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Dustin Byfuglien thread [mod edit]

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Old
10-11-2011, 01:47 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by GetPucksDeep View Post
What does Buff weigh, 270?

He said last year he's not built for the shorter, more-aerobic, forward shifts. He'd rather log more minutes at lower rpms.

Enstrom's size may limit his physical play, but not his coverage - look how long the stick is he plays with - and he does amazing things with it - 'pocket Lidstrom' is still the best name and description of his game.

Oduya was the #1 problem for the team during the second half of last year, and it appears he remains that.
And by second half, you mean all last year right?


Buff's playing Defence. Live with it. Guy put up 50 points on the back end. Again, leave him there, give him a defence partner who is capable of actually playing defence, and forwards who can play a 2 way game (ie only with little/4th line is on the ice to take the spot when buff goes deep).

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10-11-2011, 03:43 AM
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I think I agree with Lynk mostly. I don't think he has the instincts or quickness to play really well in his own zone. And if you are going to play him on D, it's hard to see how pairing him with Oduya makes any sense. Enstrom's brilliant play covered his bacon many many times last year.
But those who say give him time with Huddy and the current staff do have a point for sure. I hope they're right and it works out well.

He does have lots of talent for sure. He skates well and he actually does stickhandle well IMO. And as a forward, it's hard to see him not putting up at least 25 with significant pp time.

This guy is so unique. If you can figure out how to best use him, he could be so effective. But if not, he could be a pretty big liability.

Good Luck

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10-11-2011, 10:14 AM
  #53
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So, you either never have seen Byfuglien play or you have some kind of hate on for him.

Canucks fan?
No. Watched Buff all year - from glory early to mediocrity later. If hate is dispassionately assessing his play - then I guess its hate. IMO, on D, its Enstrom that needs to be accommodated and featured - not Buff. We (the old Thrash) did the opposite and now Peg is making the same mistake. You should not be reassured that you are following in Donny Waddell's footsteps. Better to go 180 from there.

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10-11-2011, 10:44 AM
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No. Watched Buff all year - from glory early to mediocrity later. If hate is dispassionately assessing his play - then I guess its hate. IMO, on D, its Enstrom that needs to be accommodated and featured - not Buff. We (the old Thrash) did the opposite and now Peg is making the same mistake. You should not be reassured that you are following in Donny Waddell's footsteps. Better to go 180 from there.
Yes, because one game defines the future of a franchise. [/sarcasm]

All due respect intended, it is more than a little tiresome having Thrasher fans continually attempting to project their own past onto new franchise management, coaching, and ownership - all located in a new city.

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10-11-2011, 10:55 AM
  #55
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All due respect intended, it is more than a little tiresome having Thrasher fans continually attempting to project their own past onto new franchise management, coaching, and ownership - all located in a new city.
You're including all the positive comments from Thrash fans about Enstrom, Kane, Burmi, Thorburn, Wheeler, and Ladd too I assume.

I totally understand that some of us (I'm sure myself included) come across as bitter fans, but, aside from a couple players, it's the same team that was iced last year. New coach included. The team got off to a great start and ended up being the worst team in the league after January. IMO, criticism is warranted regardless of what city they're playing in.

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10-11-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
You're including all the positive comments from Thrash fans about Enstrom, Kane, Burmi, Thorburn, Wheeler, and Ladd too I assume.

I totally understand that some of us (I'm sure myself included) come across as bitter fans, but, aside from a couple players, it's the same team that was iced last year. New coach included. The team got off to a great start and ended up being the worst team in the league after January.
I should clarify that statement: it is more than a little tiresome having so many (not all) Thrasher fans continually attempting to project their own past onto new franchise management, coaching, and ownership - all located in a new city.

Sorry for the generalization, was not my intent.

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10-11-2011, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I should clarify that statement: it is more than a little tiresome having so many (not all) Thrasher fans continually attempting to project their own past onto new franchise management, coaching, and ownership - all located in a new city.

Sorry for the generalization, was not my intent.
You have to understand, that what we saw in the 5-1 loss, was exactly what we saw last year and what some have seen for years. You have to understand people WILL BE skeptical until change ACTUALLY HAPPENS on the ice. And that will take time.

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10-11-2011, 11:21 AM
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He seems to be doing fine for you guys as a defenseman. Maybe park his ass in front of the net on the PP. It's good he finally has his position set.

That being said, I'd expect a down year out of Buff. Once he got paid here, he coasted until playoff time. We'll likely see the same this year. Hopefully the Jets fly into the playoffs.

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10-11-2011, 11:23 AM
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You have to understand, that what we saw in the 5-1 loss, was exactly what we saw last year and what some have seen for years. You have to understand people WILL BE skeptical until change ACTUALLY HAPPENS on the ice. And that will take time.
I have no clue why so many people on this board have such a hard time realizing this.

This is not an expansion team, and just because they have new management, ownership and city to play in doesn't mean a full 180 is going to happen overnight.

A former Thrasher fan voicing their opinion on players or the situation is not always a bitter person voicing their hate. Believe it or not we have watched these guys for many years, which more often than not included new coaching staff almost every year, so you can understand some of the skepticism coming from some of us.

I will admit we have a few scorn posters who sometimes make their way here, but the majority of us are simply trying to share a completely valid opinion on this team. We need to take out the Thrashers fans/Jets fans split that is apparent on this board and take every opinion without bias.


Unless it's a stupid opinion like trading Enstrom or Slater

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10-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
I have no clue why so many people on this board have such a hard time realizing this.
A hard time realizing this or sick of hearing about it in every single post? Can you just leave the part of your comment that says, "We've seen this, we know stuff, blah blah blah" assumed?

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10-11-2011, 11:41 AM
  #61
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You have to understand, that what we saw in the 5-1 loss, was exactly what we saw last year and what some have seen for years. You have to understand people WILL BE skeptical until change ACTUALLY HAPPENS on the ice. And that will take time.
Here is what I see on this board. Many hockey fans in Winnipeg have uttered suggestions about the team that are surprising to Atlanta fans, some of them even admittedly have been a bit way out there, such as trading Enstrom. While at the same time, you folks stress that practically anything that runs counter to your own past group-think is way out there and is immediately to be dismissed; honestly, I'd rather also hear the opinions of Winnipeg fans than have them dismissed outright.

Another poster on the other thread just suggested that some of the Winnipeg fan opinions are simply due getting to know the new team; I fully disagree with that. Again, all due respect intended, but the level of hockey knowledge offered by many Winnipeg fans here is likely on the whole to be far superior to that of most Atlanta fans, many of whom became fans of the sport by watching it on television or watching NHL games in person. Many of us here in Winnipeg have played hockey since we were able to walk, have had the benefit of good coaching and as well a lifetime of watching the game. Many of us played the game at a high level, some coach, some of those coach at a high level. Can't speak for others here but I've past teammates and opponents who played in the NHL, one who is now currently an assistant coach in the league. I'm not dropping names, it is just fact.

We may have ideas about players that run counter to past group-think here, and they should not be immediately dismissed as the opinion of a casual fan that is just learning the team.

You guys idolize Enstrom, great. He is a good player. But he is also the leader of a d-core that gave up the second most goals against in the league. The making of wholesale changes here is not necessarily out of order. A player like Enstrom for all we know could potentially eventually possibly be traded for a guy like Hamonic for example, a local kid with tons of upside and size, along with picks and prospects. Making that move would not necessarily be a bad one from my perspective, nor from a long term perspective, though it would likely be railed against by the Atlanta contingent here. I'm undecided as of yet. Frankly though, Chevy has said that he wants this team to be difficult to play against from a physical perspective; Enstrom offers none of that and that may in fact be what the trade Enstrom boys are trying to say? Not sure. I just know that the fans of a team that made the playoffs once, many if not most whom have little background in the sport... should not set themselves up as the default opinion on this board since many have equal or more to offer. Just because some here may offer opinions that are different does not immediately make them either wrong or uninformed.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 10-11-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old
10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
  #62
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send Sheifele to Jr Move buff to forward and call up postma

done

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10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
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more assumptions....yawn


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10-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #64
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Sorry Lynk, but this post just reeks of sour grapes.

No one is willing to give a new coaching staff more than one regular season game to figure this out?

They have barely practiced special teams and systems as a final roster together and already people are badmouthing them.

Give it a rest! Can you imagine if you came to a new organization in your field of work and people were raking you through the coals after one week?

It is extremely frustrating to read this stuff, especially from someone like you who I like and respect as a poster.

If you were saying this stuff in December, I could stomach it, but these guys need to see for themselves what they have.

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I seriously hope the coaching staff knows what idiots they were pairing Byfuglien with Oduya and never make that mistake again.

While Toby and Hainsey would be the ultimate shut down pairing, it's not worth the expense of another. I think we can stop the Buff to forward speculations because realistically I don't think any of us ever see it happening. He signed that huge contract because of his play in the 1st half of last year as a defenseman and that's most likely where he's going to stay.

I sincerely hope this almighty coaching staff everyone keeps raving about is able to work wonders with him, because even in Noel's defense first system Buff was still pinching as much as he was in Ramsay's and getting nothing done in the process. If they can get his game in our zone fixed then I will be somewhat happy, but at the same time he is being paid a hell of a lot of money and that is based on his ability to score. That is what fears me the most is him re-capturing his scoring touch from the first half of last year.

I'm not going to post his 1st and 2nd half stats because I've done it so much I think it's permanently my ctrl + v. This guy just looks snake bitten when it comes to offense. He made a lot of attempts last night both even strength and on the power play and none of them really looked like much of a threat.

He's going to be here for a little while so let's hope it's a matter of coaching to bring him back to all-star status because we're in for troublesome times if they can't.

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10-11-2011, 11:53 AM
  #65
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He seems to be doing fine for you guys as a defenseman. Maybe park his ass in front of the net on the PP. It's good he finally has his position set.

That being said, I'd expect a down year out of Buff. Once he got paid here, he coasted until playoff time. We'll likely see the same this year. Hopefully the Jets fly into the playoffs.
This is a couple good points. Maybe start with a compromise and put him on the wing for the PP. If it works, maybe it'll stick and bleed over into ES.

I really do hope he doesn't get fat cat syndrome (pun intended) and get lazy. He just signed a big contract with 4 years left. If he gets lazy, that $5 a year contract is going to be real difficult, if not impossible, to move.

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10-11-2011, 11:57 AM
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There's your problem. It's a catch 22. Someone suggested that if Buff doesn't figure stuff out, then maybe we can get something for him. If Byfuglien doesn't figure it out (which I really believe he will) no one is going to want to take on that risk AND give up a quality player.

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This is a couple good points. Maybe start with a compromise and put him on the wing for the PP. If it works, maybe it'll stick and bleed over into ES.

I really do hope he doesn't get fat cat syndrome (pun intended) and get lazy. He just signed a big contract with 4 years left. If he gets lazy, that $5 a year contract is going to be real difficult, if not impossible, to move.

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10-11-2011, 11:57 AM
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more assumptions....yawn



If you are attempting to dismiss my comments as assumptions, how about refuting them instead rather than offering a 3 word dismissal?

Is your argument that the level of hockey knowledge in Atlanta is superior to that of Winnipeg, or even that you've a deeper insight regarding these players, one above that of those of us that regularly watched this team via NHL Center Ice from afar?

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10-11-2011, 12:01 PM
  #68
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Here is what I see on this board. Many hockey fans in Winnipeg have uttered suggestions about the team that are surprising to Atlanta fans, some of them even admittedly have been a bit way out there, such as trading Enstrom. While at the same time, you folks stress that practically anything that runs counter to your own past group-think is way out there and is immediately to be dismissed; honestly, I'd rather also hear the opinions of Winnipeg fans than have them dismissed outright.

Another poster on the other thread just suggested that some of the Winnipeg fan opinions are simply due getting to know the new team; I fully disagree with that. Again, all due respect intended, but the level of hockey knowledge offered by many Winnipeg fans here is likely on the whole to be far superior to that of most Atlanta fans, many of whom became fans of the sport by watching it on television or watching NHL games in person. Many of us here in Winnipeg have played hockey since we were able to walk, have had the benefit of good coaching and as well a lifetime of watching the game. Many of us played the game at a high level, some coach, some of those coach at a high level. Can't speak for others here but I've past teammates and opponents who played in the NHL, one who is now currently an assistant coach in the league. I'm not dropping names, it is just fact.

We may have ideas about players that run counter to past group-think here, and they should not be immediately dismissed as the opinion of a casual fan that is just learning the team.

You guys idolize Enstrom, great. He is a good player. But he is also the leader of a d-core that gave up the second most goals against in the league. The making of wholesale changes here is not necessarily out of order. A player like Enstrom for all we know could potentially eventually possibly be traded for a guy like Hamonic for example, a local kid with tons of upside and size, along with picks and prospects. Making that move would not necessarily be a bad one from my perspective, nor from a long term perspective, though it would likely be railed against by the Atlanta contingent here. I'm undecided as of yet. Frankly though, Chevy has said that he wants this team to be difficult to play against from a physical perspective; Enstrom offers none of that and that may in fact be what the trade Enstrom boys are trying to say? Not sure. I just know that the fans of a team that made the playoffs once, many if not most whom have little background in the sport... should not set themselves up as the default opinion on this board since many have equal or more to offer. Just because some here may offer opinions that are different does not immediately make them either wrong or uninformed.
Really? I mean really?

And then you back up it up with this which suggest you've seen very little of this team. Not a shot at you, just how it comes off.

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Sorry Lynk, but this post just reeks of sour grapes.

No one is willing to give a new coaching staff more than one regular season game to figure this out?

They have barely practiced special teams and systems as a final roster together and already people are badmouthing them.

Give it a rest! Can you imagine if you came to a new organization in your field of work and people were raking you through the coals after one week?

It is extremely frustrating to read this stuff, especially from someone like you who I like and respect as a poster.

If you were saying this stuff in December, I could stomach it, but these guys need to see for themselves what they have.
I think Atlanta fans ARE willing to give the coaching staff a chance. It's just a little frustrating that the first game gives the same vibes as the 2nd half of last year, especially with some of the changes as far as the line-up goes(Oduya with Buff and Kane's 10 mins or ice time). You can't deny those are questionable moves. I've had to catch myself more then once with possibly being too impatient though. It's a hard transition at this point.


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10-11-2011, 12:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post


If you are attempting to dismiss my comments as assumptions, how about refuting them instead rather than offering a 3 word dismissal?

Is your argument that the level of hockey knowledge in Atlanta is superior to that of Winnipeg, or even that you've a deeper insight regarding these players, one above that of those of us that regularly watched this team via NHL Center Ice from afar?
i dont think fans need to list their resumes to have an informed opinion. If 'fans' are on HFboards to begin with, i'd say they're pretty into the sport...not sure why so thin skinned, not every Atlanta/Winnipeg mention needs to turn into US vs THEM...we ARE a fan of the Winnipeg Jets.

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10-11-2011, 12:04 PM
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You have to understand, that what we saw in the 5-1 loss, was exactly what we saw last year and what some have seen for years. You have to understand people WILL BE skeptical until change ACTUALLY HAPPENS on the ice. And that will take time.
Agreed.

I remain very optimistic and am excited to watch our growth under new coaches,GM,etc.Also,the fanbase up there i saw on TV was just flat out awesome!!!!

You guys rock \m/ \m/

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10-11-2011, 12:08 PM
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i dont think fans need to list their resumes to have an informed opinion. If 'fans' are on HFboards to begin with, i'd say they're pretty into the sport...not sure why so thin skinned, not every Atlanta/Winnipeg mention needs to turn into US vs THEM...we ARE a fan of the Winnipeg Jets.
Many Atlanta fans seem to want to define the team from their perspective. Our perspective (speaking as a Winnipeg fan) may be different in many cases. I'm not being thin skinned; I'm saying don't tell me how to think about the team. I've seen far too many cases of late of Atlanta fans offering their opinion as the default opinion. It is not.

We are all equal, and those saying trade Enstrom or move Buf to forward are not just spewing sacrilege. They are just coming at it from a different perspective.

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10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
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Sorry Lynk, but this post just reeks of sour grapes.

No one is willing to give a new coaching staff more than one regular season game to figure this out?

They have barely practiced special teams and systems as a final roster together and already people are badmouthing them.

Give it a rest! Can you imagine if you came to a new organization in your field of work and people were raking you through the coals after one week?

It is extremely frustrating to read this stuff, especially from someone like you who I like and respect as a poster.

If you were saying this stuff in December, I could stomach it, but these guys need to see for themselves what they have.

Trust me there's no sour grapes.

I apologize for the "almighty" part, but given how highly this coaching staff has been touted I would assume anyone who knows what they're doing would not be pairing your 2 best shutdown defensemen together while putting your 2 worst together. On top of that they for what ever reason play Kane for 10 minutes when he actually looked strong each time he was on the ice.

Some glaring mistakes on opening night and there was no active changes either, it just stayed the same way for 60 minutes. If I was brought in to a new job and I was able to view the past on how things went, I would've seen a slow and lackluster defenseman in Dustin Byfuglien and not gone and paired him with the 2nd worst defensive d-man.

If they had watched any tape they would've seen just how bad those 2 were as individuals and not gone and put them together.


Again I am holding out the first game was simply a learning and testing phase to see what works, but that doesn't mean I have sour grapes.

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10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
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Really? I mean really?

And then you back up it up with this which suggest you've seen very little of this team. Not a shot at you, just how it comes off.
I'm not saying trade Enstrom; what I'm saying is that it wouldn't necessarily be as bad a move as you'd state it to be. Honestly, 3 years from now this team would be better off with Hamonic on the blueline versus Enstrom, IMO.

Obviously you don't know much about Hamonic.

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10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
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Many Atlanta fans seem to want to define the team from their perspective. Our perspective (speaking as a Winnipeg fan) may be different in many cases. I'm not being thin skinned; I'm saying don't tell me how to think about the team. I've seen far too many cases of late of Atlanta fans offering their opinion as the default opinion. It is not.

We are all equal, and those saying trade Enstrom or move Buf to forward are not just spewing sacrilege. They are just coming at it from a different perspective.
I'm confused about this part because well, everyone would be on board with this and would have little to no problem with that move. So I'm really starting to wonder where you continue to try and go with your posts.

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10-11-2011, 12:15 PM
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Really? I mean really?

And then you back up it up with this which suggest you've seen very little of this team. Not a shot at you, just how it comes off.



I think Atlanta fans ARE willing to give the coaching staff a chance. It's just a little frustrating that the first game gives the same vibes as the 2nd half of last year, especially with some of the changes as far as the line-up goes(Oduya with Buff and Kane's 10 mins or ice time). You can't deny those are questionable moves. I've had to catch myself more then once with possibly being too impatient though. It's a hard transition at this point.
Yes I can deny that. This coaching staff needs to see what they have.

You have NO idea why Kane got 10 minutes of ice time last game. Do you have insight the rest of us don't have? Do you seriously think the coaching and management of this team doesn't realize what they have in Kane?

Perhaps he is injured. Maybe they were sending him a message for something that he did that you missed. Maybe they needed to see something from other players. You and I have NO idea what was going on with the coaches but to be so critical of them game one is absolutely unfair, unreasonable and just damned impatient.

You cannot project what you know about this team on the new coaching. You are in for a world of frustration if you do. These guys jobs are to turn this team into a winner. If you think they don't have a hell of a bigger stake in this than you then you are mistaken.

Again, if its December and the coaching staff is still playing Kane 10 minutes, or forcing 2 defencemen together that just don't work well, then have at 'er.

I also feel it necessary to apologize if this post comes off as angry, or overly harsh. I am more frustrated with the overall 'vibe' of the board right now, the chicken little syndrome after one game and the continued sniping between WPG and ATL fans.

I do know all of this will subside as we move into the season and assimilate. It's just tough to read right now.

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