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10-11-2011, 11:16 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Many Atlanta fans seem to want to define the team from their perspective. Our perspective (speaking as a Winnipeg fan) may be different in many cases. I'm not being thin skinned; I'm saying don't tell me how to think about the team. I've seen far too many cases of late of Atlanta fans offering their opinion as the default opinion. It is not.

We are all equal, and those saying trade Enstrom or move Buf to forward are not just spewing sacrilege. They are just coming at it from a different perspective.
I can't speak for anybody but myself, we all have opinions, some agreeable, some not..this is nothing new. We can diasgree, argue, fluff to our hearts content. Thats what makes this place fun. It's not always going to come up roses.

One reason why i stayed away over the summer is I didnt want to get involved in the US v THEM aspect of the transition, but actual HOCKEY is now back, so i look forward to discussing the JETS again, and part of that involves the Thrashers from 10/11.

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10-11-2011, 11:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I'm confused about this part because well, everyone would be on board with this and would have little to no problem with that move. So I'm really starting to wonder where you continue to try and go with your posts.
That (Buf) was a bad example on my part. Regarding Buf, frankly, I'd rather see him elsewhere, on another team, versus the forward or defense argument going on here.

Here is what I'm saying. You've seemingly set yourself up as the default opinion versus anyone that says anything counter to what you think. Just because Enstrom is your favorite d-man on the team does not mean that he couldn't be leveraged for a better option in the future. Some of us don't have the personal attachment; just because you'd not like it does not mean the team would be worse off on the whole though.

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10-11-2011, 11:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Yes I can deny that. This coaching staff needs to see what they have.

You have NO idea why Kane got 10 minutes of ice time last game. Do you have insight the rest of us don't have? Do you seriously think the coaching and management of this team doesn't realize what they have in Kane?

Perhaps he is injured. Maybe they were sending him a message for something that he did that you missed. Maybe they needed to see something from other players. You and I have NO idea what was going on with the coaches but to be so critical of them game one is absolutely unfair, unreasonable and just damned impatient.

You cannot project what you know about this team on the new coaching. You are in for a world of frustration if you do. These guys jobs are to turn this team into a winner. If you think they don't have a hell of a bigger stake in this than you then you are mistaken.

Again, if its December and the coaching staff is still playing Kane 10 minutes, or forcing 2 defencemen together that just don't work well, then have at 'er.
Well my question to you is, do you not think that Kane is our most talented forward?(just looking for your opinion really)

Also, if it's December and those things are still happening, then we as a fanbase and the media especially, are a little slow. It won't take us that long to realize there's a problem, and I HOPE TO GOD the coaching staff doesn't take that long to figure things out.

Fyi, I do think it was kinda harsh, but I don't care really. I'm not going to get into a heated argument with a Mod about it. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

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10-11-2011, 11:23 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
i dont think fans need to list their resumes to have an informed opinion. If 'fans' are on HFboards to begin with, i'd say they're pretty into the sport...not sure why so thin skinned, not every Atlanta/Winnipeg mention needs to turn into US vs THEM...we ARE a fan of the Winnipeg Jets.
Are many from Atlanta not consistently listing their resumes? Gump is trying to make the same point I have been. We can tell by your location that you (you being the collective you) probably watched the team a lot last year. That doesn't make you a pro scout or give you expert insight.

I don't think trading Enstrom is the way to go but, how else could you change the team make up quickly? Ladd, Enstrom and maybe Little have any real market value at this stage.

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10-11-2011, 11:26 AM
  #80
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Some of the Chicken Little's here really need to step back from the ledge.

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10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
Are many from Atlanta not consistently listing their resumes? Gump is trying to make the same point I have been. We can tell by your location that you (you being the collective you) probably watched the team a lot last year. That doesn't make you a pro scout or give you expert insight.

I don't think trading Enstrom is the way to go but, how else could you change the team make up quickly? Ladd, Enstrom and maybe Little have any real market value at this stage.
Why not Scheifele as well, he probably has real market value at this point too.

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10-11-2011, 11:28 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Well my question to you is, do you not think that Kane is our most talented forward?(just looking for your opinion really)

Also, if it's December and those things are still happening, then we as a fanbase and the media especially, are a little slow. It won't take us that long to realize there's a problem, and I HOPE TO GOD the coaching staff doesn't take that long to figure things out.

Fyi, I do think it was kinda harsh, but I don't care really. I'm not going to get into a heated argument with a Mod about it. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Right at this very moment do I think that Kane is our best forward? I think the jury is out. I do think he has unreal potential and is already a helluva player. I think Little could give him a run for his money, and a motivated Wheeler is no slouch either.

I think that Kane has a very real potential to develop into our best (Burmistrov might end up better there as well but who knows). That's why I wonder if the coaches had an ulterior motive for Kanes 10 minutes. I was just saying that you and I don't know that.

As for the getting into it with a mod, I sure hope you and everyone here feels completely comfortable debating anything with me here wrt hockey. When I'm talking Jets, my opinion is more than fair game. I am first and foremost a fan of the team, and game, and though I like to think so, I'm not always right.

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10-11-2011, 11:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
Are many from Atlanta not consistently listing their resumes? Gump is trying to make the same point I have been. We can tell by your location that you (you being the collective you) probably watched the team a lot last year. That doesn't make you a pro scout or give you expert insight.

I don't think trading Enstrom is the way to go but, how else could you change the team make up quickly? Ladd, Enstrom and maybe Little have any real market value at this stage.
You don't think we have a better idea about these players? You don't think watching these guys for years doesn't give us a better idea of their play or how they have developed? You don't think we don't know what it's like to go through a new coach after seeing our now 5th coach in 5 years?

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10-11-2011, 11:31 AM
  #84
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Why not Scheifele as well, he probably has real market value at this point too.
Because he really doesnt.

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10-11-2011, 11:32 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
Are many from Atlanta not consistently listing their resumes? Gump is trying to make the same point I have been. We can tell by your location that you (you being the collective you) probably watched the team a lot last year. That doesn't make you a pro scout or give you expert insight.

I don't think trading Enstrom is the way to go but, how else could you change the team make up quickly? Ladd, Enstrom and maybe Little have any real market value at this stage.
Gonna quote myself to add:

Since people here seem to have a difficult time telling the difference between what I am advocating and what I think is a reasonable opinion to have, I do not think making a big shake up is the best path at this stage. I don't think we have enough value on the team to make it worthwhile.

Regarding Buff, I prefer him at forward. Now, if he can stop playing as a Pee Wee style hot shot rover, a 50-60 point 265lb defenseman is probably more valuable.

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10-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
Are many from Atlanta not consistently listing their resumes? Gump is trying to make the same point I have been. We can tell by your location that you (you being the collective you) probably watched the team a lot last year. That doesn't make you a pro scout or give you expert insight.

I don't think trading Enstrom is the way to go but, how else could you change the team make up quickly? Ladd, Enstrom and maybe Little have any real market value at this stage.
Thank you. My sentiments exactly.


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10-11-2011, 11:37 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
You don't think we have a better idea about these players? You don't think watching these guys for years doesn't give us a better idea of their play or how they have developed? You don't think we don't know what it's like to go through a new coach after seeing our now 5th coach in 5 years?
No I don't. You may have a better idea than many or most, but that doesn't make you an expert e.g. I'd take Claude Noel's or Mike Babcock's opinion after seeing 5 games than most others watching 500. You are making a mistake by assuming volume trumps expertise.

Which are these players you've been watching for 5 years? There are only 3 players on the team who have been here for close to that long.

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10-11-2011, 12:09 PM
  #88
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Again, if its December and the coaching staff is still playing Kane 10 minutes, or forcing 2 defencemen together that just don't work well, then have at 'er.
Bingo. In my honest opinion, being critical right now is useless. This will take some time and patience, we're just getting started here.

I'll talk, analyze in-depth and be critical in December and January for much of what is being discussed about the team after 1 game. But right now? Not a chance. To me, as far as on-ice play today, and this is absolutely no slight to anyone, I personally don't care where this team came from, how they played, how many coaches they went through, etc.. it's just not logical to dissect things too much right now based on performances from years prior. I believe the surroundings and circumstances with the team, players and organization are night and day different. It's a clean slate, and I'd bet the players feel the same way too. There will be a transition period for this team and coaching staff, and yes, I do believe it could take a couple months for everyone to really get comfortable and adjusted. Even when a player gets traded, for example, it can take a solid 10-12 games to get adjusted, but to me this is a whole new ballgame with a much bigger change, and that goes for everyone. I think time and patience is key here. We may not see what we want to see out of this team, or players such as Bogosian, Byfuglien, etc, until December when everyone is adjusted and comfortable. We may see positive change sooner, i'm not saying we won't, by MY opinion is to give everyone a couple or few months to get adjusted and comfortable to all aspects of this change and move.

As for the Winnipeg-Atlanta discussion, I get where both sides are coming from, but again, i'll talk in December when the team is adjusted to their new surroundings. I believe many of these players, especially the core ones we're really going to rely on are real solid NHL'ers and I believe in this situation and with this organization and coaching staff, they're coachable and i'm looking forward to seeing these players grow into their roles and potential. However, what happened last year or at any time in Atlanta means nothing to me, personally. It's a new beginning, time and experience for all of these players, it's a clean slate, ask Bogosian. The organization stressed to him his slate is clean and what happened in Atlanta has been left in Atlanta. Some will make it, some will not. We'll see. But i'll be the guy giving time and patience and watching for myself before I analyze things too much.

As for players who played a certain way or had certain habbits in Atlanta, we've been blessed with great insight and information from our fellow Atlanta fans, but I think some Jets fans would like to form their own opinion and see things their own way rather than hearing what happened last season in Atlanta after every bad game or play by whichever player. We get it, and understand it, and as I said are greatful for the information and insight we got on players over the summer, but I think some just grow tired of hearing it continuously here, especially after game 1. If things are the same in December and January, i'll be glad to talk, but right now it can be tiresome.

Again, that's no slight or knock to anyone, nor do I intend to be or sound rude or disrespectful. There is a fine line here, and as a fanbase I hope we can all get on the same page. It will take time and thats understandable. However, I think in terms of discussing the team, if you're going to give insight this early in the year based on last season, and as much as we tend to hear it, I suppose with some fans it won't sit well because we've heard it plenty enough to this point and through the summer that we'd just like to see thing for ourselves. I respect everyones opinions, but I personally find it a touch tiresome and repetitive myself. I suppose since everyone is free to voice their opinions, read and respond to what you would like. If you don't like it, and it's not breaking HF board rules - ignore it. Truth is we will eventually get to a point where the past means squat and we'll all have our own formed opinions based on what we see today.

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Last edited by Guerzy: 10-11-2011 at 12:17 PM.
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Old
10-11-2011, 12:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
No I don't. You may have a better idea than many or most, but that doesn't make you an expert e.g. I'd take Claude Noel's or Mike Babcock's opinion after seeing 5 games than most others watching 500. You are making a mistake by assuming volume trumps expertise.

Which are these players you've been watching for 5 years? There are only 3 players on the team who have been here for close to that long.
Well then I hope you expect no one to take your opinion seriously since you don't take anyone elses.

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10-11-2011, 12:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post

As for players who played a certain way or had certain habbits in Atlanta, we've been blessed with great insight and information from our fellow Atlanta fans, but I think some Jets fans would like to form their own opinion and see things their own way rather than hearing what happened last season in Atlanta after every bad game or play by whichever player. We get it, and understand it, and as I said are greatful for the information and insight we got on players over the summer, but I think some just grow tired of hearing it continuously here, especially after game 1. If things are the same in December and January, i'll be glad to talk, but right now it can be tiresome.

Again, that's no slight or knock to anyone, nor do I intend to be or sound rude or disrespectful. There is a fine line here, and as a fanbase I hope we can all get on the same page. It will take time and thats understandable. However, I think in terms of discussing the team, if you're going to give insight this early in the year based on last season, and as much as we tend to hear it, I suppose with some fans it won't sit well because we've heard it plenty enough to this point and through the summer that we'd just like to see thing for ourselves. I respect everyones opinions, but I personally find it a touch tiresome and repetitive myself. I suppose since everyone is free to voice their opinions, read and respond to what you would like. If you don't like it, and it's not breaking HF board rules - ignore it. Truth is we will eventually get to a point where the past means squat and we'll all have our own formed opinions based on what we see today.
DING DING DING!

Great post, Guerzy.


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10-11-2011, 12:21 PM
  #91
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If you don't like it, and it's not breaking HF board rules - ignore it.
yep. pretty much the grand rule. everyones entitled to their opinions.

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10-11-2011, 12:22 PM
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Well said Guerzy.

We're obviously in the beginning phase which is going to make it impossible for situations like this to be avoided, but in time we should all be on the same page, so to speak.

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10-11-2011, 12:31 PM
  #93
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Bingo guys. I think at the end of the day it is important for everyone to remember we can all voice and share opinions here, so long as it is not violating HF board rules, which we all must follow. There are two options for all of us whether we like or dislike something that is not breaking board rules - respond to it or ignore it. We all have that choice.

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10-11-2011, 12:31 PM
  #94
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Well then I hope you expect no one to take your opinion seriously since you don't take anyone elses.
You really like to make stuff up don't ya. Do you really believe I said I don't take any ones opinion seriously?

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10-11-2011, 02:12 PM
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Sounds like Kane with be with Burmistrov and Antropov against Chicag0

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10-11-2011, 02:24 PM
  #96
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Sounds like Kane with be with Burmistrov and Antropov against Chicag0
Where did you hear that? It's great news if true.

I think the writing is on the wall for Scheifele. It's just not worth it to keep him up here if he's only going to play on the 3rd line.

Plus Wellwood doesn't exactly seem like a top six forward at this point in his career.

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10-11-2011, 02:28 PM
  #97
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Where did you hear that? It's great news if true.
I think the writing is on the wall for Scheifele. It's just not worth it to keep him up here if he's only going to play on the 3rd line.

Plus Wellwood doesn't exactly seem like a top six forward at this point in his career.
http://twitter.com/#!/PentonKirk/sta...94929200807936

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Evander Kane is with Alex Burmistrov and Nik Antropov, while Brett MacLean joins Mark Scheifele and Kyle Wellwood. #winnipegjets

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10-11-2011, 04:12 PM
  #98
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i'm still trying to figure out what exactly people think would improve by trading enstrom.

i've been on the same ice as nhlers, and some of them happen to be on this team. does that make my opinion more qualified than others because i've skated with them?

dear god.

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10-11-2011, 05:28 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That (Buf) was a bad example on my part. Regarding Buf, frankly, I'd rather see him elsewhere, on another team, versus the forward or defense argument going on here.

Here is what I'm saying. You've seemingly set yourself up as the default opinion versus anyone that says anything counter to what you think. Just because Enstrom is your favorite d-man on the team does not mean that he couldn't be leveraged for a better option in the future. Some of us don't have the personal attachment; just because you'd not like it does not mean the team would be worse off on the whole though.
That is exactly the point. Enstrom may be a guy that can eventually be moved and the overall look of the team changes. No one is trading a player 1 game into the season. He has a $3.75 million salary which would be very attractive to teams and we could get a higher priced top 3 forward in return as we have no cap issues. 41 games into the season if the ship is sinking watch for TNSE and Chevy to start putting their fingerprints all over this hockey team. Even if the ship isn't sinking watch for moves to be made for the betterment of the organization moving forward. My 2 cents.

My nickname for Enstrom is now "Lars" is honour of a similar D-man the Jets once had and former Jets captain Lars Erik Sjoberg.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=14334

If he can play like Sjoberg he will retire a Jet. The jury is still out.

Buff need extensive work with Huddy. I didn't hear any reports of the defensive pairings changing in practice today so I expect the status quo for Thursday in Chicago.


Last edited by blues10: 10-11-2011 at 05:30 PM. Reason: sp.
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10-11-2011, 06:21 PM
  #100
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Trading Enstrom isn't for the betterment of the organization.

I would trade just about every single player on the roster before I trade Toby.

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