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Brownlees take on the Nedved signing

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08-27-2004, 08:48 AM
  #1
hockeyaddict101
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Brownlees take on the Nedved signing

I am sure the link will be up later.

According to Brownlee, Phoenix NEVER came back and let Lowe counter offer and Lowe was willling to beat what Nedved signed for.

Lowe would have beat the offer and Nedved really didn't want to play in Edmonton.

(Obviously this was not rocket science, its exactly what many of uf figured out yesterday)

It won't be the first time or last that an agent uses a team as a bargaining chip.


Matheson's take.

According to Matheson Langkow was offered to the Oilers but at a high price (trade price), Lowe is now looking at his options and will go to plan B which will be a trade. According to Matheson this could include Brewer as a main trade chip.

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08-27-2004, 08:57 AM
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Brownlee's take

Is bang on . . .

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08-27-2004, 09:12 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
... Matheson's take.

According to Matheson Langkow was offered to the Oilers but at a high price (trade price), Lowe is now looking at his options and will go to plan B which will be a trade. According to Matheson this could include Brewer as a main trade chip.
So they'll have to go the trade route? And Brewer is the bait? Good crap ... how did it take the Oilers this long to figure it out? On the plus side --> Nedved saved the Oilers from themselves, saved them from making a mistake. I'm grateful for that at least.

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08-27-2004, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
So they'll have to go the trade route? And Brewer is the bait? Good crap ... how did it take the Oilers this long to figure it out? On the plus side --> Nedved saved the Oilers from themselves, saved them from making a mistake. I'm grateful for that at least.
Yep, we agree on that one.

I really never thought Nedved was worth 3.3 million a year, Lowe offered the right amount and he chose to go elsewhere.

I have no malice towards Nedved at all, that was his decision. The ball is in Lowe's court, unlike many I am not going to panic because Lowe has time yet.

Though if the season starts and we don't have a centre I will be the first one complaining!

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08-27-2004, 03:39 PM
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Gawd! Finally some people that are using there heads to ***** this! Thanks for you guys! I have never read a series of more whiney posts in my life. I admit I was a little peeved whe I heard the news, but after going through the many posts of Igor (great breakdowns by the way, you make sense of a lot things with that statistical magic of yours) and reading the Browlee piece this morning, I realized that this by FAR not the end of the world and I am fully confident that Lowe's "Plan B" is actually Plan A and has been for a while as he is not as dumb as some posters make him to be.

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08-27-2004, 03:44 PM
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Well if Brewer is tradebait, who are some of the guys Oilers may be targeting.

IMO:
Jokkinen - Brewer for him straight up, any additions by Oil is overpayment
Legwand - IMO Nashville would have to add, as Legwand has yet to breakout
Datsyuk - Oil may have to add for this one
Marleau - Oilers would be adding
Gagne - 1 for 1 swap (according to hockeydb.com he is a center, I always though he was a winger)
Handzus - Philly adds
Petr Sykora - additions on both sides probably

Feel free to add or take away from the list

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08-27-2004, 03:48 PM
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I think this is why Lowe is starting to frustrate me. If Brewer is indeed the one who is shipped out to address our dearth of skilled centres, then we're creating another huge hole in our line-up. Regardless of whether you feel Brewer is getting ready to break out or that he's already at his best, he is our 2nd best defenseman, behind Jason Smith. Behind those two guys, what do we have? Behind those two guys, our two best defensemen haven't even played a single NHL game between them (Woywitka and Lynch). Sure, we now have pretty good defenseive DEPTH, but we're still pretty thin of defensive QUALITY.

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08-27-2004, 04:24 PM
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If Brewer is the main component of a trade, then atleast we know we will be getting quality in return. I think that if more chips are added, Lecavalier could be pried from Tampa Bay, but if not then some of the other names mentioned above would work. Id love to see Marleau here, but I dont think Brewer would be too much of an upgrade to their stellar, young and cheap defensive corps in San Jose.

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08-27-2004, 04:37 PM
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I'd be shocked to see Brewer traded. Absolutely shocked. IMO Staios or Smith should be moved first. There's got to a trade out there for Staios and say Miknov or some prospect like that for a good center. Losing Brewer hurts this team for the long term/future plans of Lowes IMO.

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08-27-2004, 04:37 PM
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Heatley

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Old
08-27-2004, 04:39 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
Heatley
no, no..... we already traded Gretzky remember? We're talking about Brewer



Brewer, first, Greene for Heatley?

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08-27-2004, 04:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Well if Brewer is tradebait, who are some of the guys Oilers may be targeting.

IMO:
Jokkinen - Brewer for him straight up, any additions by Oil is overpayment
Legwand - IMO Nashville would have to add, as Legwand has yet to breakout
Datsyuk - Oil may have to add for this one
Marleau - Oilers would be adding
Gagne - 1 for 1 swap (according to hockeydb.com he is a center, I always though he was a winger)
Handzus - Philly adds
Petr Sykora - additions on both sides probably

Feel free to add or take away from the list
Jokinen- Won't happen. Why would Florida do this when they have Krajicek and J-bo for the long haul and just signed two vets this summer. They also have Van Ryn.
Legwand- Overrated. Not a no.1 center. That said, Nashville probably wouldn't do it. Again, a team that doesn't need Brewer (Zidlicky, Timmonen, Hamhuis, Suter).
Datsyuk- Heartless. I wouldn't want him. Did you watch the playoffs?
Marleau- Get serious. Maybe for Hemsky, Brewer and York...MAYBE!
Gagne- see Marleau
Handzus- not a no.1 center. He's a great checker with good offense.
Sykora- Sure, we'll just add a 4M dollar winger.

I think the Oilers options are few. We are going to end up with a kid or a marshmallow. I'd rather stink for a couple years and rebuild. Hemsky, Torres, Semenov, Lynch, Woywitka, Brewer, Bergeron, and Stoll should stay. Anyone else is moveable. Short of adding Forsberg I don't like our chances of being a playoff team in the next few years. We are in the toughest division in the league. Vancouver is no worse and is still a playoff team without Bertuzzi. Calgary is very good. Colorado will spend their way in every year. Minnesota has only improved themselves. And where are we? Getting worse. Not happy times ahead for Oil fans.

We can't afford to pay a talented player 3M bucks. That's sad. Seriously sad. They forked over how much to Comrie, just to trade him away? The Oilers are starting to look like a badly managed team. Compare our team to Calgary and compare Lowe to Sutter (and in part Button) and it's not even close. Calgary made the commitment to build around Lydman, Regehr, Leopold, and Iginla. They've turned over a lot of their roster and it's worked. You have to be willing to suffer some lean years to get to where you want to be.

How can we have a better record than these teams with the roster we have. Let's remember that we needed an unbelievable six weeks just to make things interesting at the end of last season:
Colorado
Detroit
Vancouver
Calgary
Dallas
St.Louis
Phoenix
San Jose
Nashville

These clubs would have to falter a lot to get passed by our team. Toss LA into the mix, and Minnesota, and we're a very average team, with a relatively bloated payroll.

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08-27-2004, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
If Brewer is the main component of a trade, then atleast we know we will be getting quality in return. I think that if more chips are added, Lecavalier could be pried from Tampa Bay, but if not then some of the other names mentioned above would work. Id love to see Marleau here, but I dont think Brewer would be too much of an upgrade to their stellar, young and cheap defensive corps in San Jose.
Lecavalier!!!!!!!!!! I want what you're having if you think there's a snowballs chance in hell of getting one of the best players from a team that just won the cup. It's time to face the facts, we'll end up with a softie (or god forbid a DOPITA) or we'll get some unproven kid like Weiss. Let's start scheduling the parade route. The only saving grace is that there will be no NHL this year. Our kids have a chance to get a year older.

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08-27-2004, 04:53 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Well if Brewer is tradebait, who are some of the guys Oilers may be targeting.

IMO:
Jokkinen - Brewer for him straight up, any additions by Oil is overpayment
Legwand - IMO Nashville would have to add, as Legwand has yet to breakout
Datsyuk - Oil may have to add for this one
Marleau - Oilers would be adding
Gagne - 1 for 1 swap (according to hockeydb.com he is a center, I always though he was a winger)
Handzus - Philly adds
Petr Sykora - additions on both sides probably

Feel free to add or take away from the list

I absolutely love how Brewer's game gets trashed when he's in contract negotiations, but when being used as trade bait all of a sudden he becomes a Norris candidate. First of all, most of those teams don't even NEED Brewer. Secondly, he is a #2 defenceman who would have to be packaged with a prospect or pick to get ANY player listed there.

The problem is, even though the Oilers do have some trade assets, they are always going to be trading from a position of weakness in going after a centre, because every GM in the league knows that they're not making the playoffs anytime soon with York and Horcoff as their top 2.

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08-27-2004, 05:00 PM
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get real buddy, all the talk out of Anaheim is they simply want to lose the salary. And if you think B.C. wouldn't jump on a Handzus-Brewer trade then you either A)under-rate Brewer (over-rate Handzus) or C)consider Bobby an idiot.

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08-27-2004, 05:02 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Well if Brewer is tradebait, who are some of the guys Oilers may be targeting.

IMO:
Jokkinen - Brewer for him straight up, any additions by Oil is overpayment
Legwand - IMO Nashville would have to add, as Legwand has yet to breakout
Datsyuk - Oil may have to add for this one
Marleau - Oilers would be adding
Gagne - 1 for 1 swap (according to hockeydb.com he is a center, I always though he was a winger)
Handzus - Philly adds
Petr Sykora - additions on both sides probably

Feel free to add or take away from the list



I absolutely love how Brewer's game gets trashed when he's in contract negotiations, but when being used as trade bait all of a sudden he becomes a Norris candidate. First of all, most of those teams don't even NEED Brewer. Secondly, he is a #2 defenceman who would have to be packaged with a prospect or pick to get ANY player listed there.
A Norris candidate? So in other words to get David Legwand you'd need to offer a Niedermayer, but with a lower salary.

Whether the teams listed need Brewer thats a different story, I was looking at who Brewer could get in a potential deal. Also if you eliminate those names who IS left?

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08-27-2004, 05:08 PM
  #17
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All I am saying is that IMO you are over-valuing Brewer. You could probably get Legwand for him, but the rest of those players are all-stars! GM's would just look at Brewers' numbers as an Oiler and laugh.

Lowe's best option is to identify a team that is deep at centre and trade for an undervalued player on the rise.

Wait a minute... I think that's just what Sutter did the other day...

I too would like to see Lowe take a stab at one of Florida's centres, but I think with that team building for something big, it's not likely.

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08-27-2004, 05:10 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Jokinen- Won't happen. Why would Florida do this when they have Krajicek and J-bo for the long haul and just signed two vets this summer. They also have Van Ryn.
Legwand- Overrated. Not a no.1 center. That said, Nashville probably wouldn't do it. Again, a team that doesn't need Brewer (Zidlicky, Timmonen, Hamhuis, Suter).
Datsyuk- Heartless. I wouldn't want him. Did you watch the playoffs?
Actually no I didn't, was in Europe, however we need someone to get us to the playoffs first, then worry about winning there
Marleau- Get serious. Maybe for Hemsky, Brewer and York...MAYBE!
For a career best 57 points, why don't you get serious
Gagne- see Marleau
45 points
Handzus- not a no.1 center. He's a great checker with good offense.
as is Langkow, yet according to some he would have been a great fit here
Sykora- Sure, we'll just add a 4M dollar winger.
Take away the salary of Brewer and add to that the fact that he can play center and you get a cheaper and younger #1C than Nedved would have bee.

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08-27-2004, 05:13 PM
  #19
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Gagne and Handzus are hardly all-stars. Another thing, if Langkow was good enough why wouldn't Handzus be? Same type of a player, yet Handzus is a bigger version.

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08-27-2004, 05:19 PM
  #20
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Clearly this team is worse than it was last year at this time – not better – and our opposition has improved substantially. There were very few legit options for us at center this season – and Lowe managed to lose both of them (Langkow and Nedved) to conference opponents because he does not like paying 3 million for a decent player. Good job Kevin – your plan seems to be working.

I frankly think that Lowe thought he could lowball Nedved - and when Gretz came to him about signing Nedved and trading Langkow to Edmonton – he choked. Yes he would have taken some heat for using assets to acquire Langkow instead of just signing Nedved – but Edmonton was Nedved’s last resort anyway and he shouldn’t have been Plan A. So Gretz chose to sign Nedved and trade with Calgary who was in EXACTLY the same position as us. Beautiful - just friggin beautiful.

I’m with the folks who want to re-build now since we have little hope for near-term competitiveness. Brewer, Smyth and Staios should all be on the blocks because of their age and contracts (that’s over $8 million right there). I probably keep Smith and sign him long-term because he’s the captain and will not make much more than he’s getting now – and we need someone to teach the kids. York, Dvorak, Izzy and Moreau are also keepers for now even though they are not in the long-term plan because they’re not that expensive. Let’s go with Torres, Hemsky, Rita, Woywitka, Lynch, Stoll and maybe even Schemp or Pouliot. Too bad we didn’t sign Mikhnov this summer (another great move).

So that’s what I’d do – package up Brewer and Smyth to get us a young center. Hell I would make a play for Thorton (he makes less than Ignila and not much more than Smyth and Brew combined so let’s not cry poor). Smyth and Brewer could be key pieces going the other way. If not Thorton – then a young guy like Carter. Anything is better than the BS that has been going on here for the last 3 years. But I doubt it – Lowe is content to over-pay his mediocre “good soldiers” like Brew and Staios while shunning any real talent. It was supposed to be all about “let’s get to 2004” – well we are here and nothing has changed. This is not about dollars – this is about strategy and using your resources as intelligently as possible – and Lowe has proven to be very deficient in this area.

I supported Lowe for years - but eventually you have to admit it - he is a poor GM without any real ability to plan, strategize or negotiate.


Last edited by Asiaoil: 08-27-2004 at 05:22 PM.
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08-27-2004, 05:27 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerbianEagle
Well if Brewer is tradebait, who are some of the guys Oilers may be targeting.

IMO:
Jokkinen - Brewer for him straight up, any additions by Oil is overpayment
Legwand - IMO Nashville would have to add, as Legwand has yet to breakout
Datsyuk - Oil may have to add for this one
Marleau - Oilers would be adding
Gagne - 1 for 1 swap (according to hockeydb.com he is a center, I always though he was a winger)
Handzus - Philly adds
Petr Sykora - additions on both sides probably

Feel free to add or take away from the list
Jokinen and Legwand would be my first choices considering they could probably be had for Brewer. But only if Legwand was playing for any team but Nashville. IMO, there's no way Nashville sends us their best center and best 2-way forward (I guess the same could be said about us sending our best defenceman to the Preds).

I wouldn't mind Handzus, but Brewer seems like a little much to be sending if he's the best asset we get back. It seems to me that Clarke's main interest in prospects isn't what role they may play on his team in ___years, but what immediate help they can bring back in a trade. For this reason, I'd rather go for Carter.

Marleau I doubt could be had for just about anything we offered.

Datsyuk is a good player but I wouldn't trade Brewer for him. I'm not exactly sure what it is about him either.

Sykora and Gagne are better suited for the wing, and only Gagne have I ever heard as playing center in the past. Not to say that Sykora couldn't play it, just that I didn't know it. Besides, he's overpriced and not worth Brewer at half the salary.

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08-27-2004, 05:29 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Clearly this team is worse than it was last year at this time – not better – and our opposition has improved substantially.
If anything this team is exactly the same, and IMO better because we got rid of Salo.

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08-27-2004, 07:00 PM
  #23
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I've said it before to you guys, I'll say it again...

...NO LEGWAND FOR YOU!

Defensemen are the least of our needs, right now. We're currently in the market for a number 2 center..so dealing our number 1...to a team that could be competition for the playoffs...wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. That said, Legwand should probably be scratched off the list.

Oh, and take Jokinen off, as well.

We're going to get him

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08-27-2004, 10:30 PM
  #24
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Asiaoil, if you mean the Oilers are worse than they were at this time last year because they still had Comrie (officially), then you're right, although there's some of that 'addition by subtraction' from losing Salo.

However, if Lowe turned down the Coyotes' offer for Langkow, I'm inclined to think we probably would have agreed that the asking price was too high. Supposedly it was more (or worth more to the Oilers) than Gauthier/Saprykin, and at some point it makes more sense NOT to do the deal.

I also think we need to give Lowe more time to implement "Plan B" to see what he has in mind. There's PLENTY of time until the season starts (!!) so it's not like we HAVE to have the #1 Center thing to be resolved today or tomorrow.

Nedved looked to be a good fit, but it was also apparent (in hindsight) that he wasn't that interested in staying here for any length of time. In any case, I (personally) didn't want Nedved here on a guaranteed 3-year deal, as I'm still concerned about his past history of uninspired play. I guess we'll see how Nedved does for Phoenix when play finally resumes, but I won't be too surprised if his play isn't all that great there. Just the same as if he had signed with Edmonton...I would have been holding my breath that he could sustain that same 16-game level of play he had here last year.

Bart

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08-27-2004, 10:37 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
However, if Lowe turned down the Coyotes' offer for Langkow, I'm inclined to think we probably would have agreed that the asking price was too high. Supposedly it was more (or worth more to the Oilers) than Gauthier/Saprykin, and at some point it makes more sense NOT to do the deal.
I'm gonna predict that it was Smith and one of (Torres or Stoll or Hemsky). Would you have done that trade if you were Lowe? I know I wouldn't have.

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