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The "Fire Arniel" Thread

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Old
10-16-2011, 11:58 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by MFRONE View Post
Calling for Ruth? Guy is probably the 4th callup from Springfield at 100%
Nobody from Moore or Goloubef play physical what we need. Ruth is a physical d-man. Do you wait Holden calling and do you saw his play the last season? But Ruth is injured.

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10-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #77
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Coming from a guy that was quick to jump onboard with firing Gallant, MacLean and Hitchcock, its too early for this.

WIth Gallant and Hitch, the team looked to shut it down completely or tune them out, with MacLean it was obvious mismangement. I don't think we are at the point with Arniel where this team isn't still listening to an extent, Yes we are losing games, but we haven't been completely out of them yet and I know many don't want to hear this but its early.

But just because its early, that makes it more difficult sleding the rest of the season, can this team crawl out of this hole? We will see.

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #78
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Clearly something is all balled up. There is no reason I can think of that what looks like a competitive roster is playing like they all really want Yakupov as a teammate.
There is something very wrong with this team. We could very well have the worst team in the league, while spending this much.

I think we'll get saved, somewhat, when we start facing some of the East team(s). Some of our talent will get tend to outscore some of the other teams. That's not to say we're a good team, we just have some skill. We might even start to feel good about ourselves and win despite the poor coaching. Yes, poor coaching.

Now I'm not sure what you are hinting at. However, with the number of players saying how comfortable they are here... Well maybe it's time to make them uncomfortable.

What could ultimately have been our two biggest mistakes..

1. Making Nash the captain.
2. Extending Nash.

You have an inferior Stars team that has every reason to get down on themselves, but they made us look like a bunch of chumps, when we desperately needed a win. Teams are withstanding our pushes, extending the game out, and we just fade in the 3rd. It's not conditioning. We have a real compete issue. We have real structural issues. We have people (mostly on defense) that aren't in roles they need to be.

What do you do now? You've already spent the money. They are here for the next few years. You can't start monkeying around with the leadership group. Any new coach that comes in is going to have to motivate the leadership group.

Fun, fun.

Hopefully they collectively decide they don't like to lose.

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10-16-2011, 12:08 PM
  #79
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The mistakes the D was making with the three back door goals yesterday was crazy, and they weren't even all Russell's fault.

The team is being built towards a more up tempo style and this seems to have led to the D being now in a position that they are still not able to play that style of game, but are also struggling defensively.

Getting Wiz in will clearly help. Not only will it get him out on the ice to help, but probably even more importantly it bumps every other D-man down one slot and one of the current D-men right out of the lineup. It would be impossible for this not to help given the current state of things.

This has been said over and over again, but why is Russell out there?? He is not able to contribute significantly offensively and he struggles defensively due to his size. He does occasionally lug the puck up the ice but rarely does a good offensive chance result.

There is something odd with the Holden situation as well. Generally, it seemed most felt he played quite well when called up early last season. I seem to remember him logging very heavy minutes, yet when the season turned south after the trade deadline he was never called back up. He had 25 points and was a plus player on a pretty bad Springfield team last year yet he really never seemed to be in contention for a lineup spot this year.

They really needed the win against Colorado and last night in Dallas. A couple wins would do wonders for this team and hopefully get them rolling. Unfortunately now the screws are tightened even more and the pressure dialed up, a situation our CBJ haven't always excelled at. I hope they can get a few bounces going their way on Tuesday and snap this ridiculous streak

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post

You have an inferior Stars team that has every reason to get down on themselves, but they made us look like a bunch of chumps, when we desperately needed a win. Teams are withstanding our pushes, extending the game out, and we just fade in the 3rd. It's not conditioning. We have a real compete issue. We have real structural issues. We have people (mostly on defense) that aren't in roles they need to be.
An inferior Stars team? that team finished with 15 points more than the Jackets last year and is currently has 8 points in 5 games this year which is good enough for a 1st place tie with the Red Wings.

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:21 PM
  #81
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I still like Arniel and his coaching style. So we aren't winning...yet. We have been close in every game, and we're bound to get it our first. I think that first win will start to turn things around, but we just need to be patient until then. Our team will come together as a whole soon enough, there have been big changes since last year on our roster, and we can't expect perfect results right away.

We are five games in, there are 82 games in a season. Do you see what I did there? We can turn this season around in the next few games from where we are, especially with Wiz being closer to being back. When he gets back I expect a huge change. The PP will have a much better player running the point, our defense will have a more elite leader on it, and we will look better.

Look on the plus side of this though, Mason is looking very good. Three of four goals last night there was nothing he could do about (cross-crease one-timers), and he's been very good, especially compared to the last few years. I still believe that Mase can lead us.

Also, our top line is looking very good. Prospal and Nash have been just dominating, and I think Carter is ready to start scoring goals, he's had the chances, he'll bury one here soon. All we need is another line to score, clearly. But it's not like our lines don't have the ability to score, so it will happen.

Looking at it all, I don't want Arniel gone, I think he is doing fine, we will get a win here soon, we just need to be a little more patient.

P.S. we aren't the worst team in the league right now, there's always Winnipeg (0-3-0)

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I'd like to hear more about this. Links/sources if it's a fact - names and explanations/evidence if it's an opinion.
This is just my opinion, DSL. I think it is a logical conclusion when the facts are laid out and from observation of watching the team. The players are not competing. They have the talent. They've been conditioned, they've been coached. At what point do we admit that the problem is not who is leading the players but the players themselves?? That's where I'm at now.

Perhaps the worst thing to happen was making the playoffs and a couple got it into their head that they are bigger than the game. If so, we need to send a message quickly that, no, you are not.

OR we can keep firing coaches.


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Originally Posted by jktsfan View Post
Please do tell. Otherwise, your posts are wasting my time.
Really?? Did you really write this??

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:28 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
There is something very wrong with this team. We could very well have the worst team in the league, while spending this much.

I think we'll get saved, somewhat, when we start facing some of the East team(s). Some of our talent will get tend to outscore some of the other teams. That's not to say we're a good team, we just have some skill. We might even start to feel good about ourselves and win despite the poor coaching. Yes, poor coaching.

Now I'm not sure what you are hinting at. However, with the number of players saying how comfortable they are here... Well maybe it's time to make them uncomfortable.

What could ultimately have been our two biggest mistakes..

1. Making Nash the captain.
2. Extending Nash.

You have an inferior Stars team that has every reason to get down on themselves, but they made us look like a bunch of chumps, when we desperately needed a win. Teams are withstanding our pushes, extending the game out, and we just fade in the 3rd. It's not conditioning. We have a real compete issue. We have real structural issues. We have people (mostly on defense) that aren't in roles they need to be.

What do you do now? You've already spent the money. They are here for the next few years. You can't start monkeying around with the leadership group. Any new coach that comes in is going to have to motivate the leadership group.

Fun, fun.

Hopefully they collectively decide they don't like to lose.
I'm not hinting at anything. Someone posted there is a "cancer" in the locker room. I'm just observing that this team is the hockey equivalent of the Browns or Bengals. There IS a reason, and I don't think it's talent. At this stage I'm just trying to figure it out. Something is clearly rotten in Denmark and it has been rotting for 11 years.

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:41 PM
  #84
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There's no way to excuse or accept an 0-4-1 start to the season, but what's much more revealing to me is that one (1) regulation win in the last 27 games. It isn't *this* year's problem. The problem from last year is still the problem this year. There have been significant upgrades in talent and skill (even without Wiz in the lineup). The majority of the players are at points in their careers when they should be making strides forward (i.e., NOT suffering declining performance due to age). I agree with the position that there are structural, systematic problems. Those problems probably aren't all coaching-related. I tend to think they go far higher in the organization, perhaps all the way to ownership. However, given the prolonged slump bridging seasons and rosters, and the obvious lack of organization and discipline on the ice, coaching looks like a good place to start when looking for answers this time around.

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Old
10-16-2011, 12:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
I'm not hinting at anything. Someone posted there is a "cancer" in the locker room. I'm just observing that this team is the hockey equivalent of the Browns or Bengals. There IS a reason, and I don't think it's talent. At this stage I'm just trying to figure it out. Something is clearly rotten in Denmark and it has been rotting for 11 years.
Thanks for the clarification, didn't know where you were going with it.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-16-2011 at 01:55 PM.
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Old
10-16-2011, 01:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 5StringBuzz View Post
There's no way to excuse or accept an 0-4-1 start to the season, but what's much more revealing to me is that one (1) regulation win in the last 27 games. It isn't *this* year's problem. The problem from last year is still the problem this year. There have been significant upgrades in talent and skill (even without Wiz in the lineup). The majority of the players are at points in their careers when they should be making strides forward (i.e., NOT suffering declining performance due to age). I agree with the position that there are structural, systematic problems. Those problems probably aren't all coaching-related. I tend to think they go far higher in the organization, perhaps all the way to ownership. However, given the prolonged slump bridging seasons and rosters, and the obvious lack of organization and discipline on the ice, coaching looks like a good place to start when looking for answers this time around.
Could it be that Arniel's new AHL-tested system gained him success early in the season, but once the other NHL coaches figured out how to beat his system... well, that was about 27 games ago. it's not unlike the trajectory Steve Mason's career has taken.

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Old
10-16-2011, 02:00 PM
  #87
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It's a good thing Arniel decided he was too cool to work with Commodore, as he's exactly the type of defenseman we need at this point.
This made me think and I'm sure it's not the point you were going after but maybe a valid one...

Commodore was popular in the room. He took it upon himself to make team dinners and things like that. Some were critical of his influence but what is the value of someone like that on a team who will step up and do the very necessary aspect of team bonding?

I think it's pretty significant and maybe that's what we are missing.

At the risk of being stoned to death at the mention of his name, we have had others who were "father" type figures to the team and they were also abruptly removed. When that absence is not filled, how do you expect to create chemistry/brotherhood? How successful do we expect them to be without it?

Just thinking out loud and trying to figure this mess out. We're so close to being good. I think it's something obvious and simple. Again, a disease that needs a cure. Quickly.

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Old
10-16-2011, 02:07 PM
  #88
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Lyle Odelein did it. Tyler Wright did it. Even Adam Foote, the first two years when he actually WANTED to be here, did it. Maybe instead of a "cancer" in the room, perhaps we have been suffering from a "deficiency" in the room? If so, is that deficiency not having a "big brother" or "leadership."

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Old
10-16-2011, 02:27 PM
  #89
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I'm not hinting at anything. Someone posted there is a "cancer" in the locker room. I'm just observing that this team is the hockey equivalent of the Browns or Bengals. There IS a reason, and I don't think it's talent. At this stage I'm just trying to figure it out. Something is clearly rotten in Denmark and it has been rotting for 11 years.
I agree!

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Old
10-16-2011, 02:30 PM
  #90
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Lyle Odelein did it. Tyler Wright did it. Even Adam Foote, the first two years when he actually WANTED to be here, did it. Maybe instead of a "cancer" in the room, perhaps we have been suffering from a "deficiency" in the room? If so, is that deficiency not having a "big brother" or "leadership."
I also agree with this caveat, Clark was supposed to give leadership, but his skills were on the decline. Moreau was to provide leadership, but he too was in decline. Perhaps we need someone with leadership skills and a high skill level. Someone who will bring with room together and follow him. I don't know who would be available, but I think that this is what the team is missing.

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Old
10-16-2011, 02:52 PM
  #91
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Now is a really lousy time to hire a new coach. Most likely, we'd get "a year with Claude" all over again. An uptick in energy and playing, followed by an off season search.
So let Arniel stay.

We have lost our games, so far, by different reasons. And so far, we have played teams which are playing well.

The biggest plus last night was that THE REASON WASN'T MASON.
It was our PK and defense. The PK can be fixed and The Wiz is on the way.

The one constant problem, however, is our third period play. We're scrambling and pushing. To me it looks like a psychological & conditioning thing. Fortunately, I think that's easier to cure than the alleged lack of coaching.


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10-16-2011, 03:16 PM
  #92
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Not yet but the rope is getting shorter.

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Old
10-16-2011, 03:18 PM
  #93
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I've thought about this a bit; I'd prefer to stay with Arniel. I believe there is enough talent on this team to compete. I think there is little to be gained from replacing him. If the team turns it around in the next few games, it will be tough but they do have some chance to recover. I'm not really expecting them to recover, but they might.
Allowing Howson and Arniel the opportunity to recover the season also has a chance to show some stability.


If they don't recover, well then I'd expect a team that ends up with one of the worst 2-3 records in the league coming into a really good draft, one that supposedly is right there with 2003 and 2008. The CBJ screwed up both of those team making drafts. A top pick makes it likely they wouldn't screw this one up.

Another major bonus would be that if they allowed Arniel and Howson to finish the season and they don't get it done, then the day the season ends, let them both go, hire a GM who day one gets to hire his own coach. The one caveat is since they built a roster for Arniel's offensive style, they need to hire a GM who believes in an aggressive offensive vision. If not, then we'll see a repeat of the demise of Hitch again. Hitch wanted a big, tough grinding team with some skill, similar to Boston, Calgary or maybe Philly. Howson was getting players like who are smaller, fast and skilled. That created a mess. Now it's a smaller, faster skilled roster and more importantly a smaller, faster pipeline as well. More like Washington, Edmonton and Vancouver.

Gotta get everyone on the same page for once.

*I'm thinking this is an ownership problem, constantly picking mismatches.

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10-16-2011, 03:23 PM
  #94
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I don't know that firing the coach after 5 games is a great idea, but I haven't been impressed with the effort I've seen.

Maybe take a new tact with the players? Make them accountable - they need to earn those big paychecks that most of them are making.

The biggest things to keep in mind: Even with Wisniewski, most of us were worried about our defense corps. Thus far, without Wisniewski, our defense has been absolutely atrocious - it won't get a ton better when he gets back, but you can't really blame the coach when he doesn't have his full lineup at his disposal. Secondly, this is a team that, in general, hasn't played a ton together. Chemistry takes time - this is likely the reason for our scoring/powerplay/defensive zone woes. Guys have to get to know each other's tendencies, and it takes time.

Certainly, I would love to see more "umph" from the team. A guy like Rick Nash can go a long way in calling people out and getting more out of them - while that is the coach's job, it's not solely the coach's job.

If I were Arniel, I might also try mixing up the lines. Carter/Nash/Prospal has worked, but maybe it's time to share their mojo with some of the other guys to spread the wealth? I like the defense pair of Methot/Martinek, but they haven't been totally effective - split them up. Take Russell out of the lineup, for God's sake ... I don't care who has the "brighter future" anymore, put the guy in there that deserves to play. If it's Johnson, Holden, Ruth ... whoever, if we want results now, create the results now.

It's too early to string up the coach yet. Has firing the coach during the middle of the season ever helped us in the past?

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10-16-2011, 03:26 PM
  #95
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To Leek's point ...

If we finish at the bottom again and wind up with a top-5 pick, Ryan Murray could very well be the type of player that turns this franchise around. Think Drew Doughty, but with a little less offense, better defense, and captain written all over him. That's just one of the players that would be available with a high pick.

Not that I'm wanting to see this happen ... we need the playoffs like Chevy needed a bailout.

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10-16-2011, 03:27 PM
  #96
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Arniel putting his foot down at practice this morning as many suspected he would. Will the boys take this to heart, or let it slide off of them?

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-practice.html

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10-16-2011, 03:29 PM
  #97
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Arniel putting his foot down at practice this morning as many suspected he would. Will the boys take this to heart, or let it slide off of them?

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-practice.html
I appreciate the 60 minute bag skate.

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10-16-2011, 03:32 PM
  #98
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Not ready to panic yet.

I believe Nashville, either last season or the previous season started out similarly, then went on a tear.

Teams go through ups and downs throughout the season, and the Jackets managed to pick a time to have a bad stretch when it is very visible. Have an 0-4-1 stretch, mid-season, and everyone just says "meh, just a little slump". I believe Detroit had an 1-11 stretch when Lidstrom was injured, and they still made the play-offs. We are missing a few key personnel.

The key will be what happens from here on out.

Not ready to send anyone packing just yet.

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10-16-2011, 04:36 PM
  #99
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Really?? Did you really write this??
yes. I absolutely wrote it. I'll admit that I do not come on here every single day so perhaps you have eluded elsewhere to who the veteran cancer in the room is but all I see are thinly veiled remarks about SOMEONE being the cancer but you not tightening your belt and stating just who this cancer is.

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10-16-2011, 04:46 PM
  #100
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Bag skate? Will it work?



http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...-practice.html

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