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Old
10-14-2011, 10:44 PM
  #26
ProstheticConscience
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Never happen. Kesler's not going anywhere.

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Old
10-14-2011, 10:54 PM
  #27
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So no deal then??

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:50 PM
  #28
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So no deal then??
No, I think Colorado is still pretty interested.

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Old
10-14-2011, 11:59 PM
  #29
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holy crap... i'd almost consider giving you getzlaf for that package rofl

if you took out boyes and added a piece with value

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Old
10-15-2011, 12:05 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
holy crap... i'd almost consider giving you getzlaf for that package rofl

if you took out boyes and added a piece with value
- boyes + 2nd round pick u add like a late pick or something deal?

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Old
10-15-2011, 07:06 PM
  #31
BackGroundMusic
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
holy crap... i'd almost consider giving you getzlaf for that package rofl

if you took out boyes and added a piece with value
Seriously. That's way too much for Kesler.

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Old
10-15-2011, 08:39 PM
  #32
La Cosa Nostra
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Horrible trade.

Kesler is barely better then Roy and you add in the two best Buffalo prospects?


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Old
10-15-2011, 08:40 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Horrible trade.

Kesler is barely better then Roy and you add in the two best Buffalo prospects?

Kesler is a lot better than Roy. Neither team does this though. Too much going to Vancouver, and this does not make Vancouver better this year.

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Old
10-15-2011, 08:42 PM
  #34
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Well Roy is no Kesler on the defensive side, but he's probably better than Kesler from an offensive standpoint.

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Old
10-15-2011, 08:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
Seriously. That's way too much for Kesler.
And I could string together a whole bunch of assets the Sabres don't need and say that's too much for Myers.

Asset value isn't added based on quantity. The Canucks would never make this trade because they aren't going to downgrade in a key position to pick up a bunch more salary. Boyes is worthless to the Canucks. He's no better than the plethora of decent 2nd line wingers they already have - and all come at close to half the price Boyes does. His inclusion here just brings the entire value down.

Roy is a nice center, but a downgrade from Kesler. He doesn't bring the same tools that we need from Kesler - a top end goal scoring center who's one of the best defensive forwards in the game. Why do we swap that for Roy when we already have a better version of him in Henrik?

Kassian's a decent prospect, but not needed, especially at that price.

As a Canuck fan, I'd offer you Bieska, Raymond, Schroeder, Lapierre and a 1st round pick for Myers. Sounds like way too much for just Myers though - does that mean that it's worth it for the Sabres?

If the Canucks are moving Kesler, they need to get back another impact player in a position of need. The only player that makes any sense for is Myers - which the Sabres don't do, and even for Vancouver, they'd need more back in return to move their team MVP.

No deal out there makes any sense for Kesler. What the Canucks would want in return, no team would give up - just like Myers from Buffalo... Making it pretty much useless to bring up either player in trade discussions.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:11 PM
  #36
is the answer jesus
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Horrible trade.

Kesler is barely better then Roy and you add in the two best Buffalo prospects?

The OP may be overpayment, but Roy isn't anywhere near the player Kesler is. Vancouver would be crazy to move him.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:47 PM
  #37
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Want Kesler? Start with Myers++ and even then I doubt the Sabres have the assets. Kesler is the heart and soul of the Canucks and won't be traded unless something ridiculous is coming the Canucks way.
want myerz!?!?!?start with both sedinz and 100 draft pickz and all ur prospectz then 100 more draft pickz. even then probably hang up phone, not enough overpaymetnz. also lungo sucks and miller is way bettur.

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Old
10-15-2011, 10:48 PM
  #38
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no reason for either team to do this. value is there tho

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Old
10-16-2011, 09:51 AM
  #39
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Gonna have to say Roy is at least as good as Kesler, probably better. Sorry, conventional wisdom is wrong on this one. Amazing what one 40 goal season can do for a guys rep.

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Old
10-16-2011, 10:18 AM
  #40
La Cosa Nostra
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
The OP may be overpayment, but Roy isn't anywhere near the player Kesler is. Vancouver would be crazy to move him.
Yeah ok.

Last 4 Seasons (07-08 to 10-11)

Derek Roy:
275 GP-96G-159A-255P .92 PPG

Ryan Kesler:
326 GP-113G-131A-244P .75 PPG

And Roy isn't close to Kesler?

Kesler is by far one of the most overrated players out there, this guy plays behind 2 Art Ross Winners and Roy handily outproduces him.

And I'm not even bringing contract in here, which Roy's is far better.

And before OMG SELKE, Roy is a great 2 way center and PK'er, so any difference is negligent in that aspect.

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Old
10-16-2011, 11:12 AM
  #41
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Roy is good offensively but Kesler is far more valuable to a team. Many players can bring what Roy does. Can't say the same for Kesler.

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Old
10-16-2011, 11:49 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Stamshot View Post
LOL TITLE FAIL... My bad guys.
To Vancouver:

Derek Roy
Brad Boyes
Zack Kassian
Joel Armia

To Buffalo:

Ryan Kesler
Mikael Samuelsson

Random idea, just wanted some thoughts. Not ever gunna happen.
Wow! You are suggesting Buffalo would be willing to offer those four players for Samuelsson and then PLUS take on a $5 million dollar per year salary dump in Kesler?

I know Samuelsson is a pretty valuable player but I think the Sabres would bock at having to absorb another $5 million in salary just because the Canucks want to dump Kesler.

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Old
10-16-2011, 11:55 AM
  #43
deckercky
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Yeah ok.

Last 4 Seasons (07-08 to 10-11)

Derek Roy:
275 GP-96G-159A-255P .92 PPG

Ryan Kesler:
326 GP-113G-131A-244P .75 PPG

And Roy isn't close to Kesler?

Kesler is by far one of the most overrated players out there, this guy plays behind 2 Art Ross Winners and Roy handily outproduces him.

And I'm not even bringing contract in here, which Roy's is far better.

And before OMG SELKE, Roy is a great 2 way center and PK'er, so any difference is negligent in that aspect.
Amazing how if you select years to include a year before Ryan Kesler broke out offensively, which happens to be Roys best offensive year, it looks like Roy is a much more offensive player.

Looking at past 3 seasons, Roy is 0.88 ppg and Kesler is 0.84 ppg. Kesler broke out offensively midway through that season when Sundin joined the Canucks.

Looking at the past 2 seasons, their ppg is essentially identical.

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
And Roy isn't close to Kesler?
No, he's not. You had to cherry pick and go back exactly 4 years to include a season where Kesler was still a third line center (37p) and the season where Roy has his best statistical year (81p).

Kesler has been much better than Roy in recent memory. Less injury prone, 2 years younger, better defensive play, better goal scorer, better playoff numbers, and better in the faceoff circle - a skill that Roy is average at best in.

I'm not even saying that Roy is bad because he's clearly not. He's a serviceable #1 playmaking center who is coming off a major injury. The problem is, as NFITO already said, we already have a much better version of him in Henrik Sedin. Ryan Kesler's overall package is a much better bit for Vancouver than Derek Roy's, even ignoring any differences in ability.

Now add to all of that the fact that Roy is signed for only 2 more years and Kesler is locked in at a very attractive cap hit for another 5 and it should be obvious which player has more value.

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Old
10-16-2011, 01:36 PM
  #45
deckercky
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Yeah....Roy puts up marginally more points, and is very good defensively, but he's not Selke quality defensively and doesn't bring the physicality and leadership Kesler does. Roy is awesome, but Kesler is better.

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Old
10-16-2011, 07:46 PM
  #46
HarryNealesGarden
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Amazing how if you select years to include a year before Ryan Kesler broke out offensively, which happens to be Roys best offensive year, it looks like Roy is a much more offensive player.

Looking at past 3 seasons, Roy is 0.88 ppg and Kesler is 0.84 ppg. Kesler broke out offensively midway through that season when Sundin joined the Canucks.

Looking at the past 2 seasons, their ppg is essentially identical.
........ right.

Kesler is elite defensively, but Roy is pretty damn solid in his own end too. And has a better contract (albeit for fewer years).

Kesler isn't worth Roy plus 2 of Buffalo's 3 best prospects. 1, sure. Not both.

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Old
10-16-2011, 07:56 PM
  #47
HarryNealesGarden
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Also, (and take a deep breath before you flame the heck out of me, Canucks fans) Kesler has never been asked to carry the offensive load in Vancouver. He's never been a #1 center. Buffalo can't trade their best center and 2nd-best forward plus gut the farm for a guy who's never proved he can carry a team.

I'm not saying Kesler COULDN'T, just that it would be a pretty huge gamble. One likely not worth taking at this point in time.

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Old
10-16-2011, 08:00 PM
  #48
La Cosa Nostra
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
No, he's not. You had to cherry pick and go back exactly 4 years to include a season where Kesler was still a third line center (37p) and the season where Roy has his best statistical year (81p).

Kesler has been much better than Roy in recent memory. Less injury prone, 2 years younger, better defensive play, better goal scorer, better playoff numbers, and better in the faceoff circle - a skill that Roy is average at best in.
Roy is 1 year, 3 month older then Kesler, so I don't see your 2 year difference.

Oh yeah, PS those so called cherry picked stats, in 07-08 when Kesler was just a "third line center", he still played 19:03 a game which ironically was tied for 2nd on the Canuck for Forwards TOI

And you want to call me out on cherry picked stats LOL.

Also, Roy's career goals per game is higher then Kesler yet Kesler is the better goal scorer

And no, Kesler hasn't been so much better then Roy, last season when Roy got hurt he was at a PPG and an absolute two way force.

Just look at the stats, Roy has more career goals,career points,career PPG, and a better +/-.I just debunked your "third line center" myth, when he was tied with Daniel Sedin for TOI.

You can keep Kesler, I wouldn't trade either Kassian or Armia to upgrade marginally at center.

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Old
10-16-2011, 10:21 PM
  #49
CloutierForVezina
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Roy is 1 year, 3 month older then Kesler, so I don't see your 2 year difference.
He was eligible 2 draft years earlier. Call it 2 years, call it 1 year, call it 1 year 3 months - you're just splitting hairs. Kesler, at the moment, is younger and better than Roy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Oh yeah, PS those so called cherry picked stats, in 07-08 when Kesler was just a "third line center", he still played 19:03 a game which ironically was tied for 2nd on the Canuck for Forwards TOI
Why do you think he played so much? Maybe because he led the forwards on his team in PK time?

Being a 3rd line center and being the designated shutdown man does not preclude you from playing big minutes.

Look at Malhotra last year on the Canucks, he played over 16 minutes a game. Look at Jordan Staal in any year, he plays between 19-20 minutes a game even when Malkin and Crosby are fully healthy.

Hell, look at Vancouver's 2nd line center right now. Hodgson is only getting ~15 minutes a night, does that magically make him not our second line center?

Arguing TOI without context just makes you look stupid. Kesler was our third line center that year. He played so much because he was relied on heavily for his defensive play. He was not given top-6 line mates and was in charge of shutting people down, not putting in the points.

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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
And you want to call me out on cherry picked stats LOL.
Yes, I do. You did it again by quoting TOI without looking at any of the context.

"LOL" indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Also, Roy's career goals per game is higher then Kesler yet Kesler is the better goal scorer
Again, you want to go back to 2005-2008 where Kesler wasn't very good offensively? A frequent poster on the Canucks board repeatedly said at the time that his wrist shot couldn't break a pane of glass. His assessment was pretty accurate at the time.

You know what Kesler did? He spent an entire summer working on his shot and now he has an absolute laser. He also hit his offensive stride much later than most.

You're cherry picking irrelevant stats at this point. Kesler has a 40G season under his belt, finishing 4th in the entire league, Roy's best season was 32G, finishing tied for 20th place in the league.

To argue that Roy is, currently, a better goal scorer than Kesler is to essentially jam your fingers in your ears and yell as loud as you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
And no, Kesler hasn't been so much better then Roy, last season when Roy got hurt he was at a PPG and an absolute two way force.
I love when people make it sounds like injuries make players more valuable. Not only do players sitting in the press box contribute absolutely nothing to their team, small sample sizes are small.

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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
Just look at the stats, Roy has more career goals,career points,career PPG, and a better +/-.I just debunked your "third line center" myth, when he was tied with Daniel Sedin for TOI.
You didn't debunk anything. Kesler got more TOI because we needed him to play a shutdown role.

Roy had a better start to his career and was brought into the NHL as a competent NHL top-6 forward. Kesler was brought in as a 3rd/4th line grinder and slowly worked his way into one of the elite two-way centers he is today. The Kesler that put up 23 points in 2005-2006 has no relevance to the Kesler you see on the ice today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
You can keep Kesler, I wouldn't trade either Kassian or Armia to upgrade marginally at center.
That's fine. I never suggested Buffalo make this deal and I wouldn't downgrade Kesler to a player whose skillset is redundant on the Canucks to pick up two prospects that don't help us win right this moment.

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Old
10-16-2011, 10:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
want myerz!?!?!?start with both sedinz and 100 draft pickz and all ur prospectz then 100 more draft pickz. even then probably hang up phone, not enough overpaymetnz. also lungo sucks and miller is way bettur.
So back to back Art Ross winners aren't enough for a 40 point defenceman Funny thing is the goalie who "sucks" took his team to game 7 of the finals, a place the Sabres haven't reached in franchise history.

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