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Zach Parise at the deadline...do we make a play?

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Old
10-12-2011, 10:07 PM
  #26
jfb392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
No thanks, I like Parise alot but I would rather the team focus there attention on a Jarret Stoll type come the Trade Deadline .. At the expense of Brad Boyes would be great too:

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Ennis-Leino/Stoll-Stafford
Hecht-Stoll/Leino-Roy
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

I think Stoll would fit in well on this team, but why does LA deal him?
They look to be a legitimate contender and teams don't deal away center depth, they add to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
With a 7-year age difference between Enroth and Miller, I'm not so sure I trade Enroth, regardless of the other factors. If that doesn't make Jersey interested, so be it.
If another team covets a goaltending prospect that has never consistently dominated or become what he was once hyped to be, you absolutely deal him.
Backups are a dime a dozen and if given the opportunity, I'm sure we'd no longer cheap out like we have before.

Right now, I'd say that Enroth is likely to leave for Europe at the end of his current contract if he hasn't won a starting job or isn't at least part of a platoon situation somewhere, and he's unlikely to get that here.
I think the fact that he considered an offer from a team located in Europe's last dictatorship for longer than two seconds speaks volumes about his desire to play here if he isn't getting minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
Kovalchuk plays for New Jersey still, therefor not a rental ..
He was traded to the Devils during the season in which he became an unrestricted free agent, so he was a rental.

Yes, he re-signed with the Devils later, but he reportedly almost signed with the Kings and SKA St. Petersburg of the KHL.
I don't think a lot of people even believed that he'd stay with the Devils either because he was demanding a max contract from the Thrashers (which it's more clear now that he likely wanted nothing to do with the Thrashers anymore).

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Old
10-12-2011, 10:15 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
overpayment?? try underpayment.. It would take that package plus draft picks .. On top of that Kovalchuck wasn't a rental .. Heres what I would propose:

To Buffalo:

Zack Parise
Johan Hedberg

To New Jersey:

Tyler Ennis
Brad Boyes
Andrej Sekera
Jhonas Enroth
1st Round Draft Pick 2012
2nd Round Draft Pick 2012
2nd Round Draft Pick 2012 (Calgary)

Parise-Roy-Stafford
Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Hecht-Leino-McCormick
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
Ellis

Regehr-Myers
Leopold-Erhoff
Gragnani-Weber
Brennan?

Miller
Hedberg

IMO that is what it would take and it is very intruiging..Not so sure I would pull the trigger though ..
... Jokes.

I agree Parise is the better player, but you're still overpaying. When is the last time you've seen a superstar player traded for what you are proposing. Thornton, Kovalchuk, Heatley, look at what these players were traded for. Thornton was coming off a 100+ pt season for goodness sakes.

If Leino works out well, then I think we are pretty much set at center. Even if Lukey doesn't keep this pace up, he can do a solid job on the 3rd or 4th line. He will have somewhat talented linemates throughout the line up. He is big, and he is strong and has the potential to put up more points than Stoll. We don't need Stoll.

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Old
10-13-2011, 05:59 AM
  #28
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Grant it, he has a NMC I would much rather have Shane Doan. He's only 550,000 more then Boyes (i.e trade Boyes and stash Ellis=Doan's contract). He brings physicality to this team and probably won't cost a kings ransom (maybe a Prince's ransom)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.142m) / Luke Adam ($0.875m) / Jason Pominville ($5.300m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.433m) / Derek Roy ($4.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Tyler Ennis ($0.875m) / Ville Leino ($4.500m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Cody McCormick ($1.200m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.300m) / Patrick Kaleta ($0.907m)
/ / Jochen Hecht ($3.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Robyn Regehr ($4.020m) / Tyler Myers ($1.300m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Jordan Leopold ($3.000m)
Andrej Sekera ($2.750m) / Marc-Andre Gragnani ($0.550m)
Mike Weber ($0.950m)

GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m) / Jhonas Enroth ($0.675m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,103,690; BONUSES: $87,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $196,310

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Old
10-13-2011, 07:02 AM
  #29
dkollidas
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I see both sides of the argument here. The Sabres already have great scoring DEPTH. Vanek, will likely hit 30 if not 40 this season. Pominville, Roy, and Stafford all have the ability to hit 30 goals. Gerbe, Ennis, Leino, even Boyes and maybe Adam have the ability to hit 20 goals. Not all of them will, but maybe six of them will hit the 20 goal mark. That's a great amount of depth. But while Vanek is a very very good player, there's no guy like Parise on the squad. Our defense is also deep, with Weber currently riding the pine, you have Myers, Regehr, Erhoff, Leopold, Sekera, and Gragniani, along with Morrisonn, Schiestel, Brennan, Persson, Crawford and McNabb in the minors, along with Foligno and Kassian at forward.

You could say don't do the deal because you'll be giving up too much, but if the price is right, do it.

In my opinion a deal centering around Ennis, Enroth and a pick or prospect could be close, but I think that to get this done, you could trade Roy and a prospect like Pysyk and get it done. If Adam and Leino show they're is top-6 material, do it, make Hecht your 3rd line center and then you're lineup is like this...

Vanek- Adam -Pominville
Parise- Leino- Stafford
Gerbe- Hecht- Boyes
McCormick-Gaustad- Kaleta

Regehr-Myers
Erhoff-Leopold
Gragniani- Sekera
Weber

Miller
Enroth

If you go the other route, a deal of Ennis, Enroth and Pysyk would likely be close

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Parise-Roy-Stafford
Hecht-Leino-Gerbe
McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

(deal Boyes in a seperate deal for cap space)

Regehr-Myers
Erhoff-Leopold
Gragniani-Sekera
Weber

Miller
*Hedberg

So either...

To Buffalo:
-Zack Parise

To New Jersey:
-Derek Roy
-Mark Pysyk

OR

To Buffalo:
-Zack Parise
-Johan Hedberg

To New Jersey:
-Tyler Ennis
-Jhonas Enroth
-Brad Boyes (if they want him)
-Mark Pysyk

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Old
10-13-2011, 08:44 AM
  #30
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Definitely, IMO. Parise is a superstar. I don't think we would necessarily have to trade Ennis either.

^Maybe that trade (Ennis, Enroth, Pysyk) but with a 2012/2013 1st instead of Ennis for Parise. And then other trades for the cap. Also yes to Herbert because I like him.

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10-13-2011, 08:59 AM
  #31
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I'll first say that the "numbers" part of the trade is definitely the biggest obstacle, and I realized that coming in. To be honest this was one of those "slow hockey news day" musings that popped in my head.

Going off what dkollidas said: the idea of trading Roy+ for Parise is intriguing. The Devils are one of the only teams out there with arguably less center depth than us, and even if he would be just a "rental" for Jersey, they might take it into consideration because of the exclusivity it would grant them for his negotiating rights.

This totally ignores the fact that we'd be have to sacrifice even more of our center depth, and assuming we're in the playoff race at the end of the year, you don't even entertain that option unless both Leino and Adam are playing at a ridiculous level...and even then you don't do it.

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Old
10-13-2011, 09:03 AM
  #32
dkollidas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassian View Post
Definitely, IMO. Parise is a superstar. I don't think we would necessarily have to trade Ennis either.

^Maybe that trade (Ennis, Enroth, Pysyk) but with a 2012/2013 1st instead of Ennis for Parise. And then other trades for the cap. Also yes to Herbert because I like him.
The only thing then is trying to re-sign Ennis and Parise. And then having a super-glut of forwards. It'd be great to have all these guys but I don't believe they'll all fit under the cap. Maybe Ennis, Pysyk and Boyes instead of Enroth and take out Hedberg?

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Old
10-13-2011, 09:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MGIII View Post
Does NJ have the cap space to just take a glut of our players?
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=20

They are under the cap by around $4.6M.

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Old
10-13-2011, 10:13 AM
  #34
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It could work out, Lamiorello would probably need to knwo that Parise does not want back in NJ, so we could move some salary back and send Ennis or Enroth as the main piece.

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10-13-2011, 10:19 AM
  #35
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I may be in the minority but if we add anyone at the deadline (way too early to speculate) I would want to add another knuckle-dragger on the blueline that will punish the opposition.

Make the Sabres a very uncomfortable team to play against come April is my thought.

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10-13-2011, 10:34 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
I'll first say that the "numbers" part of the trade is definitely the biggest obstacle, and I realized that coming in.
I thought that at first, too, but then I realized: we can now do whatever we want to do, fiscally. Waive Boyes and trade whatever you absolutely have to to NJ. Done. Now you've turned Boyes into Parise.

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10-13-2011, 10:37 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
Oduya - Sekera
Bergfors - Ennis esque, although I would put him a category above Bergfors
Cromier - Luke Adam
1st Round Pick = 1st Round Pick

so for arguements sake lets say:

Ennis, Adam, Sekera and 1st Round Pick for Zack Parise ..

Obviously thats alot less than my proposed package but I still don't think I would do that. I like our team the way it is only move I would like to seen made is for a big tough Center, COUGH STOLL COUGH **

Sekera >>> Oduya
Ennis >>>> Bergfors
Adam >>>> Cormier

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10-13-2011, 10:55 AM
  #38
joshjull
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I would love to have Parise but I don't think he makes sense as a target at the deadline for a variety of reasons. Now if we were talking the summer, then I could see trying to get him.


Last edited by joshjull: 10-13-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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Old
10-13-2011, 11:02 AM
  #39
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Because the Sabres aren't good enough?

Seriously, this team is pretty much set. Darcy is probably in Cabo right now lighting Cohibas with $100 bills. No need for any big moves.

I say let it ride. I like this team a lot how it is.

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10-13-2011, 11:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by skibum View Post
Because the Sabres aren't good enough?

Seriously, this team is pretty much set. Darcy is probably in Cabo right now lighting Cohibas with $100 bills. No need for any big moves.

I say let it ride. I like this team a lot how it is.
There is a long ways to go between now and the deadline....

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10-13-2011, 02:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by skibum View Post
Because the Sabres aren't good enough?

Seriously, this team is pretty much set. Darcy is probably in Cabo right now lighting Cohibas with $100 bills. No need for any big moves.

I say let it ride. I like this team a lot how it is.
I wouldn say you do it to make the team better. I really like this group as well, but if you have expendable parts and some regulars that can get you a "star player" then you do it. The team has a lot of youth, they have time to develop another goalie prospect behind Miller for the future and they are deep enough with defensive prospects that letting one go won't kill them. I think if you can give Ennis, Boyes/Hecht and Pysyk and maybe another mid-range prospect/pick, you do that deal, because Boyes is totally expendable. Depth on defense allows Pysyk to be available, and Parise is better than Ennis, and will be for a few year IMO.

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10-13-2011, 04:07 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum View Post
Because the Sabres aren't good enough?

Seriously, this team is pretty much set. Darcy is probably in Cabo right now lighting Cohibas with $100 bills. No need for any big moves.

I say let it ride. I like this team a lot how it is.
Yes. Because the Sabres aren't good enough. They lost in the first round two years straight and missed the playoffs the two years before with a nearly identical forward corps, and you want to argue that we're too good to bother nabbing a guy who would be the best forward on our team (and maybe best player overall?). They aren't ranked in the top 10 teams in the league by most media outlets (whether they should be higher or not, the fact that they aren't still goes to show that they're not a slam-dunk contender). They would be a big dark horse cup winner at this point. Zach Parise would instantly be the best forward on the team. How could you possibly say no on the grounds that you're already too good? Do you seriously like losing?!

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10-13-2011, 04:15 PM
  #43
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If the Devils thought they were going to trade him at the deadline they would have never given him the "C." He's not going anywhere.

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10-13-2011, 04:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by MillsyMyers30 View Post
If the Devils thought they were going to trade him at the deadline they would have never given him the "C." He's not going anywhere.
Keep in mind we're talking about Lou's team right??? It doesn't have to make sense if it is what he wants to happen. perhaps it was partly intended to be a sign of dedication from NJ to Zach - "this is how much we love you!!!"

Parise is and should be the captain of that team regardless of whether he is there next year or not. Captaincy aside (see Mike Richards...), I certainly wouldn't say he is on the block, but if he doesn't give a strong indication of his long-term intentions by the time the deadline rolls around expect him to be dealt.

Lou won't settle for letting him walk away when he could get a great package via trade.

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10-13-2011, 04:58 PM
  #45
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NJ is going to have to be out of it for the Devils to trade Parise IMHO.

They will likely float between 6th-10th most of the season, so I can't see them moving him unless he has told them flat out 'I'm not signing here'

My guess is that both sides were hesitant to sign long term. For NJ's standpoint, he's coming off a major injury. From his standpoint, the team just finished near the bottom of the league and on its 3rd coach in 2 years.

If the Devils are near a playoff spot or better and Parise is performing well, look for him to get signed long term.

As much as I love his skill, in the end, we are deep on the wings with youngsters looking to break through next year with Kassian, Foligno, and even Armia. IF we are going to part with those types of assets, it should be to get a top flight center.

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10-13-2011, 05:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
NJ is going to have to be out of it for the Devils to trade Parise IMHO.

They will likely float between 6th-10th most of the season, so I can't see them moving him unless he has told them flat out 'I'm not signing here'

My guess is that both sides were hesitant to sign long term. For NJ's standpoint, he's coming off a major injury. From his standpoint, the team just finished near the bottom of the league and on its 3rd coach in 2 years.

If the Devils are near a playoff spot or better and Parise is performing well, look for him to get signed long term.

As much as I love his skill, in the end, we are deep on the wings with youngsters looking to break through next year with Kassian, Foligno, and even Armia. IF we are going to part with those types of assets, it should be to get a top flight center.
This.

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10-13-2011, 05:11 PM
  #47
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Sure, in a perfect world where top-flight centers were available when you needed them, but the rule is: you give up those kinds of assets whenever doing so makes your team better. Zach Parise makes this team better. Boom.

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10-13-2011, 09:36 PM
  #48
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I definitely think he'd be a great fit, and I remember when we played the Devils some time in the winter he was quoted saying stuff like "They have a great new owner" and he's good friends with Drew Stafford, so it makes a lot of sense. With that being said, unless it was a sign-and-trade I wouldn't really want to chance it at the deadline, because it's going to be a pretty hefty price.

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10-13-2011, 09:46 PM
  #49
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We don't really need wingers... that said it would be awesome to see Parise in a Sabres uniform, no doubt. I just don't think it works for either organization.

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10-13-2011, 10:57 PM
  #50
dkollidas
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Originally Posted by jamers View Post
We don't really need wingers... that said it would be awesome to see Parise in a Sabres uniform, no doubt. I just don't think it works for either organization.

I agree and disagree with that statement about wingers/centers. Right now, yes we have a glut of wingers. But by the trade deadline our center position may look even stronger. If Adam continues to play at a high level and sticks with Vanek and Pominville, we may have the top-line center we've been looking for. If Leino can be a 20-goal 60-point guy, he's putting up #2 numbers. That'd leave Roy as the number 3 center. If that's the case around the deadline, then center becomes one of our strengths, not weaknesses. And hey, if you can move Ennis, a prospect like Pysyk/Enroth, and a player like Boyes for Parise, do it in a heartbeat. We have plenty of defensive prospects, Parise replaces Ennis and then some, Boyes is expendable, and if you move Enroth, maybe you trade a defensive prospect for a goalie prospect (maybe Holtby or Neuvirth from the Caps, or Bernier, or Allen from St.Louis). This is the type of move I feel the team will be comfortable doing knowing Darcy's abilities to 1) draft and develop prospects 2) Regier's ability to make fairly reasonable deals in which te Sabres rarely overpay and 3) Pegula's willingness to spend to show Parise his club and make an all out effort to keep him long term and use long term (see: Erhoff, Christian) deals to keep under the cap.

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