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Old
10-25-2011, 11:35 AM
  #101
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It's not so much the forwards we have, as the ones we don't. I guess that's what our retool is all about, trying to generate 3-4 players who are genuine scoring threats in the NHL.

Until we have those guys, or he proves he belongs among them, Regin is going to be slotted into a scoring role to show what he can do.

Given our lack of depth, it's going to be tough for any other player to displace him, which is not to say he's going to be regarded the same way going forward.

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10-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #102
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I honestly think that Regin's career is on the ropes... Shoulder problems have a nasty habit of never going away.

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10-25-2011, 03:27 PM
  #103
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I disagree completely with you thinking Greening should be on the 4th line or the 13th forward. He has shown the complete opposite of that since he came up last year and hasn't done anything but produce.

I also don't really think its "fairweather" fans that are giving up on Regin...they are just a little short sighted and seem to always want their favorite prospect up right away.

Why do so many people take shots at the other fans on this board?
A shot? .... A bunch of fans think that Regin is now disposable because he was injured, despite his solid play to start the year; that is the very definition of 'fairweather fan'.

Has Greening ever produced an NHL point without Spezza's name attached to it?

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10-25-2011, 03:33 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
A shot? .... A bunch of fans think that Regin is now disposable because he was injured, despite his solid play to start the year; that is the very definition of 'fairweather fan'.

Has Greening ever produced an NHL point without Spezza's name attached to it?
For the record I'm a big fan of Regin, but if his shoulder keeps him off the ice then he's no good to the team and it would be understandable if the team gives up on him.
Things are not looking good for him because both times his shoulder acted up it didn't take much.

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10-25-2011, 03:35 PM
  #105
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For the record I'm a big fan of Regin, but if his shoulder keeps him off the ice then he's no good to the team and it would be understandable if the team gives up on him.
Things are not looking good for him because both times his shoulder acted up it didn't take much.
same goes for alfie i guess?

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10-25-2011, 03:44 PM
  #106
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same goes for alfie i guess?
Are we talking a 1997-2000 Alfie, when he missed an everage of just over 25 games per year, or a modern-day Alfie?

There are some people on here who wanted Regin gone before this season because they said he just wasn't good enough. Then, he plays like a bonafide top 6 forward and we hear nothing. Now he has missed THREE GAMES and they want him gone again.


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10-25-2011, 03:53 PM
  #107
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same goes for alfie i guess?
I don't get it. Alfie is a veteran who doesn't have to prove anything.

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10-25-2011, 03:59 PM
  #108
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I don't get it. Alfie is a veteran who doesn't have to prove anything.
Who was at one point a young player who played 55, 58 & 57 games in his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons... as fans were calling into radio shows asking for him to be traded. The same way that Winnepeg dumped Selanne after his injuries for Kilger & Tverdovsky.

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10-25-2011, 04:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Who was at one point a young player who played 55, 58 & 57 games in his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons... as fans were calling into radio shows asking for him to be traded. The same way that Winnepeg dumped Selanne after his injuries for Kilger & Tverdovsky.
I wasn't in Canada back then so I didn't know about that. Point taken, but the concerns remain valid: Regin's shoulder is going to be an issue going forward.

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10-25-2011, 04:55 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Who was at one point a young player who played 55, 58 & 57 games in his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons... as fans were calling into radio shows asking for him to be traded. The same way that Winnepeg dumped Selanne after his injuries for Kilger & Tverdovsky.
There's a slight difference.

In that time Alfredsson was playing great two-way hockey and putting up 45, 33 and 59 points respectively in each of those seasons (as well as two seasons of 71 and 61 points prior.)

Regin has put up 51 points in 146 games.

Regin might not be worth trading away yet until we can see where he really stands as a player, but it's far from being a "fairweather fan" to not want him considering he has literally done nothing for our team to date aside from a nice playoff performance.

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10-25-2011, 05:17 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
A shot? .... A bunch of fans think that Regin is now disposable because he was injured, despite his solid play to start the year; that is the very definition of 'fairweather fan'.

Has Greening ever produced an NHL point without Spezza's name attached to it?
While I agree with you regarding Regin I don`t agree with your statement that seems to say Greening is nothing without Spezza. I'm sure Greening has scored without Spezza being involved, he hasn't always played with Spezza but I would argue it the other way around. I think he compliments Spezza's game & so far I don't see Spezza setting Greening up a lot. Let`s not forget that Greening started last season on Bingo`s 4th line & ended the season on Ottawa`s first line. He moved up 8 lines in one yr & has started this season again on the 1st line, he deserves a lot of credit for that & it has more to do with his work ethic, speed & strength than anything Spezza has done for him.

I`ve seen Greening set Spezza up more often than Spezza setting Greening up & seen Greening standing in front of the net screening the goalie most of the time. He does the dirty work in the corners, in front of the net & I would argue covers defensively against Spezza`s constant give aways. So many here think Greening belongs on the 4th line yet coaches have Greening on the 1st line & not Butler any more, who would have guessed that.

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10-25-2011, 05:32 PM
  #112
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It should also be noted that there are plenty of players who haven't done anything while playing alongside Spezza.

Greening has been awesome this year and has been the reason that the line has generated scoring chances (on multiple occasions). Maclean certainly agrees with that assessment because he won't play him anywhere but the Top 6.

If you're attempting to pump Regin's tires, I would leave Greening's name out of the argument because it's not helping.

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10-26-2011, 01:48 PM
  #113
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James Gordon (Citizen) says its serious and surgery might be required... horrible luck.

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10-26-2011, 01:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
James Gordon (Citizen) says its serious and surgery might be required... horrible luck.
Not too surprising when you consider that he injured himself on nothing plays: his shoulder is probably really messed up.

God damn it; this really blows...

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10-26-2011, 02:31 PM
  #115
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There's a slight difference.

In that time Alfredsson was playing great two-way hockey and putting up 45, 33 and 59 points respectively in each of those seasons (as well as two seasons of 71 and 61 points prior.)

Regin has put up 51 points in 146 games.

Regin might not be worth trading away yet until we can see where he really stands as a player, but it's far from being a "fairweather fan" to not want him considering he has literally done nothing for our team to date aside from a nice playoff performance.

Zibanejad: nowhere near an offensive player in the NHL right now.
DaCosta, Filatov, Butler: haven't proven to be any more skilled or productive than Regin, but are a whole lot less reliable defensively.

Greening, Foligno, Smith, Neil, Konopka, Winchester, etc: clearly nowhere near as talented as Regin or anybody listed above.

He's in a position to get a lot of ice time, because this coaching staff trusts him a lot. It might take a long time before enough players surpass that in the coaching staffs eyes.

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While I agree with you regarding Regin I don`t agree with your statement that seems to say Greening is nothing without Spezza. I'm sure Greening has scored without Spezza being involved, he hasn't always played with Spezza but I would argue it the other way around. I think he compliments Spezza's game & so far I don't see Spezza setting Greening up a lot. Let`s not forget that Greening started last season on Bingo`s 4th line & ended the season on Ottawa`s first line. He moved up 8 lines in one yr & has started this season again on the 1st line, he deserves a lot of credit for that & it has more to do with his work ethic, speed & strength than anything Spezza has done for him.

I`ve seen Greening set Spezza up more often than Spezza setting Greening up & seen Greening standing in front of the net screening the goalie most of the time. He does the dirty work in the corners, in front of the net & I would argue covers defensively against Spezza`s constant give aways. So many here think Greening belongs on the 4th line yet coaches have Greening on the 1st line & not Butler any more, who would have guessed that.
Greening's a very hard worker and does a lot of dirty work, but he's not a very skilled player and his history as an offensive player in every league he's ever been in is sketchy.

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10-26-2011, 03:06 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Greening's a very hard worker and does a lot of dirty work, but he's not a very skilled player and his history as an offensive player in every league he's ever been in is sketchy.
Um...in what way? He's was pretty much a PPG player 3/4 years in Cornell, he was PPG player in the BCHL, he had 40 points in 59 games in his first year as a pro in the AHL and put up 13 points in 24 NHL games.

He certainly has looked a whole lot better as a pro than Regin has.

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10-26-2011, 03:20 PM
  #117
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Um...in what way? He's was pretty much a PPG player 3/4 years in Cornell, he was PPG player in the BCHL, he had 40 points in 59 games in his first year as a pro in the AHL and put up 13 points in 24 NHL games.

He certainly has looked a whole lot better as a pro than Regin has.
I'd say that's debatable

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10-26-2011, 04:04 PM
  #118
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I'd say that's debatable
You're right. How can we comapre the two when one is always hurt.

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10-26-2011, 04:07 PM
  #119
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Um...in what way? He's was pretty much a PPG player 3/4 years in Cornell, he was PPG player in the BCHL, he had 40 points in 59 games in his first year as a pro in the AHL and put up 13 points in 24 NHL games.

He certainly has looked a whole lot better as a pro than Regin has.
He isn't much of a stickhandler, nor a playmaker. He isn't anymore of a shooter than Regin, nor does he seem to have as good as shot. He works the boards hard and goes to the net; a job that we also have Michalek, Foligno and Neil doing to great success.

His history... he put up average numbers at every level of hockey, despite always being significantly older (& bigger for that matter) than everybody else in his situation. In the one situation where he played multiple seasons (college), his numbers did not improve much at all over a 4 year period. Because of his advanced ages, he's always come into leagues with a more mature game combined with limited upside.

It reminds me of how much Ryan Malone was being hyped after his first season. He was 23/24 yo and had a pretty good rookie season. All of a sudden, Pens fans were all over the place saying he was gonna post 30+ goals, 70+ points as the next Tkachuk or Bertuzzi. He had a limited upside coming in at that age, he posted a 0.53 PPG in his rookie season and has that all the way up to 0.61 after 500+ games. While it'd be good if Greening could become Ryan Malone, here are areas of concern in that respect:
- he's already a year or two older than Malone was in his rookie year.
- Greening still hasn't played even half a seasons worth of games.
- Malone produced in his rookie year with nobody and in over 500+ games, has produced with a variety of very good centres. Greening has only produced over a very short span with Spezza. We don't know if he maintain the same pace with Lecavalier or Fisher or DaCosta or Jamie Baker...

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10-26-2011, 06:20 PM
  #120
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If Regin misses a lot of time, it really sucks and in the end, it might make the difference between making the playoffs or not. I know a lot of people don't realize it but let's say we could have :

Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Neil

That would have been a decent top-9, with Butler ready to step in when there's injuries to wingers.

Regin out of the line-up is a bigger loss than people think. He was poised for his breakout year. Don't worry it will come, but unfortunately it might not be with the Sens if he can't manage to stay healthy a full season soon.

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Um...in what way? He's was pretty much a PPG player 3/4 years in Cornell, he was PPG player in the BCHL, he had 40 points in 59 games in his first year as a pro in the AHL and put up 13 points in 24 NHL games.

He certainly has looked a whole lot better as a pro than Regin has.
Not really, both have looked very good most of the time. They are 2 very different players so this discussion shouldn't include both. I don't understand this trend Sens fans have when they HAVE TO HATE a player to LOVE their favorite player more... I really don't get it and I doubt I ever will.

That being said, Regin has been mishandled under Clouston, let's not forget that he doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the NHL, however he has a lot of pro experience (SEL + AHL + International events). When Regin played with skilled players, he looked good.

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10-26-2011, 06:40 PM
  #121
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Um...in what way? He's was pretty much a PPG player 3/4 years in Cornell, he was PPG player in the BCHL, he had 40 points in 59 games in his first year as a pro in the AHL and put up 13 points in 24 NHL games.
You know who else has a similar profile and plays a similar game?

Mike Knuble.

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10-26-2011, 09:12 PM
  #122
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I'd say that's debatable
I don't think so. Greening has been solid to great. Regin has been streaky, and whether or not you think that Clouston mishandled him he simply didn't step up when he had his opportunities. It's not like this has been Regin's first season, or even last season. He's got more experience than Greening at the professional level by a lot and Greening has looked great since joining the NHL.

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You're right. How can we comapre the two when one is always hurt.
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He isn't much of a stickhandler, nor a playmaker. He isn't anymore of a shooter than Regin, nor does he seem to have as good as shot. He works the boards hard and goes to the net; a job that we also have Michalek, Foligno and Neil doing to great success.

His history... he put up average numbers at every level of hockey, despite always being significantly older (& bigger for that matter) than everybody else in his situation. In the one situation where he played multiple seasons (college), his numbers did not improve much at all over a 4 year period. Because of his advanced ages, he's always come into leagues with a more mature game combined with limited upside.

It reminds me of how much Ryan Malone was being hyped after his first season. He was 23/24 yo and had a pretty good rookie season. All of a sudden, Pens fans were all over the place saying he was gonna post 30+ goals, 70+ points as the next Tkachuk or Bertuzzi. He had a limited upside coming in at that age, he posted a 0.53 PPG in his rookie season and has that all the way up to 0.61 after 500+ games. While it'd be good if Greening could become Ryan Malone, here are areas of concern in that respect:
- he's already a year or two older than Malone was in his rookie year.
- Greening still hasn't played even half a seasons worth of games.
- Malone produced in his rookie year with nobody and in over 500+ games, has produced with a variety of very good centres. Greening has only produced over a very short span with Spezza. We don't know if he maintain the same pace with Lecavalier or Fisher or DaCosta or Jamie Baker...
So...what does Greening have to do with Malone? His numbers doubled from his first year and he was PPG from then on. What more do you want from him? He's not a supertalent. He's a great role player with a big body and a lot of great physical abilities and he's intelligent. He works the boards arguably better than anyone on our team right now. He's also great in front of the net. He does a lot of things that Regin can't do (because he's weak.)

When has Regin put up better than average numbers at any level anyway? There's no question that Greening has been a better performer than Regin since coming to the NHL. Call it Spezza carrying him, but he's doing a lot of work for Spezza's line and for the team in general.

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Not really, both have looked very good most of the time. They are 2 very different players so this discussion shouldn't include both. I don't understand this trend Sens fans have when they HAVE TO HATE a player to LOVE their favorite player more... I really don't get it and I doubt I ever will.

That being said, Regin has been mishandled under Clouston, let's not forget that he doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the NHL, however he has a lot of pro experience (SEL + AHL + International events). When Regin played with skilled players, he looked good.
I don't hate Regin, I just hate that people are trying to put down a guy like Greening to say that Regin is good. Regin is a good player, yes, but Greening has been a better and more consistent player since coming to the NHL. Let's not forget that they're the same age and Regin has been playing professional hockey longer. I have more hope for Greening because of how smart he is and his physical gifts than I do for Regin.

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10-27-2011, 01:35 AM
  #123
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Not too surprising when you consider that he injured himself on nothing plays: his shoulder is probably really messed up.

God damn it; this really blows...
I think this might be the straw that broke the camel's back for Regin's NHL future with the sens. I truly hope not - I love what he brings. There are many good NHL players who fail to establish themselves because of injury woes.

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10-27-2011, 02:12 AM
  #124
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The guy's shoulder pops out when someone looks at it too intensely.

It's unfortunate, but obviously Regin is not a guy that we will ever be able to rely on.

He's the new Bill Muckalt. Flashes of talent, minimal results and a terribly weak shoulder.

Forget about this guy. He's finished.

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10-27-2011, 06:41 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
If Regin misses a lot of time, it really sucks and in the end, it might make the difference between making the playoffs or not. I know a lot of people don't realize it but let's say we could have :

Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Filatov-Regin-Alfredsson
Foligno-Smith-Neil

That would have been a decent top-9, with Butler ready to step in when there's injuries to wingers.

Regin out of the line-up is a bigger loss than people think. He was poised for his breakout year. Don't worry it will come, but unfortunately it might not be with the Sens if he can't manage to stay healthy a full season soon.



Not really, both have looked very good most of the time. They are 2 very different players so this discussion shouldn't include both. I don't understand this trend Sens fans have when they HAVE TO HATE a player to LOVE their favorite player more... I really don't get it and I doubt I ever will.

That being said, Regin has been mishandled under Clouston, let's not forget that he doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the NHL, however he has a lot of pro experience (SEL + AHL + International events). When Regin played with skilled players, he looked good.
I disagree with that completely. Clouston was Regin's coach from the time he got to North America up until last year for the most part. AHL and NHL. If you want to say Clouston is the reason Regin had a very poor year last year than you have to say Clouston is the reason he had a really good rookie year in the AHL and the reason for his call up to Ottawa the same year. He then went on the have a strong rookie season in the NHL.

Blamming people's individual performances on the coach is a cop out, IMO. Regin didn't come into camp in shape last year and had an awful pre-season, it carried over to the regular season. I won't specualte on the reasons but he isn't the first sophomore to hit that wall.

Either way, I think blamming his year in 10/11 on Clouston is pretty much just an excuse. To Regin's credit he came back this year in better shape, looked really good in the games he has played in, and was a threat everytime he was on the ice as well as playing a sound defensive game. He can't stay healthy though and if you can't play you are pretty much useless.

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