HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Andrei Markov ,is it worth the wait ??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-10-2011, 05:40 PM
  #51
Gainey#1*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa/Calgary
Posts: 2,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Agreed 100% ....wake up dudes Markov will never be the Markov of old

a waste of money


You haven't even seen Markov since the injury. He played 7 games last time after his surgery and getting re-injured. How can you say he will never be the same? Nobody knows for sure.

If the knee heals fine, I see no reason why Markov won't be effective. His game was not like Koivu's where it was all based on speed and quick shifts left/right. Markov is very conservative, is an impeccable passer, and can fire the puck.

He can play one leg and be effective.

Haters gonna hate.

I can't wait for Markov to return and shut all you hater's up.

Gainey#1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
  #52
29dryden29
Registered User
 
29dryden29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 500
NO he is not I have suffered 9 knee knee injuries that have had to be repaired surgicaly once you tear your ACL it is never the same and becomes easier and easier to tear.

29dryden29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 06:42 PM
  #53
WeThreeKings
Sept 19th
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,742
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
NO he is not I have suffered 9 knee knee injuries that have had to be repaired surgicaly once you tear your ACL it is never the same and becomes easier and easier to tear.
Did you have the same recent surgery that Markov had?
Are you a professional athlete?
Do you frequent the gym, get paid to do so?
Do you have a strength/conditioning coach?
Do you have a nutritionist?
Do you have people constantly monitoring you and watching your rehabilitation from those knee injuries?

I'd be surprised if you answer yes to more than one of those questions. Will it be the same? who knows. Will he be the same? who knows. But you can not definitively say he won't be fine and that your experience is any way close to being a correct indicator for Markov.

WeThreeKings is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 08:17 PM
  #54
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
just passing to say that Markov will retire as a Habs

Quarantesix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 09:00 PM
  #55
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,806
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
just passing to say that Markov will retire as a Habs
NEXT WEEK BECAUSE HE'S FINISHED LOLOLOLOLOLL!!!!1

Yeah, it's sad that some people don't remember how amazing Markov was on the PP. That across-the-box pass to Kovalev, right on the stick? Magic.

Gabe84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 09:55 PM
  #56
Captain Saku
Registered User
 
Captain Saku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 12,144
vCash: 500
Markov is a tremendous player, but sadly I don't think he'll ever be the same player anymore. Granted, we still haven't seen him playing regular hockey since more than a year now but I don't see how he can keep up after 2 very serious injuries to the knee. I'll be extremely happy if he comes back better than ever though.

Captain Saku is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2011, 10:11 PM
  #57
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,244
vCash: 500
PG should wait for Markov to return. I'm leery of his giving up too much for a temporary replacement. Not one of the Dmen he traded for last year is still on the team. Besides, no really good Dmen would be on the market this early in the season.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 12:00 AM
  #58
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
I've watched him since day one, always like him but i find myself asking the questions, is he worth the wait anymore, could the habs have spent the dollars somewhere else, and just moved on.
I argued that we should've traded him years ago to avoid the decline and built with younger players and I still feel it would've made sense to do so back then.

This time around, I'd say that management didn't have a whole lot of choice but to re-sign him. The alternative was to let him walk for nothing and we just couldn't afford to do that. We were stuck between a rock and a hard place with him and we had to just bite the bullet. I would've liked to have a seen a shorter term on the deal but you can't blame management for re-upping with him because they really didn't have much of a choice. Wiz might've made sense but he was asking for way too much cash. And even then, I'd have hated for us to lose yet another player for absolutely no return.

I will say though that should we somehow get an opportunity to trade him for a good package of young players then we should do so. Providing that he returns and is good enough to help a contending team win, he would be an attractive asset and if we could get players that we can build with for the future, we should take it.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 12:56 AM
  #59
Burke
Registered User
 
Burke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
The wait was worth it, it is the next wait that wont be.

Burke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 02:28 AM
  #60
BobbyFischer*
 
BobbyFischer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Signing Wiz for 3 years at a cheaper cap hit, would have been the way to go, and I'll tell you why.

He gives you an absolute lethal weapon on the PP, that opens up room for other players because they have to worry about his bomb from the point. Underrated passing ability. Sand paper factor, he isn't afraid to stick up for his teammates and will drop em if need be as well as dish out big hits, thus making your team tougher.

Also, he is very young, just entering his prime, and could have been part of this team's core for years to come. Yes, OK, granted, 5mil/year is a TAD much for a player like him however.. if he kept up scoring, and assisting on goals like the way he was with this Montreal group, and I don't see why that would have stopped.. he would have been worth the money.

Instead, the habs choose to sign a 33yr old horribly injury plagued Markov to a 3year deal. Not a 1year... or even a risky 2 year deal.... but no, a 3 year deal! Couldn't sign him for a 1yr deal, see how he progresses and sign him to an extension mid-season??


Last edited by BobbyFischer*: 10-11-2011 at 02:34 AM.
BobbyFischer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 02:52 AM
  #61
XperHFB
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 573
vCash: 500
Hmm Markov, the 5.75 million dollar question: Is he worth the wait?

I know most trollers here will say Yes he is, but honestly his really not.

At 33 years old, out for 2 years,second surgery on the same spot, half the time spent in recovering (not actually training,skating) how do you want him to be back top condition?


Lets be real for a minute

XperHFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 02:52 AM
  #62
BobbyFischer*
 
BobbyFischer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Did you have the same recent surgery that Markov had?
Are you a professional athlete?
Do you frequent the gym, get paid to do so?
Do you have a strength/conditioning coach?
Do you have a nutritionist?
Do you have people constantly monitoring you and watching your rehabilitation from those knee injuries?

I'd be surprised if you answer yes to more than one of those questions. Will it be the same? who knows. Will he be the same? who knows. But you can not definitively say he won't be fine and that your experience is any way close to being a correct indicator for Markov.
Dude.

He is right. Deal with it.

It is a known fact. I don't care if you messed it up playing football, getting in a car accident, whatever.. and you can have the best doctors in the world, it doesn't matter, the facts are the facts.

You think because he's a rich professional athlete it is going to be a different story?

I don't care who you are, how rich you are.. facts are the facts.

Steve Jobs had 8 billion dollars and was the top dog in one of the biggest most profitable companies in the world, did that save him?

At the end of the day, people are people, and facts are facts.

This is one move, everyone kind of realizes was dumb (especially the 3yr part) but some still choose to pray and hope that Markov will somehow play up to expectations. Others kind of realize this was a bad move, and just hope he can be 60-70% of what he was in his prime, and they would be OK with it.

We'll see what happens but, it doesn't look good, if you know anything about the type of injuries he is trying to come back from, his age, and how important your knees are for this game.

BobbyFischer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 05:06 AM
  #63
pavelbure44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Dude.

We'll see what happens but, it doesn't look good, if you know anything about the type of injuries he is trying to come back from, his age, and how important your knees are for this game.
So, let me get this straight. Signing Markov was a bad idea because he's already had knee surgery twice and we have no idea in what condition he's going to come back in. He's now labelled as an injury prone defenseman.

Instead, you suggest that we should have signed James Wisniewski to a 3 year deal. The same James Wisniewski who also suffered a torn ACL a few years ago, and has also had multiple knee surgeries in different seasons. The same James Wisniewski who is nowhere near the same calibre of player as Markov.

Players do come back from serious injuries, and many continue to have successful careers. Just look at Selanne, who was being written off a few years ago when he went to Colorado , but just had an 80 point season.

The fact is that right now, none of us know how many games Markov will play over the next few years. What we do know is that when he does play, he's an all star defenseman.

pavelbure44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 05:55 AM
  #64
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,489
vCash: 500
This thread should be frozen and re-opened in May, at which point one side of the argument can then -- and only then -- say, "I told you so", with authority.

Until that point, all we're doing is performing a repeated act of self-gratification...

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 06:49 AM
  #65
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
NO he is not I have suffered 9 knee knee injuries that have had to be repaired surgicaly once you tear your ACL it is never the same and becomes easier and easier to tear.
Do you think PG signed Markov without having consulted orthopedists who are probably more distinguished than those who treated you? With all due respect and sympathy for your having been an unfortunate victim and therefore having more insight into the matter than us laymen, you aren't an expert. Let's wait and see. Maybe your dire prediction will come to pass, maybe Markov won't be reinjured at all and won't require further surgery.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 07:55 AM
  #66
Capitano
Registered User
 
Capitano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,413
vCash: 500
We have no choice, he better be. The problem is that with him out of the lineup it goes without saying that we are at a big disadvantage when it comes to money-talent.

This off-season was a crossroads...we could have kept Wis or Markie...and we chose Markie. It is what it is.

Personally I have my doubts about Markov ever being able to contribute for extended periods of time and through the grind of the playoffs. He will be keyed on in every playoff series he is in...and that's why I am scared.

Capitano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 08:15 AM
  #67
BobbyFischer*
 
BobbyFischer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
We have no choice, he better be. The problem is that with him out of the lineup it goes without saying that we are at a big disadvantage when it comes to money-talent.

This off-season was a crossroads...we could have kept Wis or Markie...and we chose Markie. It is what it is.

Personally I have my doubts about Markov ever being able to contribute for extended periods of time and through the grind of the playoffs. He will be keyed on in every playoff series he is in...and that's why I am scared.
Exactly...

If he gets hit hard and awkwardly or falls awkwardly will he be able to take it.. or will he fold up like an old lawn chair, like he has done in recent memory..

Say, he somehow turns out to be super durable when he comes back (which is pushing it, mind you) it will be interesting to see if he has lost a step or two. He should still be a great d-man but will he be a 5.75/yr d-man?

BobbyFischer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 08:17 AM
  #68
KingGallagherXI
Registered User
 
KingGallagherXI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,828
vCash: 500
Because points alone is a great way to determine the value of a defenseman.

KingGallagherXI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 08:19 AM
  #69
BobbyFischer*
 
BobbyFischer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuts View Post
Because points alone is a great way to determine the value of a defenseman.
Yeah, because how much people like and respect him and how much he loves the franchise is such a better way to determine his value, right? Yeah, that'll help to win games...

BobbyFischer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 08:46 AM
  #70
Patccmoi
Registered User
 
Patccmoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Yeah, because how much people like and respect him and how much he loves the franchise is such a better way to determine his value, right? Yeah, that'll help to win games...
Funny, I would've thought that the other thing people were evaluating him on was his defensive play (which is very decent), but I guess you're right it's about how much he loves the franchise.

Because in case you didn't notice, Wiz was not all that great when it didn't come to putting points on the board and as such could not be used as a #1 D because he's too at risk in his own zone (he was not MAB-bad, but he was not exactly reliable). Markov isn't, he was used as a #1D for a long time.

Patccmoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 08:56 AM
  #71
24Cups
Registered User
 
24Cups's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Do you think PG signed Markov without having consulted orthopedists who are probably more distinguished than those who treated you? With all due respect and sympathy for your having been an unfortunate victim and therefore having more insight into the matter than us laymen, you aren't an expert. Let's wait and see. Maybe your dire prediction will come to pass, maybe Markov won't be reinjured at all and won't require further surgery.
Most people here think the decision was based on looking at the back of Markov's hockey card. Markov is an elite athlete and received elite medical treatment. He'll be back when he's 100%. If the doctors didn't think he could get to 100%, Gauthier would have moved on.

24Cups is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 09:20 AM
  #72
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Cups View Post
Most people here think the decision was based on looking at the back of Markov's hockey card. Markov is an elite athlete and received elite medical treatment. He'll be back when he's 100%. If the doctors didn't think he could get to 100%, Gauthier would have moved on.
I often consider the Case of Chelios. If I remember, he struggled for a couple of years with his knees. May have been a factor in the Trade from Hell.

This is our chance at redemption. Yeah, 50 % Marky is done, but 50 % the guy might be great for 5 more years, or more, if he takes care of himself, which he will.

Worth the risk I think.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 09:26 AM
  #73
lillypad33
Registered User
 
lillypad33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
NO he is not I have suffered 9 knee knee injuries that have had to be repaired surgicaly once you tear your ACL it is never the same and becomes easier and easier to tear.
I think you must have had a really bad surgeon, or a really bad therapist.

I have had reconstructive ACL repair on both knees.
Both knees have been more solid than they were before the surgery.
15 years, and no issues yet..... ( knock on wood )

If you have had surgery 9 times, then honestly....something was going wrong.

lillypad33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 09:41 AM
  #74
Dwight
The French Tickler
 
Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,007
vCash: 500
I've always believed that Markovs game was more cerebral than physical. He sees the game so well, and that's how he became one of the best in the league, perhaps even THE best at what he does. His skating was good, but it was never a defining trait for him.

Even in those 7 games back last year, he had 4 points. A knee injury may slow him down a tad, but considering the fact that it was his mind, his eyes, his hands, and his leadership that helped him become so great, I'm not overly worried.

Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2011, 09:46 AM
  #75
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,739
vCash: 500
People suggesting taht he will never again be the same player have not done any research on pro athletes and these kids of injuries, there are a ton of them and most have them have come back as good as before. Markov's heart and work ethic can't be questionned. I think with any luck at all he should have 4-5 productive NHL seasons left. He is a very cerebral player a la Lidstrom so even if it costs him a bit in mobility he has the smarts to still be an excellent player.

Here is some data on ACL injuries...

http://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BI10...SACLinjury.htm

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.