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Old
01-10-2012, 07:45 PM
  #151
Calculon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Congo View Post
So, we need to have a pretty frank conversation about the prospects this team has. The Abbotsford Heat are winning, which is wonderful. But it doesn't seem like they're winning because of the Flames' prospects though. A lot of the Flames prospects that filled this forum with excitement not that long ago do not have very good stat lines.

Ryan Howse. 0 Points.
Mitch Wahl. 6 points playing for someone else's farm team.
Chris Breen. -3
John Negrin. 1 Point, -4
Joni Ortio. 0 wins.
Bryan Cameron. 11 points in the ECHL.

Outscoring everyone is Gaelan Patterson with 3 points.

Is this injuries? System? Coaching decisions? Or is the reality that a lot of the Flames prospects just aren't that good?
Wahl, Negrin and Howse's situations have already been discussed a number of times.

Wahl had a concussion last season and was struggling not only to find his game but to get to play with the Heat. He's slowly regaining his old form, but he needs more time before people start jumping to conclusions.

Howse came into camp out of shape. He was given a one month sabbatical to shape up and only recently came back. He was actually playing pretty well (even though it was on the 4th line) until he injured his shoulder. He too, needs more time for a proper evaluation.

Ortio's in his first season with the Heat and his first experience with NA hockey. Again, more time is required before making rash judgements.

Negrin's potential has been decimated by injuries. It's unknown and probably unlikely he'll become what he was expected to be (top four defensivemen), but if he manages to stay healthy, who knows.

Cameron was always a long shot to make the NHL. Breen, if I'm not mistaken is not an offensive defensemen.

In summary, injuries make a bad prospect pool look even worse.

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Old
01-10-2012, 08:26 PM
  #152
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The only ones on that list that had anyone "excited" were Wahl and Howse. They are still "maybes" for NHL, and that's being generous. The real disappointments have been Negrin (who has suffered from major injury trouble) and Nemisz who was invisible in both games with the Flames this season.

The ones that are exciting now are sort of tearing it up in the WHL - and we'll wait and see how their pro game develops and whether they can stay healthy (ie: Baertschi)

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01-16-2012, 04:09 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Kotalik Fanboy View Post
Sven is putting up better numbers in junior than Huberdeau, Strome, and Scheifele so far.
Can't wait to see him in training camp next year and how he handles NHL opposition. Hoping for good futures here!

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01-22-2012, 04:25 PM
  #154
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any news or comments on Baertschi with the 5 - 2 loss to Spokane ? with a personal -3 ?

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01-27-2012, 09:30 PM
  #155
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I see that Ortio was assigned back to Finland. Is that it for him as Flame (Like other team's prospects that go back to Europe and never return) or is he expected to come back over next season?

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:32 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
I see that Ortio was assigned back to Finland. Is that it for him as Flame (Like other team's prospects that go back to Europe and never return) or is he expected to come back over next season?
I think that is most likely it for him but to be fair I was never that big on him so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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Old
01-27-2012, 10:14 PM
  #157
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Yeah with Irving and Ramo now ahead of him on the depth chart, he's probably done.

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Old
01-28-2012, 12:48 AM
  #158
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I'm a bit surprised there is no talk about Markus Granlund. He has six points in five games after the WJC. And actually five points in the first 14 games and a point per game pace since then (17 games). There are only three players over point per game in the whole league, the best being Mikael Granlund at 1.22 points per game.

Markus Granlund might become just as good as his brother. An elite forward. Also, Markus is three times the player Mikko Koivu was at that age. You really, really seem to be far too low on him.

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01-28-2012, 07:44 PM
  #159
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Agreed, Markus has been good. Since he plays in the SM-liiga, he doesn't get as much attention. He's a boy playing amongst men, and he has done well so far. If he improves his skating and consistency, he can certainly play in a top 6 role given his talent.

Just as a comparison to a first rounder from his draft year playing in the same league:

Markus Granlund's stats: 31GP, 9G, 13A, +15, 071PPG
Joel Armia's stats: 37GP, 12G, 14A, +6, 0.70PPG

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Old
01-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
. Also, Markus is three times the player Mikko Koivu was at that age. .

Sure

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01-29-2012, 01:19 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
Sure
It's not that off of a statement to make. Koivu was a late bloomer if memory serves.

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Old
01-29-2012, 02:28 PM
  #162
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AHL allstar competition is on SNET right now, Connely is fast, just flew through the speed and puck control race and made it look like a cake walk


Edit: Connelly wins fastest skater


Last edited by tmurfin: 01-29-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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Old
01-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
Sure
3 goals 4 assists in 48 games in FEL as an 18 year-old for Mikko Koivu. Of course he had a better frame and was physically more complete, but still there is no denying that Granlunds 0.7 points per game is better than Koivus 0.146PPG. Their U20 resume is kind of the same, Granlund having a bit better stats but the game in NHL is played against men.

Maybe that comment of mine was off, but also the shakehead is a bit much also


Last edited by Hagged: 01-29-2012 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Koivu's stats corrected
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Old
01-29-2012, 04:05 PM
  #164
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I think almost all posters will agree that Granlund has the talent to earn that respect, but he hasn't done enough yet to have it. He has made LARGE strides in his development over the last year and if he continues to do so he has the potential to be one of our top 3 prospects as early as next season IMO. He needs to continue to work on his skating and strength. He has top 6 potential, and I think he is going to be a very good player.

I also think having his brother is a huge help for him. They can train and workout together as well as push each other. This sibling rivalry will only cause both players to get better and I think its already been great for Markus.

Now that Brodie is on the verge of graduating from prospect status, Sven, Markus and Gaudreau are the prospects I am most excited about. At LEAST one of them you would have to think will hit their potential and be an impact player for the Flames down the road.

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Old
01-29-2012, 05:56 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
It's not that off of a statement to make. Koivu was a late bloomer if memory serves.
Koivu was a 6th overall pick so he couldn't have been that late of a bloomer. He showed plenty of potential at that age.

My headshake was mainly for the "3X"

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Old
01-30-2012, 04:40 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
I'm a bit surprised there is no talk about Markus Granlund. He has six points in five games after the WJC. And actually five points in the first 14 games and a point per game pace since then (17 games). There are only three players over point per game in the whole league, the best being Mikael Granlund at 1.22 points per game.

Markus Granlund might become just as good as his brother. An elite forward. Also, Markus is three times the player Mikko Koivu was at that age. You really, really seem to be far too low on him.


Not youuuu againnn...... Watch the games instead of stats and you'll see he's not NEARLY as good as Koivu was. Markus is leetching off of his line atm, and has been doing that all season long. I understand you aren't able to watch him on a regular basis as you live in Switzerland, but please don't come around here and make such stupid statements. You are overhyping him like crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
Koivu was a 6th overall pick so he couldn't have been that late of a bloomer. He showed plenty of potential at that age.

My headshake was mainly for the "3X"
Exactly. I'd say it's the other way around, actually. Mikko was at least 3x player Markus is. Stats aren't everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
Agreed, Markus has been good. Since he plays in the SM-liiga, he doesn't get as much attention. He's a boy playing amongst men, and he has done well so far. If he improves his skating and consistency, he can certainly play in a top 6 role given his talent.

Just as a comparison to a first rounder from his draft year playing in the same league:

Markus Granlund's stats: 31GP, 9G, 13A, +15, 071PPG
Joel Armia's stats: 37GP, 12G, 14A, +6, 0.70PPG
Armia has been absolutely tearing the league apart since the WJC and has a great foundation to his game as a 6'3 guy with great wheels and a blazing shot.



Markus has some tools (above average playmaking, stick skills etc.) that might get him an NHL career at some point, but he has a looooong long way to go. He still has massive holes in his game such as work ethic, defensive awareness, shot, skating (this has developed a bit), consistency, finishing... I'd say chances of seeing him in the NHL some day are at 10% if things go the way they are heading. But yeah, he really needs to pick up his development.

Take that from a huge fan of his SM-Liiga team.


Don't want you guys to have lofty expectations for the kid

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01-30-2012, 10:29 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatexiKledjut View Post


Not youuuu againnn...... Watch the games instead of stats and you'll see he's not NEARLY as good as Koivu was. Markus is leetching off of his line atm, and has been doing that all season long. I understand you aren't able to watch him on a regular basis as you live in Switzerland, but please don't come around here and make such stupid statements. You are overhyping him like crazy.



Exactly. I'd say it's the other way around, actually. Mikko was at least 3x player Markus is. Stats aren't everything.



Armia has been absolutely tearing the league apart since the WJC and has a great foundation to his game as a 6'3 guy with great wheels and a blazing shot.



Markus has some tools (above average playmaking, stick skills etc.) that might get him an NHL career at some point, but he has a looooong long way to go. He still has massive holes in his game such as work ethic, defensive awareness, shot, skating (this has developed a bit), consistency, finishing... I'd say chances of seeing him in the NHL some day are at 10% if things go the way they are heading. But yeah, he really needs to pick up his development.

Take that from a huge fan of his SM-Liiga team.


Don't want you guys to have lofty expectations for the kid
Much appreciated. It's always nice to get input from people who can watch the prospects first-hand on a somewhat regular basis.

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Old
01-30-2012, 12:51 PM
  #168
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Agreed, the input is nice, even if it isn't what we'd like to hear. Playing with his brother probably does inflate his stats. Mikael is pretty much a lock to play on the Wild next season, so I'm very curious to see if Markus can keep improving/developing/producing without his brother at his side.

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01-30-2012, 02:43 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatexiKledjut View Post
Armia has been absolutely tearing the league apart since the WJC and has a great foundation to his game as a 6'3 guy with great wheels and a blazing shot.
Glad to hear Armia bounced back. I was beyond disappointed in his showing at the WJC, especially after I was hoping the Flames would draft him.

In regards to Granlund, thanks for the update. I value these sorts of posts from the European hockey fans, since we never get to see them play. Agree that its not exactly what we were hoping to hear, but time will tell I suppose.

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Old
01-30-2012, 03:28 PM
  #170
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I don't know about you guys, but I was impressed with Markus' play in what I saw from him at the WJC. Sure, it could be argued that his success can be attributed to playing with an NHL level talent in his brother, but if he makes the NHL isn't that the type of talent he'll be playing with?

Obviously I haven't watched him as much as Latexi, but for an 18 year old I've been impressed by what I've seen so far. I think he could probably have a Ville Nieminen-type NHL career as far as numbers go easily, to use a player we're familiar with. He's already putting up better numbers than Ville did in that league as a 19 year old.

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Old
01-30-2012, 06:44 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
Agreed, the input is nice, even if it isn't what we'd like to hear. Playing with his brother probably does inflate his stats. Mikael is pretty much a lock to play on the Wild next season, so I'm very curious to see if Markus can keep improving/developing/producing without his brother at his side.
That may be true, but you have to have a very good skillset to compliment such a player.

As I have said in the past, His stats may be inflated due to playing with his brother but he will always be underrated to a degree by the finish fan base as he is always being directly compared to Mikael (which is not fair).

Next year will be very telling in regards to where he stands as a prospect.

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Old
01-30-2012, 07:05 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
That may be true, but you have to have a very good skillset to compliment such a player.
Remember when Canucks fans used to say that about Anson Carter when he was mooching points off the Sedins?

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01-30-2012, 08:04 PM
  #173
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Granlund is going to sort himself out though. He won't play in the NHL next season, and we have no clue if he'll leave Europe to ride the bus in Abbotsford. Whether Abbotsford or Finland, either way he's going to be playing without his brother, and then we get to see if he's a product of Mikael or if he's a complement to Mikael. So...chill out. He's young, and we can get a better read next year.

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01-30-2012, 08:50 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Congo View Post
Granlund is going to sort himself out though. He won't play in the NHL next season, and we have no clue if he'll leave Europe to ride the bus in Abbotsford. Whether Abbotsford or Finland, either way he's going to be playing without his brother, and then we get to see if he's a product of Mikael or if he's a complement to Mikael. So...chill out. He's young, and we can get a better read next year.
Couldnt have said it better myself, we just drafted the kid, he was always seen as a longer term project, so lets wait and see what happens

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Old
01-30-2012, 09:41 PM
  #175
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Remember when Canucks fans used to say that about Anson Carter when he was mooching points off the Sedins?
I'm confused. Are you in agreement that Granlund has a skill set, or mooching his brother?

Because Anson Carter was a 7 time 40+ point player, a 5-time 20 goal scorer, and had his best season in Edmonton.

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