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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

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Old
09-04-2004, 10:06 PM
  #176
garry1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
first off .. why does each season have to start with every team having an equal opportunity to make the playoffs. for starters, 14 teams will not make hte playoffs. for seconds, some teams are in a rebuilding phase and finally others just dont deserve to be in the playoffs due to their poor managing.

secondly, it is as simple as not paying more than you can afford. if the Canucks dont want to pay the Sedins, what choice do the Sedins have ? play in Sweden ? ok, see ya. VAN took a stand with Schaefer and didnt pay him more than they wanted too and they can do it with the Sedins too.

its simple if you have balls. its simple if you dont give a rats ass what other teams do and only worry about managing your team. if hte player has leverage (arbitration or pending UFA) then so be it. make a business decision and walk away from the player. it wont hurt you to replace a guy who can command 4m with a young guy who makes 900k. really it wont.

dr
it won't hurt??? really?? well when the player who's commanding 4 mil is one of the better talent on your team, or at least is an up and cmoing talent then i'd say it would considering that on the ufa market if a player's only looking at 900k he must not be that great, thus hurting the team's chances of getting very far

if you have the balls you do your best to keep the player that can help your team the most, and as i, and many others have mentioned, that often times involves more than one team vieing for the player, which increases what you have to offer to try your best to keep him on your team, THIS is how salaries have escalated so rapidly, THIS is how players end up overpaid thanks to one good season, THIS is where the majority of the problems occur

you might be fine saying see ya to the sedins...but there's many owners and gm's out there who wouldn't be so happy having to do that to their younger players especially

by what you're saying there should be 14 teams every year that can spend as much as they can to ice the next best things to allstar teams, just because only 14 teams will make the playoffs... should we forget about the other 16 teams just because they may be in a rebuilding process?... does a rebuilding team have the same shot as any other team in the league? ... i should hope they do, just because a team is in a rebuilding mode doesn't mean that they can't compete for the cup like the big spenders do... the teams that don't deserve to be in the playoffs, i'd be interested in who you think those are and why.

EVERY TEAM deserves to have a shot at making the playoffs, they deserve the best shot they can manage, it's one thing if they try and don't succeed, it's another to say nope, you suck so don't even bother, hell, why should those teams that don't deserve to be in the playoffs even be in the league... kick em out, tell em to make their own damn league and find their own damn trophy

edit: end sarcasm

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Old
09-04-2004, 11:58 PM
  #177
Paul Martin Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
it won't hurt??? really?? well when the player who's commanding 4 mil is one of the better talent on your team, or at least is an up and cmoing talent then i'd say it would considering that on the ufa market if a player's only looking at 900k he must not be that great, thus hurting the team's chances of getting very far

if you have the balls you do your best to keep the player that can help your team the most, and as i, and many others have mentioned, that often times involves more than one team vieing for the player, which increases what you have to offer to try your best to keep him on your team, THIS is how salaries have escalated so rapidly, THIS is how players end up overpaid thanks to one good season, THIS is where the majority of the problems occur

you might be fine saying see ya to the sedins...but there's many owners and gm's out there who wouldn't be so happy having to do that to their younger players especially

by what you're saying there should be 14 teams every year that can spend as much as they can to ice the next best things to allstar teams, just because only 14 teams will make the playoffs... should we forget about the other 16 teams just because they may be in a rebuilding process?... does a rebuilding team have the same shot as any other team in the league? ... i should hope they do, just because a team is in a rebuilding mode doesn't mean that they can't compete for the cup like the big spenders do... the teams that don't deserve to be in the playoffs, i'd be interested in who you think those are and why.

EVERY TEAM deserves to have a shot at making the playoffs, they deserve the best shot they can manage, it's one thing if they try and don't succeed, it's another to say nope, you suck so don't even bother, hell, why should those teams that don't deserve to be in the playoffs even be in the league... kick em out, tell em to make their own damn league and find their own damn trophy

edit: end sarcasm
i wish i knew how to quote properly, so bear with me.

1) if your best player is only making 4m and you cant afford to sign him, then there is a bigger problem for your team than the CBA.

2) the evidence shows that small markets and rebuilding teams have had more success than any of hte big markets. the game is played on the ice, not on paper and just because TOR, PHI, and NYR have spent alot, they have not done better than ANA, MIN, OTT, CRL, BUF, CGY or TBY in the last 5 years.

seriously, the fact that there has been multiple different teams in the final 4 in the last number of years isnt evidence of competitive balance ?

dr

edit: i never said signing a UFA for 900k, how about just promoting a guy from your organization ? you know, like the big spenders do ? COL over the years let a bunch of guys go and promoted guys like Drury, Hejduk, Svatos, Skoula, Aebisher etc ... COL lost the best goalie of his generation and didnt go out and replace him with a high priced UFA, they replaced him with a player in the organization.

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Old
09-05-2004, 12:24 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
yes, if VAN decided they did not want to pay Bertuzzi, Naslund, Jovo or whoever, I wouldnt cry one bit.

the fact is, a young star has no leverage, so why give in unless you CHOOSE TO for your own good reasons. the Canucks are not caving into the Sedins demand for an extra few hundred thousand and I support that 100%. you cant have it both ways. if the teams are crying poor, then DONT OFFER THE CONTRACTS YOU CANT AFFORD !!!

dr
If teams don't offer contracts they won't be competitive!! Even if they build through the draft, they won't be able to keep the stars they developed. This has already been answered!

A young star does have leverage, just like Yashin had. Ottawa hurt tremendously because of that holdout. They may have won the cup by now if they had been able to pay Yashin what he wanted.

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Old
09-05-2004, 12:30 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licentia
If teams don't offer contracts they won't be competitive!! Even if they build through the draft, they won't be able to keep the stars they developed. This has already been answered!

A young star does have leverage, just like Yashin had. Ottawa hurt tremendously because of that holdout. They may have won the cup by now if they had been able to pay Yashin what he wanted.
lol ... poor OTT, they only traded Yashin for Spezza AND Chara and those theives in NYI are stuck with Yashin at 9m per season.

how did OTT lose on that ? my goodness man.

dr

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Old
09-05-2004, 12:32 AM
  #180
Paul Martin Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licentia
If teams don't offer contracts they won't be competitive!! Even if they build through the draft, they won't be able to keep the stars they developed. This has already been answered!

.
clearly if teams cant afford to offer contracts they shouldnt be in the NHL. however at some point, you have to make decisions that a players value on the market doesnt match his worth to your budget.

case in point .. OTT dealt Bonk for a draft pick because they didnt want to pay him 3.5m per season. Good for them, but why should we feel sorry for them ?

dr

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Old
09-05-2004, 12:41 AM
  #181
Licentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
2) the evidence shows that small markets and rebuilding teams have had more success than any of hte big markets. the game is played on the ice, not on paper and just because TOR, PHI, and NYR have spent alot, they have not done better than ANA, MIN, OTT, CRL, BUF, CGY or TBY in the last 5 years.

seriously, the fact that there has been multiple different teams in the final 4 in the last number of years isnt evidence of competitive balance ?

dr
Good Grief!!!

Ottawa has an owner who is bleeding green. They were bankrupt for a while. So was Buffalo. Anaheim made the final and died the next year, Minnesota is not a small market, Carolina made the final and died the next year, Calgary will probably not make the playoffs based on trends with Carolina, Washington, Florida, Anaheim, Buffalo etc. The cinderella teams never stay on top.

Teams like Detroit, Philladelphia, Toronto, have been on top of the league for a long time.

Competitive balance is year in year out. Not a cinderella run to the cup final only to lose - and then miss the playoffs the next year. That's what happens every year with these cinderella runs to the final.

These arguments have been answered already.

There is no way on this planet or any other that a team like Edmonton would be able to do as well as a team like Detroit over the next 20 years. If both teams had exactly the same players, Detroit would have had a more successful 20 years than Edmonton. End of story!!

Not paying players is as silly as telling a gas station to not pay a person to pump gas because they can't afford it. If no one pumps gas they will have no customers at all. If these teams don't sign players to keep themselves half-a$$ed competitive then the fans will leave and the team will fold.


Last edited by Licentia: 09-05-2004 at 12:44 AM.
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Old
09-05-2004, 12:53 AM
  #182
Paul Martin Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licentia
These arguments have been answered already.

.
well, sorry if i dont take your word on the issue. just because you say so, doesnt make it so.

dr

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Old
09-11-2004, 08:06 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
i wish i knew how to quote properly, so bear with me.

1) if your best player is only making 4m and you cant afford to sign him, then there is a bigger problem for your team than the CBA.

2) the evidence shows that small markets and rebuilding teams have had more success than any of hte big markets. the game is played on the ice, not on paper and just because TOR, PHI, and NYR have spent alot, they have not done better than ANA, MIN, OTT, CRL, BUF, CGY or TBY in the last 5 years.

seriously, the fact that there has been multiple different teams in the final 4 in the last number of years isnt evidence of competitive balance ?

dr

edit: i never said signing a UFA for 900k, how about just promoting a guy from your organization ? you know, like the big spenders do ? COL over the years let a bunch of guys go and promoted guys like Drury, Hejduk, Svatos, Skoula, Aebisher etc ... COL lost the best goalie of his generation and didnt go out and replace him with a high priced UFA, they replaced him with a player in the organization.

I think that Ottawa and the teams who have built throught the draft and have been smarter with their money will soon be faced with...how are they going to keep this great team they built together? Do you see a point to what Ottawa has done, if they decide that Hossa, Alfredsson, Redden, Chara, Havlat, and Spezza are asking for too much money? They build and build, but when it comes time to make a serious run...they decide not to, because they can't afford it. I think that teams such as this need to understand that spending is a necessity in todays game if you want to remain competitive. Colorado has done a great job of using their draft picks and plugging holes of guys who are older and on the decline. But you really can't forget that they have spent a BOAT LOAD of cash on their players. On top of that they recongized that you can't win with what you've got in your system alone. So they go out year after year and like Detroit plug holes at the deadline. Blake, Bourque, Gratton, and Konowalchuk, not to mention UFA like Kariya, and Selanne. Even when Roy retired, they decided to go with Aebischer because they knew the team would make the playoffs. They had planned on trading for a more experienced playoff keeper come the deadline, but since the rest of the league knew they were over a barrel, they were asking for too much in return. So what do the Avs do? They cheap out! They go with Aebischer and the washed up Salo, and guess what? They get bounced. So here you have an a great team, with Sakic and Foote getting older, Forsberg set to jump ship back to Sweden, and Tanguay and Hejduk expecting more money. It is a formula that suggests if you are not willing to spend money you can win, but the chances are slim and if you do win, the chances of repeating are astronomical. I don't mean spending money for the sake of spendind ala Rangers, but building towards something and shelling out to keep it together, to see it your vision through to the end. Something most teams can't do, or are not willing.

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