes his checks, but his hits are clean. You make him out to be this huge goon who doesn't have a place in the league...while you have a guy who has multiple offenses who obviously cheap shots him and you he is innocent. While Bouchard, who has never had an offense and rarely ever takes a penalty, is made out to be this killer when if you actually watch the play the severity of the injury was your own players fault.
I know. LOL Oddest little post. I don't know if that was the result of too much alcohol, selective memory or written by either a 12 year old or someone's mother. Just ... odd.
1) The Jackets are a pretty dirty team. The whole game, Bouchard specifically, was getting pounded with elbows to the face and slashes. I was at the game and sat on the glass. This happened a foot and a half in front of me so don't tell me I am wrong. The whole fan section was booing as your "goons" were totally cheap shotting Bouchard the entire game.
2) Calvert clearly started the little scrum that often happens when players jockey for position during the face off. He hit Bouchard with his stick in the shins and then Bouchard tries to do the same back when Calvert decided to lift Bouchard's stick. Techinically, Bouchard shouldn't have been swinging his stick in the first place, but those types of things happen on every single play and if Calvert hadn't lifted the stick mid-swing to the shins nothing would have happened.
Obviously it probably should be a susupension just based on the "swinging-motion" and the outcome of the injury, but really if you just look at what happened it really shouldnt. Especially since Bouchard is probably the least likely guy to do anything like that in the league.
3) You can't honestly say that you've never seen someone take two handed slash to another player. It happens every single shift and during every single little face off scrum, scrum in front of the net, corner, or whatever. It's part of the game of hockey. If you say otherwise your either oblivious or have never played hockey.
Obviously the outcome looked bad. But, in no way can you honestly say Bouchard had any intent to injure, took a baseball swing, or actually did anything wrong.
I'm sorry that your guys coach was tweaking and P***ing his pants when it was basically Calverts fault. And then you guys scream and cry when your guy hits Cluttberbuck cheaply, from behind, in the head, and after the game is over. You blame it on Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck is not a dirty player. He hits a lot of players and finishes his checks, but his hits are clean. You make him out to be this huge goon who doesn't have a place in the league...while you have a guy who has multiple offenses who obviously cheap shots him and you he is innocent. While Bouchard, who has never had an offense and rarely ever takes a penalty, is made out to be this killer when if you actually watch the play the severity of the injury was your own players fault.
Peace.
1. Wiz didn't hit Clutterbuck from behind. That's extremely obvious.
2. Bouchard's stick was never at Calvert's shins when he decided to swing. At worst it was in his mid-section, but that's neither here nor there.
Bouchard is a player I respect. He's not a guy who ever has intent to injure. But circumstances are circumstances. Bouchard is responsible for having his stick in that region, just as if it were any normal high-sticking penalty; players are responsible for where their sticks are (especially if they're taking a swing). Calvert may have lifted his stick, but PMB should be held accountable for his actions. 2 games is reasonable.
2) Calvert clearly started the little scrum that often happens when players jockey for position during the face off. He hit Bouchard with his stick in the shins and then Bouchard tries to do the same back when Calvert decided to lift Bouchard's stick. Techinically, Bouchard shouldn't have been swinging his stick in the first place, but those types of things happen on every single play and if Calvert hadn't lifted the stick mid-swing to the shins nothing would have happened.
Can't disagree with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
3) You can't honestly say that you've never seen someone take two handed slash to another player. It happens every single shift and during every single little face off scrum, scrum in front of the net, corner, or whatever. It's part of the game of hockey. If you say otherwise your either oblivious or have never played hockey.
Also agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
And then you guys scream and cry when your guy hits Cluttberbuck cheaply, from behind, in the head, and after the game is over. You blame it on Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck is not a dirty player. He hits a lot of players and finishes his checks, but his hits are clean. You make him out to be this huge goon who doesn't have a place in the league...
I know it won't ever happen but I would love to see that in one of the appeals the verdict is more games. I think that would be laugh out loud funny. It should not happen in this case, two games is about right, but wouldn't it be great that in the appeal the Commish would say:' You know, you are right, Shanny was wrong, you are suspended for one more game."
There aren't many reference points in hockey history for two-handed slashes to the face. The ugliest one probably being Alexander Perezhogin, then of the Hamilton Bulldogs:
Some might also say the McSorley/Brashear incident, which was horrifying in it's own right.
This play was nowhere near the level of either of those incidents, both of which resulted in major suspensions, and in both cases, criminal charges. I think we can all agree that incidents like this are among the ugliest in our sport, and there's absolutely no place for people who swing their stick violently at their opponent. While this play was nowhere near as gruesome as the Perezhogin incident, I think there are some parallels. I don't believe Bouchard (nor Perezhogin) intentionally targeted the face/head of their opponent. In Perezhogin's case, he was responding to a slash from Garrett Stafford, and unfortunately Stafford was in a prone position that left him vulnerable to such a wicked injury. In Bouchard's case, I definitely think that his intention was to slash Matt Calvert. I've watched the video numerous times, and that's one thing that I think everyone can agree on. I do not think that his intention was to hit Matt Calvert in the head. It looked to me like he was aiming for mid-section, perhaps around the hands or arms, however Calvert's reaction to the play caused the stick to rise higher than originally intended.
There's two things that you (and Brendan Shanahan) have to look at here. One: There's obviously a responsibility from P-M Bouchard to control his own stick in this situation. He was clearly intent on delivering a slash to Matt Calvert, and he did not restrain himself from doing so. Two: While I won't call Matt Calvert partially at fault for the play (let's face it, nobody hits themselves in the face with a stick on purpose), he didn't do a good enough job of protecting himself, and paid a price for it.
Bouchard has no prior record of violence in the league, and has himself had a history of concussions. I don't believe his intent is to hit anyone in the head. I will, however, point out Pierre-Marc Bouchard's only NHL fighting major:
Clearly, he gets hit in the head on this play. However, his means of defending himself? A two-handed slash to his opponent, resulting in a slashing major. There were no suspensions for this incident, to any of the players.
My outcome? Bouchard needs to learn that swinging his stick at his opponents is completely unacceptable. He has no suspension history, and only one fighting major to speak for in his entire career. Two games is a fair suspension for all parties here - the Jackets get justice for their injured player, and the Wild lose one of their best offensive weapons for two games, which should hopefully result in them making sure he doesn't slash his opponents anymore.
I have no problem with Shanahan's decision here. Sorry, Wild fans ... you have to play by the new rules also.
1) The Jackets are a pretty dirty team. The whole game, Bouchard specifically, was getting pounded with elbows to the face and slashes. I was at the game and sat on the glass. This happened a foot and a half in front of me so don't tell me I am wrong. The whole fan section was booing as your "goons" were totally cheap shotting Bouchard the entire game.
Or were they delivering a message with clean hard hits, and Bouchard like other Wild players didn't want to drop his gloves so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
2) Calvert clearly started the little scrum that often happens when players jockey for position during the face off. He hit Bouchard with his stick in the shins and then Bouchard tries to do the same back when Calvert decided to lift Bouchard's stick. Techinically, Bouchard shouldn't have been swinging his stick in the first place, but those types of things happen on every single play and if Calvert hadn't lifted the stick mid-swing to the shins nothing would have happened.
Obviously it probably should be a susupension just based on the "swinging-motion" and the outcome of the injury, but really if you just look at what happened it really shouldnt. Especially since Bouchard is probably the least likely guy to do anything like that in the league.
Calvert said Bouchard’s blow was in reaction to contact during the faceoff.
“I just played him rough, just a little push on him,” Calvert said. “Obviously, he didn’t like that too much, and he brought up his stick.”
“I’ve never been slashed in the mouth like that,” Calvert said. “He did apologize after, and I have a little respect for him for that. But if you have a problem with a guy, you should drop the mitts and sort it out.”
Which seems typical for Wild players, first Clusterbuck turtles, then this guy does this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
3) You can't honestly say that you've never seen someone take two handed slash to another player. It happens every single shift and during every single little face off scrum, scrum in front of the net, corner, or whatever. It's part of the game of hockey. If you say otherwise your either oblivious or have never played hockey.
I've seen it often, but then they usually man up. Why don't Wild players do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
Obviously the outcome looked bad. But, in no way can you honestly say Bouchard had any intent to injure, took a baseball swing, or actually did anything wrong.
Ummm, yes he did and was suspended for it. I'm only disappointed it wasn't a longer suspension. 5 games seems right to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins1095
I'm sorry that your guys coach was tweaking and P***ing his pants when it was basically Calverts fault. And then you guys scream and cry when your guy hits Cluttberbuck cheaply, from behind, in the head, and after the game is over. You blame it on Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck is not a dirty player. He hits a lot of players and finishes his checks, but his hits are clean. You make him out to be this huge goon who doesn't have a place in the league...while you have a guy who has multiple offenses who obviously cheap shots him and you he is innocent. While Bouchard, who has never had an offense and rarely ever takes a penalty, is made out to be this killer when if you actually watch the play the severity of the injury was your own players fault.
Peace.
First off, Clusterbuck isn't a dirty player like Sean Avery isn't a dirty player.
Secondly, I'm truly shocked that Clusterbuck skates backwards chest, knees and face first. Was he somehow put together wrong by some evil scientist?
Better go watch the video again.
Third, your post illustrates why it's a very bad idea to go "off the reservation" onto another team's board to defend your guy. It just makes the poster look bad.
Edit: and I'm watching the Wild/Islanders game and seeing cheap shot after cheap shot. It's 2-0 Isles.
Last edited by TaketheCannoli: 10-10-2011 at 01:32 PM.
This is what I posted on the suspension tracker in the NHL topic on HF Boards:
Seems like we just saw this type of post war between these two teams what about two weeks ago. Jackets fans think Clutterbuck is to blame for Wiz's suspension and now Wild fans think that Calvert is to blame for Bouchard's suspension. I guess the point that everyone is missing is that both players were wrong and somebody is holding them responsible.
I've watched the Wiz video and agree that he made a boneheaded play worthy of suspension, I'll let everyone else argue on length. One thing I will say about the Bouchard incident is that he drops his stick immediately after he made contact with Calvert's face, which to me indicates he knows he did something wrong. Again, I'm not getting into semantics about intent, etc. but just thought I would point that out.
I guess my greater point, really in anything, not just hockey, is taking personal responsibility for your actions. Say you screwed up, take your punishment and move on and try to get better.
I'll add one more thing. I really think that the league is setting things up for something bad to happen between these two teams. If it wasn't apparent before, it is now that these teams don't like each other and that usually sets up for something bad to happen in future matchups. I hope that I'm wrong.
This is Brendan Shanahan, Director of Player Saftey.
An incident occurred sometime ago in the game between the Atlanta Thrashers and Florida Panthers. After Illya Kovalchuk scores a goal off his own rebound due to horrible defensive coverage from Keith Ballard, Ballard takes his frustration out on goaltender Tomas Vokun by turning his stick into a lightSabre and cutting Vokun's head off.
Ballard's inability to check Kovalchuk after Vokun's initial save does not give him justification to cut his goalies head off, even if Vokun did fail to cover the puck after his initial save. The onus is on Ballard to either cut Kovalchuk's head off instead or use force lightning to incapacitate Kovalchuk before he can score on the rebound.
I've decided to suspend Keith Ballard for 2 games and going forward he will be considered a repeat offender.
