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2 Leafs trades not involving Komisarek :O

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:58 AM
  #1
Maria Sharapova
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2 Leafs trades not involving Komisarek :O

Trade 1
Phoniex trades:
Kyle Turris

Toronto trades:
Tyler Bozak
Jesse Blacker

Toronto does this in hopes that Turris continues progressing and his contract demands are really just to force a trade out of the desert.

Phoneix does this to receive a return for Turris seeing as he doesn't seem to want to sign there. They get a replacement for Turris in Bozak who is still a suitable 3rd line center as well as a interesting defenseman prospect in Blacker

Trade 2
Ottawa trades:
Jason Spezza

Toronto trades:
Nazem Kadri
Keith Aulie
2nd Round pick this year

Toronto does it to receive a legitimate number 1 center to play with Kessel

Ottawa does it because they are in full rebuild they get a young offensively gifted player in Kadri as well as a big stay at home defenseman to cover for Karlsson's defensive mistakes. Not to mention a 2nd in a deep draft.

Toronto's line up

Forwards
Joffrey Lupul - Jason Spezza - Phil Kessel
Nikolai Kulemin - Kyle Turris - Mikhail Grabovski
Clarke MacArthur - Matthew Lombardi - Matt Frattin
Mike Brown - David Steckel - Colby Armstrong

Defense
Carl Gunnarsson - Dion Phaneuf (C)
John-Michael Liles - Luke Schenn
Cody Franson - Mike Komisarek

Goalies
James Reimer
Jonas Gustavsson

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:09 PM
  #2
edruga
 
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Toronto wins both. Ottawa has absolutely no reason to make that trade.

First one isnt that bad, though (given the circumstances).

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:12 PM
  #3
Maria Sharapova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edruga View Post
Toronto wins both. Ottawa has absolutely no reason to make that trade.

First one isnt that bad, though (given the circumstances).
Thanks for not just completely bashing it, what if the 2nd was made our 1st or is it a lot farther off then I think.

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:12 PM
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Just like ^^^ he said, Toronto wins both, first one is decent, second one Ottawa fans are going to laugh at us

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10-17-2011, 12:13 PM
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Phoenix might do the first trade, who knows. Ottawa definitely does not do the second.

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:14 PM
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Why trade now, everything seems to be going well, not to mention that Bozak found chemistry with Kessel and is playing way over his price tag

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:14 PM
  #7
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No from Phoenix, not close everyone thinks GMDM will crumble and give Turris his trade, he wont, not unless we get equal value back and honestly Bozak doesn't do it.

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:14 PM
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If we were to aquire Jason Spezza, I think we would need to be giving up:
Nazem Kadri
Nikolai Kulemin
1st round pick

That probably gets Murray lisping, i mean listening

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:15 PM
  #9
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As mentioned, 1st one isn't bad...

but 2nd is completly off the mark.

If Spezza is on the market, there are at least 20 teams who will beat that offer... I firmly believe for any team BUT the Leafs (due to being in division) to get Spezza price is this...

1st + A Level Prospect + Young Top 6 Forward/Top 4 Defenseman

You have an A Level Propspect + 2nd + 5/6th defenseman... just doesn't cut the mustard, any team can and will beat that offer.

For the leafs you need something like this...

1st + Kadri + Kulemin

or

2012 1st + 2013 1st + Kadri + Gunnarsson/MacArthur

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechniak View Post
No from Phoenix, not close everyone thinks GMDM will crumble and give Turris his trade, he wont, not unless we get equal value back and honestly Bozak doesn't do it.
Bozak is a better player than Turris as of now .

But yeah Phoenix won't move Turris unless they get more.

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:18 PM
  #11
Maria Sharapova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyhennig16 View Post
Just like ^^^ he said, Toronto wins both, first one is decent, second one Ottawa fans are going to laugh at us
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
As mentioned, 1st one isn't bad...

but 2nd is completly off the mark.

If Spezza is on the market, there are at least 20 teams who will beat that offer... I firmly believe for any team BUT the Leafs (due to being in division) to get Spezza price is this...

1st + A Level Prospect + Young Top 6 Forward/Top 4 Defenseman

You have an A Level Propspect + 2nd + 5/6th defenseman... just doesn't cut the mustard, any team can and will beat that offer.
Understandable he is a really good player I guess I was just being biased not liking the Senators and all. Gauged his value a lot lower then most

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Old
10-17-2011, 12:20 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Sharapova View Post
Understandable he is a really good player I guess I was just being biased not liking the Senators and all. Gauged his value a lot lower then most
Ya, the thing is, Spezza is a legit #1 center... still at least a top 20 center in the league.

Guys like that cost a pretty penny.

I honestly don't see a scenario where Spezza goes to Toronto... Doubtful Murray would trade him there + doubt Burke wants to cough up the assets Murray would want.

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:01 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
As mentioned, 1st one isn't bad...

but 2nd is completly off the mark.

If Spezza is on the market, there are at least 20 teams who will beat that offer... I firmly believe for any team BUT the Leafs (due to being in division) to get Spezza price is this...

1st + A Level Prospect + Young Top 6 Forward/Top 4 Defenseman

You have an A Level Propspect + 2nd + 5/6th defenseman... just doesn't cut the mustard, any team can and will beat that offer.

For the leafs you need something like this...

1st + Kadri + Kulemin

or

2012 1st + 2013 1st + Kadri + Gunnarsson/MacArthur
I doubt it. With that salary there are not 20 teams that can take on that salary through the cap or through cash flow.

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:03 PM
  #14
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First deal is fair...second not so much. Spezza will not be a Leaf unless Kadri and Kulemin are going the other way

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:32 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Sharapova View Post

Toronto's line up

Forwards
Joffrey Lupul - Jason Spezza - Phil Kessel
Nikolai Kulemin - Kyle Turris - Mikhail Grabovski
Clarke MacArthur - Matthew Lombardi - Matt Frattin
Mike Brown - David Steckel - Colby Armstrong

Defense
Carl Gunnarsson - Dion Phaneuf (C)
John-Michael Liles - Luke Schenn
Cody Franson - Mike Komisarek

Goalies
James Reimer
Jonas Gustavsson
Imma take a wild guess and Conolly gave Dipietro a high five, causing an offseason knee surgery

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:44 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I doubt it. With that salary there are not 20 teams that can take on that salary through the cap or through cash flow.
Completle false myth I have seen around thrown around here....

Let's run by some facts...

1- Spezza has never requested or hinted and there is absolutly 0 reason for the Senators to trade a young Jason Spezza who is under contract for another 4 years. Therefore there is 0 reason for Ottawa to trade him for less than he is worth.

2- Spezza has considerable value considering what Mike Richards brought in (Worlds top ranked prospect + blossoming top 6 powerforward) and Jeff Carter brough in (formly ranked #1 undrafted prospect + #7th overall picked top 6 forward)... It's fair to say Jason Spezza has simular value, or at least those are good bench marks to look at. Unless your offer is anything near that, no point even bringing it up. It's an immiedate dead end.

3- In this new era of the NHL, yes the cap is a concern, but real dollars are the bigger concern. The majority of Spezza's contract has been paid out. He currently has 4 years left, including this year. Assuming it's a trade deadline deal we can look at the team for being on the hook for essentially 3.5-3 years of the remaining 4.

Jason Spezza's contract has a total cap hit of 21 million over those 3 years, he is however being paid only 17 million... That is a total savings of 4 million real dollars. Contracts like that with effective players have added value, not diminished.

I think it's fair to say the way Spezza's contract is structured would actually interest more teams than it would deter.

To suggest that either (A) Spezza's value has dimished in some way because of his contract/remaining monies owed or (B) no teams are willing to take said contract or paid out the monies owed is just plain hogwash and a fabricated myth.

edit- not trying to pick on you or anything, just seen this logic/myth thrown around here a few times and felt it was neccassary to shut it down.

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Old
10-17-2011, 04:04 PM
  #17
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If I were the Leafs I would pass on both, Blacker is too much of a throw in, and Bozak is well suited for the 3rd line in Toronto, and has looked nice filling in with Kessel and Lupul.

Who knows what Ottawa would get for Spezza, I am biased, not really a fan, but I wouldn't complain if we did get him. I am still holding out hope that one day the Leafs could land Stastny, but that has been discussed ad nausem here.

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Old
10-17-2011, 04:22 PM
  #18
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How many times does this exact (or very, very similar) Spezza proposal need to be shot down before Leaf fans get the hint? You are not getting Spezza AT ALL, let alone for lowball offers like that. Let it go, Leaf fans, move on to your next #1 center pipe dream.

And, as has been stated more times than I can count, we do NOT need more D prospects.

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Old
10-17-2011, 05:16 PM
  #19
daveleaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Completle false myth I have seen around thrown around here....

Let's run by some facts...

1- Spezza has never requested or hinted and there is absolutly 0 reason for the Senators to trade a young Jason Spezza who is under contract for another 4 years. Therefore there is 0 reason for Ottawa to trade him for less than he is worth.

2- Spezza has considerable value considering what Mike Richards brought in (Worlds top ranked prospect + blossoming top 6 powerforward) and Jeff Carter brough in (formly ranked #1 undrafted prospect + #7th overall picked top 6 forward)... It's fair to say Jason Spezza has simular value, or at least those are good bench marks to look at. Unless your offer is anything near that, no point even bringing it up. It's an immiedate dead end.

3- In this new era of the NHL, yes the cap is a concern, but real dollars are the bigger concern. The majority of Spezza's contract has been paid out. He currently has 4 years left, including this year. Assuming it's a trade deadline deal we can look at the team for being on the hook for essentially 3.5-3 years of the remaining 4.

Jason Spezza's contract has a total cap hit of 21 million over those 3 years, he is however being paid only 17 million... That is a total savings of 4 million real dollars. Contracts like that with effective players have added value, not diminished.

I think it's fair to say the way Spezza's contract is structured would actually interest more teams than it would deter.

To suggest that either (A) Spezza's value has dimished in some way because of his contract/remaining monies owed or (B) no teams are willing to take said contract or paid out the monies owed is just plain hogwash and a fabricated myth.

edit- not trying to pick on you or anything, just seen this logic/myth thrown around here a few times and felt it was neccassary to shut it down.
I'm not saying he will be traded what I am saying is there won't be 20 teams lining up that will want him. You guys are creating a false market for him. Pitt, Wsh, T-Bay, SanJose, Det, Van, LA, Phi, Rangers, Islanders, Carolina, Col, Ana, Chi.....I just listed 14 teams where Spezza is not better than what they have. Spezza is paid like a first line centre so I doubt a team like Carolina or T-Bay would make a push for him.

I was referencing the fact that it was said 20 teams would make a better offer and I don't think it is the case. There may be 6-8 teams that would make a run for him and out of that maybe 4 that could afford him.

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:00 PM
  #20
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I don't wanna see Bozak go, he's realy valuable to the leafs, a good young 3rd line center who can step up and play on the top 6 when needed, and got good chemistry with the team's best scorer.

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:08 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edruga View Post
Toronto wins both. Ottawa has absolutely no reason to make that trade.

First one isnt that bad, though (given the circumstances).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Sharapova View Post
Thanks for not just completely bashing it, what if the 2nd was made our 1st or is it a lot farther off then I think.
It is no longer fun to bash lopsided leaf trades...it is just sad. We will just pat the the poster on his head, give him a lolipop and send him on his way

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:13 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria Sharapova View Post
Trade 1
Phoniex trades:
Kyle Turris

Toronto trades:
Tyler Bozak
Jesse Blacker

Toronto does this in hopes that Turris continues progressing and his contract demands are really just to force a trade out of the desert.

Phoneix does this to receive a return for Turris seeing as he doesn't seem to want to sign there. They get a replacement for Turris in Bozak who is still a suitable 3rd line center as well as a interesting defenseman prospect in Blacker

Trade 2
Ottawa trades:
Jason Spezza

Toronto trades:
Nazem Kadri
Keith Aulie
2nd Round pick this year

Toronto does it to receive a legitimate number 1 center to play with Kessel

Ottawa does it because they are in full rebuild they get a young offensively gifted player in Kadri as well as a big stay at home defenseman to cover for Karlsson's defensive mistakes. Not to mention a 2nd in a deep draft.

Toronto's line up

Forwards
Joffrey Lupul - Jason Spezza - Phil Kessel
Nikolai Kulemin - Kyle Turris - Mikhail Grabovski
Clarke MacArthur - Matthew Lombardi - Matt Frattin
Mike Brown - David Steckel - Colby Armstrong

Defense
Carl Gunnarsson - Dion Phaneuf (C)
John-Michael Liles - Luke Schenn
Cody Franson - Mike Komisarek

Goalies
James Reimer
Jonas Gustavsson
I don't think the league would be too pumped about the leafs being 7 million over the cap plus whatever Turris ends up signing for. Regardless of the fact the trades are brutal. Moving out 1.5 million and bringing in what could end up being 10 to 11 million doesn't tend to work in a cap world when you have under 200k in cap space.

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:42 PM
  #23
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Ottawa trade was quite laughable. How about Sens give up Gonchar for Schenn + 1st? That's equivalent to your Spezza deal.

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Old
10-17-2011, 06:44 PM
  #24
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"Ottawa does it because they are in full rebuild."

This seems to be the reasoning behind all Senators trades of late. However, trading your #1C doesn't always help your rebuild. Having Spezza in the lineup builds the confidence of youngsters for the sheer fact that if he's not there, they can't compete in games. Offers for Spezza cannot be fair value for both teams as there is no simply reason for the Senators to trade him at this point.

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