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Dustin Byfuglien thread [mod edit]

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Old
10-10-2011, 12:06 PM
  #26
cneely
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Originally Posted by m66m View Post
zdeno chara was considered for the norris as well, but i and a lot of others don't see him as anything but very average defensively.
Wait... What?
Chara is one of the league's premier shut down d-men.

And sting is bang on. As a forward, he averaged 30 points playing with some great playmakers. I wouldn't mind him at forward, but he's a long way from a "dominant top-line forward".

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10-10-2011, 12:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I'd put him on the second line...

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Byfuglien
Not if he's going to get 12 minutes a night. Fyi, that wasn't our 2nd line last night. Hell, it wasn't even really our 3rd line. Our 4th line was much more effective(which should now be expected by Winnipeg fans that have now seen them).

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10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I'd put him on the second line...

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Byfuglien
Not bad at all. As someone who did NOT follow the Thrashers last year...

Why was he moved to the D in the first place?

Was it because the D was poor and needed help or because he was lacking as a forward?

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10-10-2011, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
A But, Buff is not that skilled. He does not have good hands. He does not have a quick release. He's not agile or quick on the ice.
So, you either never have seen Byfuglien play or you have some kind of hate on for him.

Canucks fan?

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Old
10-10-2011, 12:41 PM
  #30
cneely
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
So, you either never have seen Byfuglien play or you have some kind of hate on for him.

Canucks fan?
But he doesn't have hands. He's big, skates very well for a big man, and has a hard, heavy shot. He's not a stick handler, or passer.

Not to take anything away from him. He's a fine player, but his hands are not great.

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10-10-2011, 12:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
But he doesn't have hands. He's big, skates very well for a big man, and has a hard, heavy shot. He's not a stick handler, or passer.

Not to take anything away from him. He's a fine player, but his hands are not great.
I've seen him score goal scorers goals in front of the net. Also, I was commenting on the OP's overall talent assessment of Buff, not just the hands thing.

When I think of someone without hands I think of a guy like Slater or Thorburn.

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10-10-2011, 12:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I've seen him score goal scorers goals in front of the net. Also, I was commenting on the OP's overall talent assessment of Buff, not just the hands thing.

When I think of someone without hands I think of a guy like Slater or Thorburn.
That's a fair comment, he's no 4th line scrub, but again, not a dominant top-line forward.

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10-10-2011, 12:51 PM
  #33
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Interesting thread and debate.

I hope Buf doesn't get yo-yo'd back between forward and defense, so that he never reaches his potential. That would be the worst of both worlds.

I would keep him as a D, because his upside is bigger there. We have to keep in mind that defense can be taught. It just takes time - several years -- for most players to become consistent performers on the blueline.

And if he doesn't want to be taught, and if he doesn't want to play forward, well, we trade him. But we're not there yet.

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Old
10-10-2011, 12:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
That's a fair comment, he's no 4th line scrub, but again, not a dominant top-line forward.
I agree. I think people are a little off the rails with the top line comment.

I think Byfuglien as a forward can be a good grinding power forward who could net 20-25 goals for you and be a royal pain down low and in front of the net.

I, on the other hand want to see him stay at D. I am fully confident that after a few months with Huddy, he will start to learn when to jump, when not to, and what to do when he gets caught up the ice. It seems to me like coaching last year were unwilling to try and reign Byfuglien in.

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10-10-2011, 12:55 PM
  #35
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No no no to Buff being on forward. He was only effective at this position against the Canucks because he ticked off Luongo to no end and the D couldn't move him.

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10-10-2011, 12:59 PM
  #36
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No he's not, he'll just be less of a liability there.

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10-10-2011, 01:03 PM
  #37
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I think a line of Kane - Scheiflie - Buff could be excellent. Then Buff can man the point on the PP to use his cannon of a shot.

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10-10-2011, 01:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I think Byfuglien as a forward can be a good grinding power forward who could net 20-25 goals for you and be a royal pain down low and in front of the net.

I, on the other hand want to see him stay at D. I am fully confident that after a few months with Huddy, he will start to learn when to jump, when not to, and what to do when he gets caught up the ice.
This comment makes a lot of sense to me.

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Old
10-10-2011, 01:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ducky View Post
I think a line of Kane - Scheiflie - Buff could be excellent. Then Buff can man the point on the PP to use his cannon of a shot.
I'd actually like to see him park that big body in front of the net on the pp.

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10-10-2011, 01:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
I agree. I think people are a little off the rails with the top line comment.

I think Byfuglien as a forward can be a good grinding power forward who could net 20-25 goals for you and be a royal pain down low and in front of the net.

I, on the other hand want to see him stay at D. I am fully confident that after a few months with Huddy, he will start to learn when to jump, when not to, and what to do when he gets caught up the ice. It seems to me like coaching last year were unwilling to try and reign Byfuglien in.
Why exactly do you think this?

Last year this team had one of the best individual coaches in the game today in Craig Ramsay. While I don't think he was ready for head coaching duties, he still helped many individual guys on the roster improve their game.

Little became an even better 2-way forward than he already was and proved he can be a very strong centerman. Burmistrov may have only scored 20 goals but he also showed he can play a very strong 2-way game for a Russian his age. He completely turned Hainsey's game around, in 1 season he was asked to change his life long role of an offensive defenseman to a shut down guy and ended up being the 2nd best on the team and the only d-man to finish with a positive +/-.

I don't believe coaching is the reason Byfuglien is bad on defense. He's too slow, pinches too much and everyone knows his game. I support a move of him to forward as I think it's time for some of our youngsters (Postma, Festerling, Meech) to get into the lineup, and also because I don't see Dustin becoming any better in his position as a d-man. While we know he's probably always going to be on defense solely on the contract and because he wants to, he needs to be with Toby or Hainsey so they can clean up his nightly mistakes.

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10-10-2011, 01:23 PM
  #41
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Meech and Festerling are far from youngsters, and I don't want Randy Jones to play a full time spot on this team. Marginal talent and a personal dislike for the Bergeron incident I suppose.

FWIW, he wasn't saying Ramsay was unable to reign in Buff, but that the coaching staff was unwilling to do so. Willing to take risk for the possible offensive reward I suppose.

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10-10-2011, 01:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Why exactly do you think this?

Last year this team had one of the best individual coaches in the game today in Craig Ramsay. While I don't think he was ready for head coaching duties, he still helped many individual guys on the roster improve their game.

Little became an even better 2-way forward than he already was and proved he can be a very strong centerman. Burmistrov may have only scored 20 goals but he also showed he can play a very strong 2-way game for a Russian his age. He completely turned Hainsey's game around, in 1 season he was asked to change his life long role of an offensive defenseman to a shut down guy and ended up being the 2nd best on the team and the only d-man to finish with a positive +/-.

I don't believe coaching is the reason Byfuglien is bad on defense. He's too slow, pinches too much and everyone knows his game. I support a move of him to forward as I think it's time for some of our youngsters (Postma, Festerling, Meech) to get into the lineup, and also because I don't see Dustin becoming any better in his position as a d-man. While we know he's probably always going to be on defense solely on the contract and because he wants to, he needs to be with Toby or Hainsey so they can clean up his nightly mistakes.
Careful with the 'youngsters' tag. Festerling is only a year younger than Buff and Meech is a year older.

Byfuglien has had very little experience as an NHL defencemen. He should be afforded the same amount of time, experience and coaching as other defencemen to develop in that position. The fact that he is now an NHL veteran is a bonus, as he doesn't have to adapt to the strength speed and intelligence of the league.

I don't see why people are not affording Byfuglien the time to learn that other players are allowed.

As for the whole Ramsay thing, the guy didn't seem able to right the ship when the wheels fell off last year, and I have no idea the relationship he had with Buff or what was said to him, so I can't comment on that. What I can say is, we have one of the best teachers for defenceman coaching them this year.

Byfuglien needs and deserves time.

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Old
10-10-2011, 02:03 PM
  #43
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Andrew Ladd - Bryan Little - Blake Wheeler
Evander Kane - Alex Burmistrov - Dustin Byfuglien
Nik Antropov - Mark Scheifele - Kyle Wellwood
Chris Thorburn - Jim Slater - Eric Fehr

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10-10-2011, 02:09 PM
  #44
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If Buff commits to being the best player he can be, he could be the best power forward in the league. But, he wants to play defense as it's an easier role with less skating involved. He isn't willing to commit. His fluctuating weight this off season is another example as well.

I hope Chevy can somehow get him back into Chicago like form, otherwise, it might be beneficial to see what we can get for him, maybe a honest to goodness top 3 scorer. ( just hoping, and putting all thoughts down here lol)

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Old
10-10-2011, 02:17 PM
  #45
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I hope whoever can get a handle on Buff does it fast. Rick Dudley was a big factor in getting Buff committed and willing to play hard last season. I hope someone can do it now that he is gone.

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10-10-2011, 02:23 PM
  #46
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I seriously hope the coaching staff knows what idiots they were pairing Byfuglien with Oduya and never make that mistake again.

While Toby and Hainsey would be the ultimate shut down pairing, it's not worth the expense of another. I think we can stop the Buff to forward speculations because realistically I don't think any of us ever see it happening. He signed that huge contract because of his play in the 1st half of last year as a defenseman and that's most likely where he's going to stay.

I sincerely hope this almighty coaching staff everyone keeps raving about is able to work wonders with him, because even in Noel's defense first system Buff was still pinching as much as he was in Ramsay's and getting nothing done in the process. If they can get his game in our zone fixed then I will be somewhat happy, but at the same time he is being paid a hell of a lot of money and that is based on his ability to score. That is what fears me the most is him re-capturing his scoring touch from the first half of last year.

I'm not going to post his 1st and 2nd half stats because I've done it so much I think it's permanently my ctrl + v. This guy just looks snake bitten when it comes to offense. He made a lot of attempts last night both even strength and on the power play and none of them really looked like much of a threat.

He's going to be here for a little while so let's hope it's a matter of coaching to bring him back to all-star status because we're in for troublesome times if they can't.

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Old
10-10-2011, 10:00 PM
  #47
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Watching Buff, I think the reason he managed to tally so many points was that he was acting like a third winger. Last night, he was quick to start / join the rush and would stay deep in the offensive zone.

Most appallingly, though, was watching him coast back to his own zone when the play turned around. It wasn't a rare thing, either - he'd sprint up with the puck, muck around in the Habs corners or the front of the net, then quite literally coast back to his own end.

That kind of play has to stop ASAP, or he should be moved up.

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Old
10-10-2011, 10:15 PM
  #48
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What does Buff weigh, 270?

He said last year he's not built for the shorter, more-aerobic, forward shifts. He'd rather log more minutes at lower rpms.

Enstrom's size may limit his physical play, but not his coverage - look how long the stick is he plays with - and he does amazing things with it - 'pocket Lidstrom' is still the best name and description of his game.

Oduya was the #1 problem for the team during the second half of last year, and it appears he remains that.

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Old
10-10-2011, 11:09 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Nothing Is New View Post
Agree with moving Buff to offense - primarily because of his defensive shortcomings. We need to be realistic. This team is still essentially the old Thrashers - and they had major defensive problems - with Buff in the mix. Buff had a few good moments in the first half of last year and then tailed off badly after January. The Thrashers might have been able to live with that, except that it took Enstrom out of the productive defensive scheme. His job was to cover for Buff. Winnipeg, at this point, is going down the same faulty path the Thrashers took. Buff is big, can hit and and occasionally launch a rocket. He's generally popular with the fans for that reason. I think it made Ramsey and may be making Noel reluctant to mess with his situation. But, Buff is not that skilled. He does not have good hands. He does not have a quick release. He's not agile or quick on the ice. Nevertheless, with his size and if he has attitude, he can be a major ***** disturber around the opposing goal.

re Scheifele. None of us know at this point. But if he is not lighting it up ala Skinner last year early on, he probably should go down to get stronger. Keep in mind he's more likely to grow fatigued as the longer NHL season wears on..

And Little looked good yesterday.
You are saying buff does not have good hands you should probably not post on here anymore handswise I would say he is third on the team after Burmi and Enstrom,I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you have never played hockey before.I would also say he has the quickest release on our team you are so wrong it's not even funny.Buff is really out of shape and it is only because of these skills and his size that he is able to get away with it somewhat.

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Old
10-11-2011, 12:04 AM
  #50
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i'm not going to say i told you so, but i am going to say i expected this thread to be made relatively early on this season.

with the current roster i would make these the lines if i were the coach.

ladd-little-antropov :ladd is the "powerforward", little the playmaker, and antropov the finisher. i can see little hitting the trailing antropov with ladd screening the goalie quite a bit here. anyone that plays with little is going to score. antropov has a very good shot, and while he may not have the speed of the other two, he would be a great player to match with them, imo

wheeler-burmistrov-byfuglien - same as above, byfuglien screens and collects garbage goals, burmi is a fantastic playmaker, and wheeler has a solid shot

kane-scheif-wellwood (fehr) :this line is kind of an oddball. it would make more sense to me when fehr is back. i kept kane off a line with burmistrov because they both tend to be at their best when holding the puck. essentially this line just goes along with kane. i'd play this line and the burmi line either evenly or interchangeably depending one which one is going better.

glass (wellwood)-slater-thorburn- does what and energy line does. plays solid defensively, forechecks like a mother, and can chip in a goal every other game or so.

other options (just assume wellwood will replace fehr, and glass wellwood, for now)
ladd-little-antro
kane-burmi-byfuglien
wheeler-scheif-fehr
wellwood-slater-thor

ladd-little-wheelz
kane-scheif-buff
fehr-burmi-antro

kane-little-antro
ladd-burmi-wheelz
fehr-scheif-buff

i actually really like that last one. top line gives little too good shots to pass to, and gives kane two guys he can rely on to finish plays he may make and to be in good defensive position if he tries to deke his way through and fails. antropov can be the net player on prolonged cycles. 2nd line is a solid two-way line. third can be a force to be reckoned with when on.

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