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Old
10-11-2011, 11:16 AM
  #51
RobertKron
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
put Shawn Thornton on the team, I bet he becomes a fan favourite in 2 months. A fighter that can play hockey, that would be a huge plus on this team.
How many of those are there in the league? Guys that are actually decent players, and have enough crazy in them to be an effective enforcer rather than just a guy that fights?

Two? Five?

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:17 AM
  #52
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I love how a thread about Marco Sturm, who after 2 games has been tried convicted and sentenced by a strong majority of the fans/posters here as a flop, has turned into the Armchair GM thread.

For the record, Give Sturm 20 games with Kesler before I pass any judgement. It seems no one like the signing, and because of this, they are projecting it onto his 2 games played.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:20 AM
  #53
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i would argue that having a goon might make teams MORE likely to hit your stars.

They'll know there's a goon in the lineup who will willingly take a penalty to 'protect' his star player.

Hit star player -> wait for retaliation -> score on ensuing powerplay -> rinse and repeat

I'm happy the Canucks are taking the high road on this. The type of goonery some of you are calling for is what cost the Sharks a playoff game. I remember laughing at how pathetic Eager and the Sharks looked.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:26 AM
  #54
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I'm happy the Canucks are taking the high road on this. The type of goonery some of you are calling for is what cost the Sharks a playoff game. I remember laughing at how pathetic Eager and the Sharks looked.
Eager was sending a message! "If you hit our stars, I'll run around like a MANIAC, beaking off, throwing cheap hits, and piling up penalty minutes like Kyle Wellwood piling up mashed potatoes at a buffet."

This, apparently, is the kind of message the Canucks need to be sending. After all, it's not about winning games. It's about SENDING MESSAGES.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:32 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
Eager was sending a message! "If you hit our stars, I'll run around like a MANIAC, beaking off, throwing cheap hits, and piling up penalty minutes like Kyle Wellwood piling up mashed potatoes at a buffet."

This, apparently, is the kind of message the Canucks need to be sending. After all, it's not about winning games. It's about SENDING MESSAGES.
Bingo. So sick of the level of stupidity on this site about 'sending messages'.

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Old
10-11-2011, 11:42 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
Eager was sending a message! "If you hit our stars, I'll run around like a MANIAC, beaking off, throwing cheap hits, and piling up penalty minutes like Kyle Wellwood piling up mashed potatoes at a buffet."

This, apparently, is the kind of message the Canucks need to be sending. After all, it's not about winning games. It's about SENDING MESSAGES.
I do agree about your toughness msg actually... it seems the NHL is only tough when it suits their needs.

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Old
10-11-2011, 12:32 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
I love how a thread about Marco Sturm, who after 2 games has been tried convicted and sentenced by a strong majority of the fans/posters here as a flop, has turned into the Armchair GM thread.

For the record, Give Sturm 20 games with Kesler before I pass any judgement. It seems no one like the signing, and because of this, they are projecting it onto his 2 games played.
At least bury him in the bottom six, let him earn his way up, and re-evaluate when Kesler gets back. It's not about projecting him as a bust, it's that he's screwing up the second line right now.

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Old
10-11-2011, 12:41 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
At least bury him in the bottom six, let him earn his way up, and re-evaluate when Kesler gets back. It's not about projecting him as a bust, it's that he's screwing up the second line right now.
But who do you slot in that roster spot?
Higgins clicks with Manny n Hanny, Volpatti? Wiese?

Should we just waive him n send a great message to any other free agent we might wanna sign?

The whole second line is at stand still basically. Cody is just finding his game at this level, Samuelsson has been injured for the better part of 2011 and is old. Sturm spent most of the summer rehabbing.
Least Sturm has more 20 goal seasons under his belt so far.

They look terrible now, but maybe terrible now is better than terrible in the playoffs.

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Old
10-11-2011, 01:15 PM
  #59
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But who do you slot in that roster spot?
Higgins clicks with Manny n Hanny, Volpatti? Wiese?

Should we just waive him n send a great message to any other free agent we might wanna sign?

The whole second line is at stand still basically. Cody is just finding his game at this level, Samuelsson has been injured for the better part of 2011 and is old. Sturm spent most of the summer rehabbing.
Least Sturm has more 20 goal seasons under his belt so far.

They look terrible now, but maybe terrible now is better than terrible in the playoffs.
No it's not. There are plenty of options, and in order to get that second line clicking, slightly weakening the bottom lines is not that big of a deal, IMO (hell, where are we even getting this idea that the 3rd line is this perfect set-in-stone don't disrupt the chemistry thing?? They've had two good but not great games solely on the effort of Higgins and Hansen!) How can you give a guy who's probably been close to our 12th best forward a free pass on the second line just to work things out?? He needs to get his game together on the bottom lines before moving his way up again and "being not terrible for the playoffs". While it's not a great example it's what we did with Wellwood and he looked great in the playoffs.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Hodgson - Samuelsson
Sturm - Malhotra - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapierre - Weise

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Hodgson - Samuelsson
Lapierre - Malhotra - Hansen
Sturm - Ebbett - Weise
<-- I personally like this lineup-- The fourth line can play sheltered minutes until Kesler gets back.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Hodgson - Samuelsson
Sturm - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti - Malhotra - Weise

Sedin - Sedin - Samuelsson
Higgins - Hodgson - Burrows
Sturm - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti - Malhotra - Weise

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Hodgson - Hansen
Lapierre - Malhotra - Samuelsson
Sturm - Ebbett - Weise

Hell, even just these are worth trying:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Ebbett/Lapierre - Hodgson - Samuelsson
Higgins - Malhotra - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapierre/Ebbett - Weise

Take your pick! Sure you sacrifice a bit for each scenario, but I think a non-existent second line is a more pressing concern than a poor 4th line.

We're not looking for long-term solutions here, just things that will temporarily strengthen our team until Kesler gets back-- if that means loading up three lines, so be it.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 10-11-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Old
10-11-2011, 01:33 PM
  #60
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No it's not. There are plenty of options, and in order to get that second line clicking, slightly weakening the bottom lines is not that big of a deal, IMO (hell, where are we even getting this idea that the 3rd line is this perfect set-in-stone don't disrupt the chemistry thing?? They've had two good but not great games solely on the effort of Higgins and Hansen!) How can you give a guy who's probably been close to our 12th best forward a free pass on the second line just to work things out?? He needs to get his game together on the bottom lines before moving his way up again and "being not terrible for the playoffs".
AV likes to use the Malhotra unit as a checking unit, and the 4th line as a rambunctious/hitting/energy line. Sturm is not a natural fit on either. It's not a simple "2nd line is a reward, 3rd line is a demotion" formula.

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Old
10-11-2011, 01:33 PM
  #61
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The only thing I hate about it (though other fans are mostly right) is that every time I go on another teams board to talk hockey is that it's always 'Here's another Canucks fan...lol'.

That sucks.
But there almost always is another Canuck fan being annoying and stupid in the thread! Even if it isn't you and you're just guilty by association, one of the other guys defending it is bound to overcompensate and be annoying as ****. It's totally reasonable to complain about Canuck fans, IMO.


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Old
10-11-2011, 01:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
AV likes to use the Malhotra unit as a checking unit, and the 4th line as a rambunctious/hitting/energy line. Sturm is not a natural fit on either. It's not a simple "2nd line is a reward, 3rd line is a demotion" formula.
I would say the second and third lines are usually on an even playing field with different roles, but the 4th line is certainly a demotion.

I know it's great to have a 4th line who can keep up and play a rambunctious/hitting/energy game, but that's more of a luxury that we can't afford with the second line creating/doing nothing. I hope AV isn't that stubborn, that he'd rather have a decent physical 4th line than a decent scoring support 2nd line.

At this point, Sturm is more useful to us as a checker (he actually hasn't been bad defensively).

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Old
10-11-2011, 01:53 PM
  #63
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We have no toughness at all. Zero, none, it doesn't exist. This is the softest team I have ever seen in hockey. Maybe we will be fine or maybe our best players will have targets on them all season who knows. If I were playing the Canucks I would run the Sedins every chance I got. I would push them around after whistles I would mock their bench I would laugh in their faces because they don't have anyone to stand up and push back.

And a big problem is the lack of respect the Sedins get from the refs. They are pretty much fair game unlike other stars and Burrows has such a bad rep that players can crosscheck and punch him all they want. Our top line is going to be mugged bad this year.

It's up to Bieksa(who we need on the ice badly) and Volpatti(one lucky punch on the worst fighter in the NHL) to protect the rest of these softies.
This post is spot on. Right now we have Weise and Volpatti on the 4th line but what happens when Raymond and Kesler get back from their injuries? The threads with the "ultimate lineups" for when are injured players get back have a pathetic lack of toughness. Other than the 4th liners who will most likely be back in the minors or scratches in a month we have only 4 or 5 players who are even willing to fight with Bieksa being the only guy who's any good at it. There are multiple players on the team with 0 career fights which basically means that theres no chance of them stepping up to protect any of their teammates.

This whole get them back on the power play routine can only work for so long. It worked last year until the finals when are lack of team toughness was exposed on national telecasts for 7 games. The Canucks are going to win a lot of games this season and teams who are loosing 5-2 in the third period to us know that if they take runs at our top players and cheap shot them after the whistles their is no one on this team that will stand up to them, the worst case scenario is that they will get a penalty but the score is out of reach so who really cares. We had a chance to send a message in the second game of the season when our captain was hit from behind. This was a perfect situation to send a message and we blew it. Methot isn't some tough goon, we have guys who can beat him in a fight but we chose not to take the instigator. Were going to see the Canucks get pushed around even more than last season until they decide to start sticking up for themselves.

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Old
10-11-2011, 01:58 PM
  #64
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I have something:

Who the **** dropped the ball on this Byron Bitz signing? Gillis, the medical staff, the scouts? I mean, we are allowing this guy to take up a contract slot (and paying him a comfortable salary, probably covering his medical procedures) while utilizing terrible players like Volpatti due to a lack of organizational depth...in the exact position Bitz is supposed to occupy. Who the heck was in charge of this one?

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10-11-2011, 02:00 PM
  #65
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I don't mind icing a talented fourth line instead of one with goons on it if it means we can skate circles around them and score 4 goals a game. It seemed to work pretty well last year up until half our team got injured, and we didn't even have that great of a fourth line last year. Holy overreactions Batman.

Raymond-Lapierre-Pinizzotto

Boom

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Old
10-11-2011, 02:02 PM
  #66
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I don't mind icing a talented fourth line instead of one with goons on it if it means we can skate circles around them and score 4 goals a game. It seemed to work pretty well last year up until half our team got injured, and we didn't even have that great of a fourth line last year. Holy overreactions Batman.

Raymond-Lapierre-Pinizzotto

Boom
If May Ray comes back in any kind of shape whatsoever the odds are he's landing on that 2nd line. Sturm and Samuelsson aren't exactly lighting the world on fire when it comes to stealing his job.

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10-11-2011, 02:55 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Sullivangran View Post
I don't mind icing a talented fourth line instead of one with goons on it if it means we can skate circles around them and score 4 goals a game. It seemed to work pretty well last year up until half our team got injured, and we didn't even have that great of a fourth line last year. Holy overreactions Batman.

Raymond-Lapierre-Pinizzotto

Boom
I am in favor of this when Kesler returns.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Sturm - Kesler - Samuelsson
Higgins - Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Hodgson - Lapierre

This would be a line up where you can go up and down the lines from 2nd to fourth based on effort.

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Old
10-11-2011, 03:06 PM
  #68
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This post is spot on. Right now we have Weise and Volpatti on the 4th line but what happens when Raymond and Kesler get back from their injuries? The threads with the "ultimate lineups" for when are injured players get back have a pathetic lack of toughness. Other than the 4th liners who will most likely be back in the minors or scratches in a month we have only 4 or 5 players who are even willing to fight with Bieksa being the only guy who's any good at it. There are multiple players on the team with 0 career fights which basically means that theres no chance of them stepping up to protect any of their teammates.

This whole get them back on the power play routine can only work for so long. It worked last year until the finals when are lack of team toughness was exposed on national telecasts for 7 games. The Canucks are going to win a lot of games this season and teams who are loosing 5-2 in the third period to us know that if they take runs at our top players and cheap shot them after the whistles their is no one on this team that will stand up to them, the worst case scenario is that they will get a penalty but the score is out of reach so who really cares. We had a chance to send a message in the second game of the season when our captain was hit from behind. This was a perfect situation to send a message and we blew it. Methot isn't some tough goon, we have guys who can beat him in a fight but we chose not to take the instigator. Were going to see the Canucks get pushed around even more than last season until they decide to start sticking up for themselves.
This is it, right here.

No matter how many fourth liners you pick up that can drop the gloves, it's each guy that has to step up for themselves.

I'll take a fourth line that can run circles around guys that hit each other and goon it up and can score and who we already have in our line-up.

****. Glass' hands of stone alone, last year caused us at least 3 goals in the play-offs. He has some gimmes he shanked on.

****. This year, hitting is becoming illegally anyway.

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Old
10-11-2011, 03:49 PM
  #69
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This year, hitting is becoming illegally anyway.
Things are always becoming illegally. It's not reason to not being enjoy hockey.

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Old
10-11-2011, 04:10 PM
  #70
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Things are always becoming illegally. It's not reason to not being enjoy hockey.
Right, you our!

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Old
10-11-2011, 04:58 PM
  #71
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How many of those are there in the league? Guys that are actually decent players, and have enough crazy in them to be an effective enforcer rather than just a guy that fights?

Two? Five?
Exactly. That's why we got hop on one when they become available.

Guys like

Dan Carcillo
Mike Rupp
Arron Asham
Shawn Thornton

are seldom on the market, we could've had Rupp and Carcillo this year (IIRC, Gillis did go after Rupp) and Asham (who Gillis also went after the year before).

I'm glad that Gillis is trying, because this is the kind of guy we need.

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Old
10-11-2011, 05:01 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
I am in favor of this when Kesler returns.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Sturm - Kesler - Samuelsson
Higgins - Malhotra - Hansen
Raymond - Hodgson - Lapierre

This would be a line up where you can go up and down the lines from 2nd to fourth based on effort.
The only problem with is AV has shown in the past, he never rolls 4 complete lines, just the top 3 a bunch and the 4th line the occasional shift once or twice a period. It doesn't matter whose on it, he'll give them max 6 minutes a night.

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10-11-2011, 05:06 PM
  #73
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The only problem with is AV has shown in the past, he never rolls 4 complete lines, just the top 3 a bunch and the 4th line the occasional shift once or twice a period. It doesn't matter whose on it, he'll give them max 6 minutes a night.
There aren't a lot of minutes to go around when you have to get the Sedins their minutes, Kesler his minutes, and you have a competent third line that has one of the best faceoff men in the league on it.

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10-11-2011, 05:10 PM
  #74
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There aren't a lot of minutes to go around when you have to get the Sedins their minutes, Kesler his minutes, and you have a competent third line that has one of the best faceoff men in the league on it.
True enough, but I feel like the forwards would be more efficient (especially come playoffs, so they don't gas out like they did in the SCF) if we did roll 4 lines. Not that I'm saying all lines should get equal playing time throughout the season, but during a tough stretch of the season where you play 5 games in 9 nights or something ridiculous like that, it would be to the benefit of the team if you did do that.

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10-11-2011, 05:51 PM
  #75
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Quote:
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The only problem with is AV has shown in the past, he never rolls 4 complete lines, just the top 3 a bunch and the 4th line the occasional shift once or twice a period. It doesn't matter whose on it, he'll give them max 6 minutes a night.
And Hodgson has been competent at least so far. He has a great future (If there are no rifts ) so there is no way he should be buried on the 4th line.

How about

SSB
Raymond Kesler Samuelsson
Higgins Hodgson Hansen
Sturm Maholtra Lapierre

with Maholtra filling in at center on important faceoffs for lines 2 and 3

You rotate Raymond Samuelsson Sturm out with whoevers playing the poorest each night ...

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