HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Plus/Minus Pens vs Caps 10/13/11

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-13-2011, 11:20 PM
  #101
Tender Rip
Learning from Scuds?
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I believe that was actually the consensus here over the offseason. So you were far from alone.
More than it being the consensus because of 'fit' considerations (which I agree it was), I think most considered it just wrong if it wasn't a bigger priority to add a a quality winger for Malkin to help get him back to where he needs to be. From the early look we've had, it surely seems as if he is getting there and that Neal will be able to have a good share in that.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:21 PM
  #102
KaylaJ
Tungsten!
 
KaylaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hell
Country: United States
Posts: 14,736
vCash: 500
Thought Staal did OK, but eventually he needs to be burying more of those chances. It seems like he has more than anyone else or you just notice them more cause he's not putting them into the net. Neal is doing what I'd like to see Staal do as well.

There was one point on a PP where Paul Martin held on to the puck for what I thought was too long. He eventually passed it to Nisky who missed the net.

Like how Engelland's game has evolved.

Hopefully they raised a good amount of money for a good cause.

-We got Knubled.

KaylaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:21 PM
  #103
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
And, if one of your big advantages as a team is that Malkin gets lesser defensive units against him, then I think you gain less from Neal with Sid/Kunitz against top defensive pairings than you lose with replacing Neal with TK to play with Malkin.
That I agree with.

I've requested it for a few seasons now but I'd still like to give Kunitz - Crosby - Kennedy a long stretch of games to see what they can do. Those 3 little ******** would be miserable to play against.

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:21 PM
  #104
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I believe that was actually the consensus here over the offseason. So you were far from alone.
Funny how things work out, eh?

That said, I still think Coach Disco is going to split up Malkin and Neal. As I wrote moments ago, Neal will be good with Sid. Sid/Kunitz will be better with Neal than with Sully.

That said, as an opposing coach, which top two lines would concern you more:

Kunitz-Sid-Neal
Sully-Malkin-TK

OR

Kunitz-Sid-Sully
TK-Malkin-Neal

Like you, I think you sacrifice your Malkin advantage more than you strengthen Sid's line if you slot Neal with Sid.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:21 PM
  #105
Tasty Biscuits
with fancy sauce
 
Tasty Biscuits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Yeah, Staal is hard to watch. He helps this team in some ways, but he's like Ryan Whitney to me. A good player, but frustrating as hell to watch a lot of the time.
Staal has been Powerplay poison recently, which is tough to say, but it's true. The guy just doesn't look like he'll ever have the offensive ability to top 60 points.

Tasty Biscuits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:22 PM
  #106
SEALBound
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,587
vCash: 500
+'s

Neal - Awesome...this is why we brought him here!
Malkin - Beast mode!
Letang - As usual
CVD - Again an effective line. I would love to see this line all year
Asham - No explanation needed
Engelland - Did pretty good
M&M - Again, quiet yet effective

='s
Kunitz
TK
Sully
Nisk

These guys did well...but nothing over the top. HIT THE F-ING NET!!!

-'s
Stall and his penalty. Needless. Again, 1-2 flashes but mostly fizzle. I didn't think he played all that great anyway.
Johnny - Didn't need that first one.
Lovejoy - Maybe not a minus but...just not seeing it out of this kid.
Powerplay - Looking better but...it has to score.

Thoughts for when Crosby comes back...I love Neal-Malkin together. Would prefer not to break them up...

Kunitz - Crosby - Sully
Neal - Malkin - TK
Asham - Staal - Adams
Cooke - Vitale - Dupuis

I love the CVD line too much to want to break it up and Staal belongs no where near the top 6.

SEALBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:24 PM
  #107
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
Can you like, shutup
 
Malkin4Top6Wingerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 4,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
What I'm really liking, and what I really saw tonight, was Neal playing a hybrid Malone/Sykora with Malkin. I mean, we all figured you'd see it, but, tonight, the concept became reality. Geno remembers that he's not just "I'm assist Neal" but also "I'm score" and Sully starts meshing a little more naturally as third wheel (not bad, but IMHO it can and will be better), and that line is going to be nuts.
Not to toot my own horn, but I actually made that exact connection a while back when discussing where Neal should play when Sid and Geno are healthy. Malkin's best hockey came alongside Malone and Sykora, and Neal has the best traits of both players.

Unsurprisingly, I'm in favor of keeping the Sid-Kunitz / Malkin-Neal / Staal - TK tandems together. For the first time in a while we are actually deep enough to roll the three headed monster.

Or perhaps more accurately, the four headed monster. Vitale has been awesome.

Malkin4Top6Wingerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:25 PM
  #108
lirit
Romans 8:31
 
lirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 500
#capsfanslogic PP's must be equal.

lirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:25 PM
  #109
nTsplnk*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,282
vCash: 500
Staal just doesn't have "it." And you all know what I'm talking about.

He really needs to step up his game in the offensive zone

nTsplnk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:25 PM
  #110
Sidney the Kidney
Beastmode Penguins
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Thought Staal did OK, but eventually he needs to be burying more of those chances. It seems like he has more than anyone else or you just notice them more cause he's not putting them into the net. Neal is doing what I'd like to see Staal do as well.
I think the problem with Staal is he takes a second too long to shoot. He'll drive to the net, get in a spot where he can actually get a good scoring chance, but then hangs onto the puck for one more deke, and ends up either flubbing the puck or getting it knocked off his stick.

His skating seems better, but his shot and decision making in the offensive zone are still frustratingly bad.

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:25 PM
  #111
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Neal reminds me a lot of Malone, and Malkin has missed a player like that for a long time. Malkin just seems to me to need a complimentary player like that more to excel than Crosby does, though both do exceedingly well, no matter who is on their wings.

Oh, as for the Asham thing, it was an emotional response, so do not expect rationality. I would not want Asham, or anyone, to go intentionally headhunting. But I am not going to say I am all that sorry that one of theirs got the short end there either.
O'k, now I know I must be growing some smarts, because I mentioned Malone earlier too . . .

Thing is, Malone was good but inconsistent with Sid. He fit like a glove with Geno, where he could go from having to try to keep up to just playing his game without having to worry about adapting. In this regard, Neal likely will be similarly good with Sid (a better fit than Malone, but still not as natural a fit as I suspect he is with Geno).

I just look at it and say "o'k, my Geno linemate problem is solved, put Sully with Sid or Duper with Sid and spend some of the cap money at the deadline to get Sid an impact winger".

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:26 PM
  #112
nTsplnk*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think the problem with Staal is he takes a second too long to shoot. He'll drive to the net, get in a spot where he can actually get a good scoring chance, but then hangs onto the puck for one more deke, and ends up either flubbing the puck or getting it knocked off his stick.

His skating seems better, but his shot and decision making in the offensive zone are still frustratingly bad.
Deke? Staal?

I personally think Staal is just slow. His release is way to slow and he just doesn't have the instinct to score.

He's never ready to score. He drives the net not paying attention and when he gets the puck he's confused.

nTsplnk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:30 PM
  #113
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
That I agree with.

I've requested it for a few seasons now but I'd still like to give Kunitz - Crosby - Kennedy a long stretch of games to see what they can do. Those 3 little ******** would be miserable to play against.
Agreed on TK with Sid and Kunitz with one minor caution: Sid might crack his stick over TK's head after the 30th time he goes into spaz mode (figure sometime in the second period of their first game together ).

I wonder if Sully might be the better fit . . . more north/south in style, a guy who might really benefit from Sid/Kunitz and how they create space more than how Geno/Neal create space. I also wonder if TK might be a better fit with Geno/Neal than with Sid/Kunitz.

No matter what, Neal is the second line answer. Keep him with Malkin. Try TK or Sully or Duper with Sid and Kunitz. If you want to give Sid more, then spend a chunk of the 6-8M in prorated deadline cap dollars and get Sid and impact winger.

It just strikes me as an infinitely more sensible way to do things than to have to address what will be a Malkin problem (if he's out there with Sully AND TK and getting a lot of shifts on Staal's wing).

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:32 PM
  #114
Sidney the Kidney
Beastmode Penguins
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,685
vCash: 1113
Quote:
Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
Deke? Staal?

I personally think Staal is just slow. His release is way to slow and he just doesn't have the instinct to score.

He's never ready to score. He drives the net not paying attention and when he gets the puck he's confused.
I should say attempts one more deke, since it usually results in him losing the puck.

Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:32 PM
  #115
SEALBound
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,587
vCash: 500
Its his quickness. Perhaps a lack of fast twitch muscle fibers but...I think he sees what to do but he's just so slow at executing it...or he's scared to do it. He hasn't improved his shot over the summer and his stick is still the size of a telephone pole.

All of this makes his reaction time slow. When you watch him make his moves its like they are in slow motion. Jordan...you're not Mario buddy. Mario was the only one that could walk through players. You have to be faster. Much faster.

SEALBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:32 PM
  #116
Cardboard Orpik
Out 4-6 Weeks
 
Cardboard Orpik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
+ Neal. He's clicking and that has huge implications. If he keeps developing chemistry with Geno things are going to get scary.

+ Malkin. The best he's looked so far. I got excited every time he stepped onto the ice and that excitement was justified.

+ Engelland. I loved seeing him get up in Ovi's face and pressure, even if he was outmatched. The kid never gave up.

+ Asham. One for KO and two for the gesture afterwards. Was it unnecessary? Yeah, but it guaranteed that fight would be seen by everyone in the NHL. Asham sent a message tonight, and that message was "We will **** you up".

+ Our Defense. Our D really crushed it in the first and third periods. Complete domination. I don't even want to think about how good they'll be once Orpik comes back.


- Kennedy. Every shot was either dead center into the goalies chest or missed the net. His overall play was fine but man, he just can't seem to sink them or even get close, really.

- Johnson. None of the goals were due to heinous errors on his part, but still. In a game like this where they only get 19 shots, you can't let 3 go in. I feel like Fleury might have nabbed this one for us.

Cardboard Orpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:33 PM
  #117
KaylaJ
Tungsten!
 
KaylaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hell
Country: United States
Posts: 14,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think the problem with Staal is he takes a second too long to shoot. He'll drive to the net, get in a spot where he can actually get a good scoring chance, but then hangs onto the puck for one more deke, and ends up either flubbing the puck or getting it knocked off his stick.

His skating seems better, but his shot and decision making in the offensive zone are still frustratingly bad.
Yeah, seems like the puck is always moving or he's just a second too late.

Also I think he's still dealing with the lack of confidence from last season. By the time he was healthy enough to come back the team was on its way to being depleted. He did his best, but it was obvious he was frustrated not being able to score. Once again he's getting his chances, but he seems to tense up on quite a few of them.

KaylaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:34 PM
  #118
The Room*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Brazil
Posts: 1,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lirit View Post
#capsfanslogic PP's must be equal.
They're retarded, they can't grasp the concept that we got the Powerplays because we severely outplayed them and were in their zone for 75% percent of the game.

The Room* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:35 PM
  #119
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 16,369
vCash: 500
This loss blows but in the big picture it's a huge positive IMO. The Pens dominated the Caps missing MAF, Sid and Orpik, and only lost because of fluky bounces, Vok playing well and missing the net.

The Pens are the best team in the east no doubt in my mind.

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:36 PM
  #120
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,866
vCash: 500
This was the first game where I didn't notice Vitale much.

I think it was great that Letestu was sat. I'm looking for him to show his character now.

Staal is frustrating. He's missing a shot. That's really all he's missing. He looks noticeably faster, noticeably stronger, has much more confidence with the puck, and is really using his big frame to shield the puck. All he's missing is a shot. I don't know if he'll ever find it.

I love Steve Sullivan manning the point on the powerplay. He has a confidence about him, and it's very calming. He is exactly what the doctor ordered for us, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVP View Post
Crosby hasn't played 2 seconds with Neal, we're a long way from concluding that Neal is better with Malkin.

And I think Neal's style of play would suit Crosby's quite well.
Yeah, this.

People have said Neal would work best with Malkin, and I don't disagree. I think if you put good players with good players, you're going to get results.

I do however think that Neal is more of a north-south guy, as is Sid. Both play a grind it out style. I'd like to see what it looks like.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:36 PM
  #121
Tender Rip
Learning from Scuds?
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,594
vCash: 500
Before everyone comes out to sound their horn on this, can we just agree that EVERYONE made the Neal/Malone connection, repeatedly and vociferously ?

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:36 PM
  #122
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Not to toot my own horn, but I actually made that exact connection a while back when discussing where Neal should play when Sid and Geno are healthy. Malkin's best hockey came alongside Malone and Sykora, and Neal has the best traits of both players.

Unsurprisingly, I'm in favor of keeping the Sid-Kunitz / Malkin-Neal / Staal - TK tandems together. For the first time in a while we are actually deep enough to roll the three headed monster.

Or perhaps more accurately, the four headed monster. Vitale has been awesome.
Problem there is you're saying Duper with Sid, which will suck short term but can easily be addressed at the trade deadline. Anyway, here are your FOUR options, I suppose:

Kunitz-Sid-Duper
Sully-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Staal-TK

OR

Kunitz-Sid-Sully
TK-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Staal-Duper

OR

Kunitz-Sid-Sully
Duper-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Staal-TK

OR

Kunitz-Sid-TK
Sully-Geno-Neal
Cooke-Staal-Duper

I like the first or second but could live with the third or fourth (I hate Duper with Geno as a rule, but this is a different Geno than two years ago and Neal isn't a useless Ukranian).

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:37 PM
  #123
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Before everyone comes out to sound their horn on this, can we just agree that EVERYONE made the Neal/Malone connection, repeatedly and vociferously ?
Yes, but I made it first . . .

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:37 PM
  #124
stefanh
Registered User
 
stefanh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 1,303
vCash: 500
Was it just me or did Geno go into full playmaker mode this game with Neal going the way he did... His passing looked super crisp to me, maybe we just take these things for granted sometimes but I loved seing that part of his game.

stefanh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2011, 11:41 PM
  #125
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Yeah, this.

People have said Neal would work best with Malkin, and I don't disagree. I think if you put good players with good players, you're going to get results.

I do however think that Neal is more of a north-south guy, as is Sid. Both play a grind it out style. I'd like to see what it looks like.
I don't think ANYONE disagrees that Neal would look good with Sid. BUT, here's the question:

Which two lines, as a tandem, would scare you more as an opposing coach:

Kunitz-Sid-Neal
Sully-Geno-TK

OR

Kunitz-Sid-TK (Sully)
Sully (TK)-Geno-Neal

As I noted for WVP, I think you lose more by subbing TK for Neal with Malkin than you gain by having Neal instead of TK (or Sully or Duper) with Sid.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.