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Rangers are 4th youngest in the NHL; 2nd among skaters

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Old
10-11-2011, 10:27 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Basement Cat View Post
In that sense, I take no issue with the argument. The fact is, Marty is still a more than serviceable goaltender and until he shows significant decline, I am not ready to declare him done and annoint unproven guys like Schneider as superior goalies.
IMO he has shown significant decline.

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10-11-2011, 10:38 PM
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IMO he has shown significant decline.
Since his prime? Sure.

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Old
10-11-2011, 10:42 PM
  #28
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Oh, cool, a Martin Brodeur thread.

On topic, I'm surprised we're that young. Maybe surprise isn't the word, as I knew we were super green, just unaware of our standing relative to the league I guess.

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10-11-2011, 10:46 PM
  #29
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Losing Prospal and Drury really dropped things considerably.

I think this is as young as we will get.

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10-11-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Oh, cool, a Martin Brodeur thread.

On topic, I'm surprised we're that young. Maybe surprise isn't the word, as I knew we were super green, just unaware of our standing relative to the league I guess.
Thought the forwards' average would be a bit 'older', personally, but I suppose taking away two <35 players from the roster brings down the overall age, even though Richards/Rupp were added at 31.

In regards to the age status, it's both a positive factor and a negative factor in this team's success; on one hand, the roster could potentially stay intact for several years, but, on the other hand, the team's most important players in Gaborik, Richards, and Lundqvist are nearing the decline of their prime; they're still star players right now, but in 3-4 years, will they still be a tier above the rest? Possibly, I could definitely see Lundqvist still being a dominant presence, but it's a legitimate concern for the organization. Also, while they may be talented, talent can only get you so far. It's only half the battle. Experience is a key factor in winning championships, and while I believe that the team is fine up front in regards to experience, I'm worried about the defense. Girardi is the oldest at 27, and the farthest he's ever been in the playoffs is the 2nd round.

Look at legitimate cup contenders in this league; Boston, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, San Jose, Tampa Bay, etc. Look at their defense; on each team, there is at least one veteran defenseman who is both a major contributor to the squad and experienced. Players like Eric Brewer, Sami Salo, Andrew Ference, Brooks Orpik, Colin White, etc. I just put the "easy to acquire" types as an example; in addition to these players, there are others like D. Boyle, Matthias Ohlund, Zdeno Chara, Sergei Gonchar (from when Pittsburgh won in '09; could say Letang, now), Willie Mitchell, Rob Scuderi. Where is the Rangers' veteran defensive leader? Sure, some may say they are 'easy' to acquire, but adding an experienced 20+ minute defenseman is more costly than one may think, IMO, and this team will go nowhere without one.

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10-11-2011, 11:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The Rangers are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. Excluding goalies (who last longer than forwards because they don't get hit), we are the second youngest team.

Our blueline is by far the youngest at 24.2 years old, a year and a half younger than the next team. Of the 30 teams, 26 have bluelines that are over 27 years old on average, so that's a 4 year gap.

Considering the plethora of kids still in the farm (Kreider, Fasth, Thomas, Miller, Bourque, Hagelin, Lindberg, McIlrath, etc), the future is looking very bright.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php
I still expect there will be posters who will want to blow it up and start over.

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Old
10-12-2011, 12:01 AM
  #32
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"omg Let The Kids Play!"

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10-12-2011, 03:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Losing Prospal and Drury really dropped things considerably.

I think this is as young as we will get.

Unless we replace Biron with someone younger, which would drop us younger still.

If you replace Feds, 32, and Christ, 28 with Kreider and Bourque, both of whom will be 21, it will "cover" the one year increase in age the rest of the team will have (each player will be a year older in 12 months).

Then if Biron, 34 is replaced with someone who's in his mid to late 20s, our average age would be 1/3 of a year lower than it is now. We would then probably be the second youngest team in the league in 2012-13.

It's a realistic possibility.

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Old
10-12-2011, 04:17 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The Rangers are the 4th youngest team in the NHL. Excluding goalies (who last longer than forwards because they don't get hit), we are the second youngest team.

Our blueline is by far the youngest at 24.2 years old, a year and a half younger than the next team. Of the 30 teams, 26 have bluelines that are over 27 years old on average, so that's a 4 year gap.

Considering the plethora of kids still in the farm (Kreider, Fasth, Thomas, Miller, Bourque, Hagelin, Lindberg, McIlrath, etc), the future is looking very bright.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php
I agree with you on the state of the team, IE it looks good for sure.

But these days quality is more important with quantity. Fortunately we also have quality. But wheter we are 4th or 14th in that regard is another question...

Its not like it was when players became UFA's when they were like 35 y/o. You can any off-season fill up 3rd/4th lines and your blueline with pretty solid and cheap players -- if you are attractive on the UFA market. Just look at Pittsburg.

I like our youth. But I these days, and I think this could be a issue with this team and Slats, you still need to make sure that you ice a complete and competetive team that gives your quality kids a chance to establish themselves in this league.

I would definitely, for example, question Wojtek Wolski at 3.8m per over say a Steve Sullivan at 1.5m per.

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Old
10-12-2011, 08:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Basement Cat View Post
Uhm Brodeur is an above average goalie, better than Schneider.
Not even close. Schneider is a stud and Marty is old and in great decline. Do you watch hockey?

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10-12-2011, 10:24 AM
  #36
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I still think that without the young impact forward on the team or in the system, we still are riddled with 2nd and 3rd liners.

The Rangers NEED a top flight forward to come from within the system and we have been unable to draft one.

Future is bright, no question, but it could be/should be brighter

just sayin

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10-12-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I agree with you on the state of the team, IE it looks good for sure.

But these days quality is more important with quantity. Fortunately we also have quality. But wheter we are 4th or 14th in that regard is another question...

Its not like it was when players became UFA's when they were like 35 y/o. You can any off-season fill up 3rd/4th lines and your blueline with pretty solid and cheap players -- if you are attractive on the UFA market. Just look at Pittsburg.

I like our youth. But I these days, and I think this could be a issue with this team and Slats, you still need to make sure that you ice a complete and competetive team that gives your quality kids a chance to establish themselves in this league.

I would definitely, for example, question Wojtek Wolski at 3.8m per over say a Steve Sullivan at 1.5m per.
Healthy, I would prefer Sully as well, but that guy is an injury waiting to happen now.

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Old
10-12-2011, 10:43 AM
  #38
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.014 let me put it this way 14 out of 1000.........or 7 out of 500.

You know what that is?

That is the difference between the best goalie in the league and the 20th goalie league...

Giant pads, playing an unathletic style of geometry from their knees to perfection is the norm for NHL goalies and that is why there is not a balls hair of difference between 1 and 20 statistically in the NHL today.

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Old
10-12-2011, 11:25 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I still think that without the young impact forward on the team or in the system, we still are riddled with 2nd and 3rd liners.

The Rangers NEED a top flight forward to come from within the system and we have been unable to draft one.

Future is bright, no question, but it could be/should be brighter

just sayin
While I would not slot them as top flight, Dubi, Cally, Stepan and Artie are far from chopped liver. Artie and Stepan could still evolve into special players. In many ways Cally is pretty special right now. Any GM in the league would not hesitate for a second to have Dubi if the deal was right. As young cores go, that's pretty decent.

Now add Miller, Fasth and Kreider to the mix and things are bound to get better, maybe significantly so.

I'm not one to look back, but if not for the Cherepanov tragedy we would have someone pushing Gabby pretty hard right now.

One thing that can be said w/objectivity at this point is that come next fall the Rangers could have some difficult decisions to make.

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10-12-2011, 11:39 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
.014 let me put it this way 14 out of 1000.........or 7 out of 500.

You know what that is?

That is the difference between the best goalie in the league and the 20th goalie league...

Giant pads, playing an unathletic style of geometry from their knees to perfection is the norm for NHL goalies and that is why there is not a balls hair of difference between 1 and 20 statistically in the NHL today.
I'm not a mathematician but I believe that isn't how it works.

I think the difference between a .924 goaltender and a .910 goaltender is actually quite substantial in terms of goals allowed, if we could get someone to prove that I'd be on board. Its been done before and actually comes out, if I recall to something in the range of .3 goals a game if you allow around 27 shots.

For the record, if you've ever played goaltender you'll know that the butterfly is very difficult and requires a great amount of flexibility and athleticism.

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10-12-2011, 11:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Losing Prospal and Drury really dropped things considerably.

I think this is as young as we will get.
I believe we will get a little younger in the next couple years actually.

Fedotenko and Wolski wont be here and Kreider and Miller will step in. Kreider as early as next year.

And McIlrath has a chance to step in within the next couple years.

The injection of cheap and talented young players isn't going to stop.

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10-12-2011, 11:46 AM
  #42
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Lundqvist faces about 2000 shots in a normal year. If his save percentage is .924, he allows 152 goals. If his save percentage is .910, he allows 180 goals. So yeah, JimEIV's math is correct, but 1000 shots is not what a star goalie in the NHL will face (other than Thomas, maybe). 28 goals over the course of a year is BIG. Pretty silly to suggest there's no difference between goalies posting those two save numbers.

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10-12-2011, 11:53 AM
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We've seen over the past few years it's not that difficult to go out and acquire a goaltender. When they have to do that they will. I don't think that really matters. There's plenty of guys they could get, and most of them won't give up as many softies as Marty does. And that's not saying Marty isn't good any more, cause he is, and he can be great still at times. But his tendency over the past few years to allow soft goals at the worst times is rough.

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10-12-2011, 12:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I believe we will get a little younger in the next couple years actually.

Fedotenko and Wolski wont be here and Kreider and Miller will step in. Kreider as early as next year.

And McIlrath has a chance to step in within the next couple years.

The injection of cheap and talented young players isn't going to stop.
Feds, Christ and Wolski will get replaced with Kreider, and either Bourque or Hagelin. Someone like Mitchell would be 13F.

In a couple of years, McIlrath will replace Girardi.

Miller, Thomas, Fasth, Lindberg... at least a couple of them should join the NHL in 2-3 years, replacing the vets like Gaborik and Rupp.

The youth train should continue. My biggest concern/hope is that we find a right winger who can truly replace Gabby in 3 years as a consistent 30+ goal scorer. Maybe it will be Thomas, maybe Fasth, but no guarantees.

I really hope we draft an offense oriented RW next June.

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10-12-2011, 12:50 PM
  #45
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Guys, fans from other Atlantic teams are welcome to post here. Someone isn't trolling just because they have a Devils avatar. First and last warning.

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10-12-2011, 01:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Feds, Christ and Wolski will get replaced with Kreider, and either Bourque or Hagelin. Someone like Mitchell would be 13F.

In a couple of years, McIlrath will replace Girardi.

Miller, Thomas, Fasth, Lindberg... at least a couple of them should join the NHL in 2-3 years, replacing the vets like Gaborik and Rupp.

The youth train should continue. My biggest concern/hope is that we find a right winger who can truly replace Gabby in 3 years as a consistent 30+ goal scorer. Maybe it will be Thomas, maybe Fasth, but no guarantees.

I really hope we draft an offense oriented RW next June.
No body is replacing Girardi.

Guy gets too little recognition.

Hes shown he can log 30+ minutes against some of the top offensive lines in the league, and shut them down. While providing physicality, putting up 30 points, and being a league leader in hits and blocked shots.

Girardi is a horse. Easily one of the best contracts in the league for what he can provide.

I like McIlrath, but he's not replacing Girardi any time soon. And by any time soon, I mean 5+ years. Girardi is entering his prime.

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10-12-2011, 01:21 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
.014 let me put it this way 14 out of 1000.........or 7 out of 500.

You know what that is?

That is the difference between the best goalie in the league and the 20th goalie league...

Giant pads, playing an unathletic style of geometry from their knees to perfection is the norm for NHL goalies and that is why there is not a balls hair of difference between 1 and 20 statistically in the NHL today.
.014 is a huge difference when you are facing 1000's of shots. Could be the difference in 10+ games in a season, or 20+ points.

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10-12-2011, 01:41 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
No body is replacing Girardi.

Guy gets too little recognition.

Hes shown he can log 30+ minutes against some of the top offensive lines in the league, and shut them down. While providing physicality, putting up 30 points, and being a league leader in hits and blocked shots.

Girardi is a horse. Easily one of the best contracts in the league for what he can provide.

I like McIlrath, but he's not replacing Girardi any time soon. And by any time soon, I mean 5+ years. Girardi is entering his prime.


This depends on whether we sign Parise or Semin. If so, in 2 years we might need to clear some cap space. Replacing Girardi with McIlrath gives us $2 in extra cap space, which would cover the raises to Anisimov, Stepan, Sauer and McDonagh.

That's why we need a scorer to come from within the system to replace Gaborik in 3 years. If we have to keep on signing UFAs to fill out first line, we will continue to have to sacrifice our second-tier guys for rookies on their entry level contracts.

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10-12-2011, 01:43 PM
  #49
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I strongly can not stand Semin. He's a waste. Lazy, floating, entitled, spoiled, overpaid brat.

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10-12-2011, 03:03 PM
  #50
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What's even more interesting is that the Islanders are the 8th oldest team in the league, 2nd oldest defense, and 17th among forwards. I guess guys like Pandolfo and Mottau are killing their average.

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