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//#2// HFStars 2014 Top-20

View Poll Results: #2?
Ludvig Bystrom 0 0%
Jack Campbell 35 55.56%
Philippe Desrosiers 1 1.59%
Jason Dickinson 5 7.94%
Remi Elie 0 0%
Radek Faksa 1 1.59%
Scott Glennie 0 0%
Julius Honka 1 1.59%
Jyrki Jokipakka 0 0%
John Klingberg 7 11.11%
Esa Lindell 0 0%
Curtis McKenzie 0 0%
Emil Molin 0 0%
Patrik Nemeth 5 7.94%
Jamie Oleksiak 7 11.11%
Brett Pollock 0 0%
Devin Shore 1 1.59%
Gemel Smith 0 0%
Matej Stransky 0 0%
Cole Ully 0 0%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-19-2014, 05:57 PM
  #1
piqued
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//#2// HFStars 2014 Top-20

‏‏‏‏
prospect
pos.
country
acquired
round
change
% of vote
1
 ‏‏‏‏Brett Ritchie
RW
2011
2nd
4
73.9

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Old
07-19-2014, 06:05 PM
  #2
Satan
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Satan's Top 25 Dallas Stars Prospects

1. Brett Ritchie
2. Jack Campbell
3. Jason Dickinson
4. John Klingberg
5. Devin Shore
6. Jamie Oleksiak
7. Patrik Nemeth
8. Julius Honka
9. Cole Ully
10. Radek Faksa
11. Ludvig Bystrom
12. Curtis McKenzie
13. Jyrki Jokipakka
14. Remi Elie
15. Philippe Desrosiers
16. Matej Stransky
17. Dmitry Sinitsyn
18. Brett Pollock
19. Niklas Hansson
20. Gemel Smith
-----------------------
21. Brendan Ranford
22. Alex Peters
23. Branden Troock
24. Emil Molin
25. The Scott Glennie


Haters make me famous

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Old
07-19-2014, 06:17 PM
  #3
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Oleksiak again. Probably would have gone Campbell at 2. Would go Ritchie 3.

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07-19-2014, 06:17 PM
  #4
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Went with JC because he saves

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Old
07-19-2014, 06:18 PM
  #5
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So the other thread got closed while I was typing this up, so I'll just pretend that never happened and post this all here. Anyway:

In all honesty I think all of the top prospects have some major warts.

Ritchie (for whom I voted #1) will be a good to great goal scorer but he'll need someone else on his line to actually dictate the pace and make the plays, though he's not quite as one dimensional in that regard as, say, James Neal, he also doesn't have the same caliber of finishing ability. He gets a lot more chances at the lower levels because of his size and strength, but Neal converted a higher percentage of his chances. All in all, he's still a fine prospect to have at the top spot.

Campbell played great for 16 games, but he's had many spectacular stretches like that in his career. It's always been his cold streaks that have tempered our enthusiasm. Also, the entire Texas Stars team dominated possession for most of the season, and the defense was stifling. Even Nihlstorp looked solid statistically. While I can't hold it against him that he got injured, because he's in phenomenal physical shape, I can't read too much into his short sample size since the last poll. He tread water in my eyes. Still, that's not so bad because he was a solid prospect before. He'll most likely be my #3.

Oleksiak is a guy whose hockey sense and decision making skills have always been lacking, and he hasn't really shown any signs of improvement in that regard. I don't see him as a future core member of the team. He'll be a guy that will look useful as a veteran. I wouldn't even put him in my top 10, though I'm sure just about all of you will disagree. Still, 10th in this pool could be as good as 2 or 3 on some other teams so he could still easily exceed my expectations.

Honka (for whom I am voting #2) is not someone I know a lot about, but a lot of reports I hear about him almost deify his hockey IQ. This is intriguing to me because a smart enough player has no ceiling. However, it's always possible that a guy looks brilliant in the CHL but lost in the NHL or even the AHL. He has his work cut out for him though to become a top level defender because he doesn't have quite the tools to work with as many of his peers, but even for that aspect of the game, give me smarts over size any day.

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07-19-2014, 06:19 PM
  #6
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Klingberg. I think people here overrate Campbell, he has only had one really good season but he was injured therefore created a very small sample size. He is definitely not top 3 IMO.

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07-19-2014, 06:36 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klockis View Post
Klingberg. I think people here overrate Campbell, he has only had one really good season but he was injured therefore created a very small sample size. He is definitely not top 3 IMO.
Agreed, but people are gonna keep voting for him again and again, look at the past 4 years. The sheer amount of time it's taken to only get to the point where we are now should confirm that those past high placements weren't right. Again this year with Lindback and Rynnas both in the mix it doesn't seem like he's being counted on to be the clear cut AHL starter. I think his performance gives a lot of signs of encouragement for the future, but the amount of injuries that have piled up gives me the same amount of pause. Then you look at someone like John Gibson who already has NHL playoff experience... it's maddening.

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07-19-2014, 06:45 PM
  #8
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Jack Campbell is over the hill, battered and broken at the age of 22 IMHO

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07-19-2014, 06:49 PM
  #9
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That doesn't really address any of the questions or the reasoning behind ranking a goalie with a limited track record and quite likely several years distance between himself and significant contribution in the NHL this highly.

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07-19-2014, 06:51 PM
  #10
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Still struggling with who to go after Campbell. I know it's not Desrosiers yet for me.

It's a toss up between Dickinson and Shore at forward or Bystrom, Honka, Klingberg, or Oleksiak at defense.

I don't think I'm going Bystrom next, but I'm going to make a case for him early since so many seem to overlook him ... like Glove recently mentioned. We looked at Klingberg's big year, but what Bystrom did as a 19 year old is pretty huge. Plus ... it's his birthday tomorrow (today right now in Sweden I believe). What he's doing at 19 is comparable to some of the best Swedes in the game.

He seems to have a similar size and skill set to Niklas Kronwall according to reports.

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07-19-2014, 07:09 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Agreed, but people are gonna keep voting for him again and again, look at the past 4 years. The sheer amount of time it's taken to only get to the point where we are now should confirm that those past high placements weren't right. Again this year with Lindback and Rynnas both in the mix it doesn't seem like he's being counted on to be the clear cut AHL starter. I think his performance gives a lot of signs of encouragement for the future, but the amount of injuries that have piled up gives me the same amount of pause. Then you look at someone like John Gibson who already has NHL playoff experience... it's maddening.
Great post. Gibson was a 2nd round pick too. Also one could argue Derosiers is a better prospect, the guy has actually had one full good season and postseason.

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07-19-2014, 07:18 PM
  #12
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How many 22 year old goalies are making waves in the NHL?

Campbell has always had the potential to be a #1 in the league. I'm not worrying about his injury problems. If it doesn't work out this year? Yeah, then I'll start worrying.

Let the guy continue to blossom in our system.


Also- I don't think Anaheim's goalie carousel is a fair comparison with Gibson stepping in to get NHL time. That was a mess.

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07-19-2014, 07:20 PM
  #13
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Anyway- I'm done wasting time defending a pick that I despised 4 years ago.

He still has that shimmer. When he played last season he proved the nay-sayers wrong.

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07-19-2014, 07:20 PM
  #14
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Campbell's upside is really high and he was great when he played this year. The strike against him is that he has a hard time staying healthy. I went with him over Klingberg or some of the others because of potential. I can understand and respect the rationale for taking Klingberg here though. Arguments can be made for both players.

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07-19-2014, 07:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klockis View Post
Great post. Gibson was a 2nd round pick too. Also one could argue Derosiers is a better prospect, the guy has actually had one full good season and postseason.
So we can ignore Campbell's 18 year old season but Desrosier's 19 year old season is admissible to evidence? Check. Ignore year he lead US to Gold in the U20 and U18 same season. That must have been a mediocre season. No need to fact check or accurately state Desrosiers had a good 2nd half ... painfully mediocre start to the season. Ignoring outlandish claims like that and nickel and diming any prospect ...

I agree he's no lock to be a stud starting goaltender, but I'd say outside of Ritchie at this point ... no one else really sticks out as a lock for NHL glory either. He's a guy that every year when you watch him he addresses his issues and corrects them. When he was win gold medals ... he scrambled like crazy and made fantastical saves and allowed awful goals. He's as come as Kari in net most nights now ... at a much lower level of competition.

He was mentally weak in the OHL, and more often than not he's focuses and unfazed by the game. Goal is the most difficult position to play, and instead of crumbling when he's been insufficient in areas he's done everything possible to make himself better. As much as I appreciate that Glennie salvaged his career because of a hard ass coach, it's more impressive that a guy like Campbell is a driven individual who fights to be the best possible and to this point hasn't failed at advancing his game when needed.

His career trajectory and the talent he has for sure have him moving well towards a solid NHL career as a starter. Since none of the other forwards are clear cut first liners and none of the D are locks for top pair D ... he's easily in the conversation with those prospects. I don't think there's much of gap from this point to probably around 10 give or take a few.

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07-19-2014, 07:37 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Campbell's upside is really high and he was great when he played this year. The strike against him is that he has a hard time staying healthy. I went with him over Klingberg or some of the others because of potential. I can understand and respect the rationale for taking Klingberg here though. Arguments can be made for both players.
How is the knock against him he can't stay healthy when this was the first season he wasn't healthy?

I can't recall any other significant injury issues, and I did try to do a quick search on Google. Didn't see anything of note.

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07-19-2014, 07:48 PM
  #17
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This article from Mark made no mention of injuries in his first pro season.

Anyway did notice this interesting quotes:
Quote:
But the end of the NHL lockout and then an injury to Nilstorp gave Campbell a chance to take the reins in Texas for a while and he was superb. In February, he posted a 6-2-1 record, 1.65 goals against average and .932 save percentage.

“Jack had a huge developmental year, a great positive step coming out of juniors,” said Dallas Stars goaltending coach Mike Valley. “He ran that stretch in February where he played almost every game, and I think that was a lot of confidence for him. His game has really started maturing. He’s playing a lot more controlled, he’s controlling himself more emotionally, too.”
... and if signing Rynnas and Lindback says anything negative about Campbell or his development ... I guess they really don't trust Ritchie either since signing Hemsky, appearing to be happy moving forward with Cole getting a serious look in the Top 6, and adding several one-way contracts to make bringing in two way forwards more difficult would obviously be some sort of commentary about Brett ... or well maybe it's just this:

Quote:
“It’s part of the process. Healthy competition is good,” said Stars GM Jim Nill. “It doesn’t mean we are brushing off his development. We’re very conscious that he needs to play, he needs to play a certain amount of games. But that can’t be given to him, he needs to earn it. We’ve talked to him. We’re conscious of where he is and he’s in a good spot. He’ll be just fine.”
That was last year ... and Nill has repeated a similar quote this year as well. It's the consistent approach he's had with every position on the team and down in Texas.

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07-19-2014, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
That doesn't really address any of the questions or the reasoning behind ranking a goalie with a limited track record and quite likely several years distance between himself and significant contribution in the NHL this highly.
This sounds like a bias against goaltenders in general because they often don't make an impact in the NHL until 24 or 25 years old, unless they are basically guaranteed superstars like Gibson. However, they peak later than skaters so you'll end up getting the same quality years out of them, just a bit later. I just don't see a justification in knocking a goalie prospect for being a few years away.

And limited track record? As opposed to unlimited? He's played 40 games a season since being drafted, and that's not even counting his international games. That's more than Gibson. You can say his track record is good or bad or anything in between, but it's definitely there if you look for it.

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07-19-2014, 08:53 PM
  #19
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Jack Campbell for me. Too high of upside to pass up on especially when he started to realize it this year. I have high hopes for him still.

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07-19-2014, 09:25 PM
  #20
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Jack for number two. I'm probably going to go with Oleksiak, Dickinson and Honka next. Man, this is ****ing awesome. We actually have a legit system now. Feels good.

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07-19-2014, 10:06 PM
  #21
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1) Brett Ritchie
2) Jack Campbell
3) Devin Shore
4) Jason Dickinson
5) Jamie Oleksiak
6) Julius Honka
7) John Klingberg
8) Patrik Nemeth
9) Radek Faksa
10) Remi Elie
11) Philippe Desrosiers
12) Ludvig Bystrom
13) Cole Ully
14) Curtis McKenzie
15) Niklas Hansson
16) Jyrki Jokipakka
17) Brett Pollock
18) Scott Glennie
19) Matej Stransky
20) Brandan Troock

Just outside: Ranford, Smith, Sinitsyn, Molin, Prapavessis

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07-19-2014, 10:13 PM
  #22
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I think Oleksiaks upside is too high to pass on theres so many talented prospects despite the trades made to bring in segs and Spez, exciting time to be a stars fan

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07-19-2014, 10:45 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
How is the knock against him he can't stay healthy when this was the first season he wasn't healthy?

I can't recall any other significant injury issues, and I did try to do a quick search on Google. Didn't see anything of note.
My bad.

He needs to do what he did last year over a full season.

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07-19-2014, 11:07 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairylikebear View Post
This sounds like a bias against goaltenders in general because they often don't make an impact in the NHL until 24 or 25 years old, unless they are basically guaranteed superstars like Gibson. However, they peak later than skaters so you'll end up getting the same quality years out of them, just a bit later. I just don't see a justification in knocking a goalie prospect for being a few years away.
It absolutely is a bias against goaltenders. In general I wouldn't rank them as highly as skaters, just as I wouldn't draft them as highly. Why is Gibson a guaranteed superstar but Campbell isn't? Shouldn't he be? They may peak later than skaters but that doesn't mean they have as many years of contributing at a high level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
... and if signing Rynnas and Lindback says anything negative about Campbell or his development ... I guess they really don't trust Ritchie either since signing Hemsky, appearing to be happy moving forward with Cole getting a serious look in the Top 6, and adding several one-way contracts to make bringing in two way forwards more difficult would obviously be some sort of commentary about Brett ... or well maybe it's just this:
I didn't say the Lindback and Rynnas acquisitions said anything negative about Campbell, simply that they once again will likely result in him playing less games and thereby lengthening his development process. All the platitudes about competition are great, but as we've seen repeatedly coaches will gravitate toward playing veterans and there's only one net. Not 8 winger positions.


Last edited by piqued: 07-19-2014 at 11:13 PM.
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07-19-2014, 11:13 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I didn't say the Lindback and Rynnas acquisitions said anything negative about Campbell, simply that they once again will likely result in him playing less games and thereby lengthening his development process. All the platitudes about competition are great, but as we've seen repeatedly coaches will gravitate toward playing veterans and there's only one net. Not 8 winger positions.
If Campbell isn't outplaying either of those guys next year he likely just isn't that good. A tandem is conceivable but if he ends up backing up one of those guys I will have to bump him way down my list.

Btw, I still think it's reasonable that Desrosiers could be the better goalie in 3-4 years. I'm interested to see where he lands on this list.

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