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Old
10-17-2011, 05:57 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Andra Davis has been benched in favor of Sheppard. Has Davis been that bad? Or has Sheppard been that good? I know one change won't turn things around for thi defense, but we can use any little bit of help we can get. Hopefully Sheppard pans out. I really like him as a prospect.
Davis was the weakest link in the LB corps, and thats saying something considering how Keslay and Merriman have played. Sheppard replacing him was destined to happen eventually, though I'm (pleasantly) surprised it happened this soon.

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10-17-2011, 08:07 PM
  #77
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It's taken me over a day to respond to the loss in Jersey...

1. Kudos to Florence for standing up and admitting his poor play.. he needs to know tho, the game was not completely on him.

2. Fitzpatrick blew two deep passes that where intercepted because he was short. I actually don't buy the "weak arm" thing, he simply is still learning.

3. Gailey, he called a piss poor game inside of the Giants 40 yard line. I love the passing game as much as anyone but Fred Jackson is the best thing the Bills have, not always the Amish Rifle! Play Jackson..

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10-18-2011, 03:42 AM
  #78
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It's taken me over a day to respond to the loss in Jersey...

1. Kudos to Florence for standing up and admitting his poor play.. he needs to know tho, the game was not completely on him.

2. Fitzpatrick blew two deep passes that where intercepted because he was short. I actually don't buy the "weak arm" thing, he simply is still learning.

3. Gailey, he called a piss poor game inside of the Giants 40 yard line. I love the passing game as much as anyone but Fred Jackson is the best thing the Bills have, not always the Amish Rifle! Play Jackson..
Don't tell that to Schopp and the Bulldog. They were going off on callers during the postgame show who were criticizing Gailey calling the pass to Stevie in the red zone that was intercepted instead of running the ball - saying "aggressive play-calling is what has got the Bills to where they are now, you don't know what you're talking about." After listening to Schopp and the Bulldog the past few weeks during postgame, I've concluded they are *******s who have their opinion and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Yes, aggressive play-calling has gotten us to where we are...but so has Freddie. They seemed to fail to realize that sometimes you have to make adjustments as a coach in the NFL, and if you're passing game has been slowed down the past few weeks, and you're running game is looking great...hmm what on EARTH is the right thing to do? Fitz has looked rather pedestrian ever since the New England game. Maybe it's teams catching on to our offense, maybe it's injuries to our O-line and to WR's...probably a bit of both. Either way, Freddie has been our best offensive player all season and I think our offense should be running through him right now until teams start loading the box, then we can focus on the passing game and Fitz. In my opinion, the Bills had no business passing when they had the ball in the red zone with 4:00 left. At least not until they faced a 3rd down situation.

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10-18-2011, 06:08 AM
  #79
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To be honest the only reason I ever listen to Schopp and the Bulldog is for their comedic value. The way I see it is that they are very stubborn and will stick to the first oppinion that pops into their head even if they are soundly prooven wrong. To be completely honest I was rolling Sunday morning listening to schopp argue with Sully. They literally got into a screaming insult match on air that ended up with them hanging up on sully. LSS take what they say with a grain of salt. They are idiots sometimes.

I have to say I am very impressed with the way the Bills players are taking responsability for their mistakes. Fitz, Stevie, and Florence have all come out and admitted to mistakes they made that may or may not have caused the loss.

Other then that I hope we can get some key players back from injury over the bye and hopefully we can see a win in week 8.

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10-18-2011, 09:48 AM
  #80
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To be honest the only reason I ever listen to Schopp and the Bulldog is for their comedic value. The way I see it is that they are very stubborn and will stick to the first oppinion that pops into their head even if they are soundly prooven wrong. To be completely honest I was rolling Sunday morning listening to schopp argue with Sully. They literally got into a screaming insult match on air that ended up with them hanging up on sully. LSS take what they say with a grain of salt. They are idiots sometimes.

I have to say I am very impressed with the way the Bills players are taking responsability for their mistakes. Fitz, Stevie, and Florence have all come out and admitted to mistakes they made that may or may not have caused the loss.

Other then that I hope we can get some key players back from injury over the bye and hopefully we can see a win in week 8.
Haha I heard that as well, it was pretty funny. Sully drives me up a wall even more than Schopp and the Bulldog though so it's no shocker than those guys clash sometimes.

All I've got to say as far as the play calling is live by the sword, die by the sword. They took a chance, in the past few weeks most of their risks have paid off and we have praised them for it. This week, they took a chance and Fitzpatrick simply did not execute and now we crucify them for it. I will give Schopp and the Bulldog credit that they pointed out that Gailey probably saw that as a safe play that could essentially win the game for them. The way the team was running the ball in the 2nd half (2.5 ypc) and the way Eli was moving, you didn't want to be stuck with a field goal and giving the ball back to Eli with over 2 minutes to play. And the play that Gailey called, Fitz executed about as poorly as he could have. That's a ball that you are taught to throw where ONLY your guy can make a play on it. If you over throw him, so be it, but he saw it as a safe play in 1-on-1 coverage along the sideline so he decided to take a shot. I really have no problem with it.

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10-18-2011, 04:01 PM
  #81
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Not Bills related but, the Raiders just gave up a 1st and 2nd for Carson Palmer.

Terrible move for Oakland IMO. Great for Cincy.

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10-18-2011, 04:19 PM
  #82
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Not Bills related but, the Raiders just gave up a 1st and 2nd for Carson Palmer.

Terrible move for Oakland IMO. Great for Cincy.
Interesting. It is great for Cincy because he was gone, daddy, gone and they have a pretty decent young team. Those 2 picks could be HUGE for their rebuild.

The Raiders, on the other hand, are showing themselves to be a legit team on the rise. Those 2 picks are going to hurt bad when it comes to adding more pieces. Campbell had been playing well and you'd think they would have been just fine with him until able to draft a future QB. Obviously, he's out for the year but long-term it'd have been better for them to battle through that and be better for it in the future. Without those two picks the chances of them drafting a QB to groom are much lower.

Palmer could come in and keep their season afloat but it's frankly a bit of a long shot because of his injury past and the fact he's coming in to the team mid-season as cold as cold can be: no camp with ANY team. That's a lot to overcome.

While Raiders success may impact Buffalo's playoff shot, I honestly hope it works out for them. If they win their division then it'll probably have no impact on Buffalo. I like what I see from their roster, which is why I want them to continue their rise. This move just seems bad for them. They have the running backs to run it regardless of their QB. They have receivers who can run deep routes and have anyone chuck them the ball, or turn screens into big plays. If Palmer is somehow able to get into form quickly and get chemistry with guys, he's got a good mix of young receivers to play with, but man...

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Old
10-18-2011, 04:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Not Bills related but, the Raiders just gave up a 1st and 2nd for Carson Palmer.

Terrible move for Oakland IMO. Great for Cincy.
Apparently the 2nd turns into a 1st if Oakland wins a playoff game this year. This more than undoes all the good I thought they did by getting Curry for ~free.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:16 PM
  #84
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Rumor on the Bills message boards that Kent Hull died today.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:20 PM
  #85
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Rumor on the Bills message boards that Kent Hull died today.
Channel 2 and TBN have both tweeted it.

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Old
10-18-2011, 06:33 PM
  #86
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Channel 2 and TBN have both tweeted it.

Totally sucks.

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Old
10-18-2011, 07:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Funky Monk View Post
Don't tell that to Schopp and the Bulldog. They were going off on callers during the postgame show who were criticizing Gailey calling the pass to Stevie in the red zone that was intercepted instead of running the ball - saying "aggressive play-calling is what has got the Bills to where they are now, you don't know what you're talking about." After listening to Schopp and the Bulldog the past few weeks during postgame, I've concluded they are *******s who have their opinion and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Yes, aggressive play-calling has gotten us to where we are...but so has Freddie. They seemed to fail to realize that sometimes you have to make adjustments as a coach in the NFL, and if you're passing game has been slowed down the past few weeks, and you're running game is looking great...hmm what on EARTH is the right thing to do? Fitz has looked rather pedestrian ever since the New England game. Maybe it's teams catching on to our offense, maybe it's injuries to our O-line and to WR's...probably a bit of both. Either way, Freddie has been our best offensive player all season and I think our offense should be running through him right now until teams start loading the box, then we can focus on the passing game and Fitz. In my opinion, the Bills had no business passing when they had the ball in the red zone with 4:00 left. At least not until they faced a 3rd down situation.
I actually don't get the criticism on Gailey's play calling, especially calling out the INT to Stevie Johnson. If Fitzy throws that pass deeper the way he should have and connects we're not having this conversation and I doubt anybody is criticizing Gailey. The game was lost not because of bad play calling, it was lost because the Bills turned the ball over twice and they did not get any takeaways.

Points to consider.

Nobody and I mean NOBODY expected the Bills to be anywhere near this point. So who's responsible for that? The players sure, but credit Gailey and Nix for looking at the talent they had and putting together pieces and installing a game plan to make this team work. We were all praising Gailey highly, then the Bills suffer a close loss and we're thinking Gailey and the coaching staff made terrible play calling decisions ?

They installed a quick pass based offense mixing in some deep plays, intended to spread out the defense to open up the running game. To get away from that probably would probably lead to a less explosive run game. Freddie Jackson is a great talent and makes yards out of virtually nothing at times but I think a bit part of his greater success this season so far has been because of how we are spreading it out in the passing game.

This segues to my next point about Jackson. If you take out the 80 yard run Jackson had 47 yards on 15 carries, which is under 3 ypc. The Giants at times were stuffing the run, they have great front 4, as evidence by them getting to Fitzy for some sacks. I am not sure that going to Jackson anymore would have done us any more good.

The Bills wins have been predicated on outscoring the opposition. They are not a ground and pound type of team and I don't think they have the personnel to be one. Their defense gives up huge chunks of yardage, but with the takeaways they prevent a few scores by the opposition and giving their offense a few more possessions to try and score with (if the defense isn't scoring themselves).

My opinion is that if the Bills defense don't get turnovers they will struggle (and turn the ball over). Sure you could say that is a fundamental truth with every team but some teams have a very good defense and can rely on it to stop opposition drives by limiting yardage.

The Bills defense right now doesn't look like it could stop anybody, so they NEED the turnovers. If they don't get turnovers the other teams will start racking up yardage, time of possession and points then our offense is under more pressure to be more effective so any errors on offense are that much more crucial. Ergo the loss to the Giants. No takeaways and 2 interceptions given up leads to a loss for the Bills.

Sure there are other things you could point at to blame the loss on but I really strongly believe that the biggest factor was not that Fred Jackson didn't get more carries and that we didn't go more conservative with the game plan. I believe the biggest problem was that we lost the turnover battle. Fitzy threw 2 bad balls and we didn't get Eli to throw any picks, which he is known to do.

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Old
10-18-2011, 09:33 PM
  #88
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RIP Kent Hull

I think we have a another Hall of FameCenter in the making in Eric Wood.. very sad day..

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10-18-2011, 09:40 PM
  #89
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OMG. 50 is too young.

RIP Kent, you were a warrior.

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10-18-2011, 10:05 PM
  #90
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wait...what!? Kent Hull died? This is awful.

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10-18-2011, 10:08 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ShadowOni View Post
I actually don't get the criticism on Gailey's play calling, especially calling out the INT to Stevie Johnson. If Fitzy throws that pass deeper the way he should have and connects we're not having this conversation and I doubt anybody is criticizing Gailey. The game was lost not because of bad play calling, it was lost because the Bills turned the ball over twice and they did not get any takeaways.

Points to consider.

Nobody and I mean NOBODY expected the Bills to be anywhere near this point. So who's responsible for that? The players sure, but credit Gailey and Nix for looking at the talent they had and putting together pieces and installing a game plan to make this team work. We were all praising Gailey highly, then the Bills suffer a close loss and we're thinking Gailey and the coaching staff made terrible play calling decisions ?

They installed a quick pass based offense mixing in some deep plays, intended to spread out the defense to open up the running game. To get away from that probably would probably lead to a less explosive run game. Freddie Jackson is a great talent and makes yards out of virtually nothing at times but I think a bit part of his greater success this season so far has been because of how we are spreading it out in the passing game.

This segues to my next point about Jackson. If you take out the 80 yard run Jackson had 47 yards on 15 carries, which is under 3 ypc. The Giants at times were stuffing the run, they have great front 4, as evidence by them getting to Fitzy for some sacks. I am not sure that going to Jackson anymore would have done us any more good.

The Bills wins have been predicated on outscoring the opposition. They are not a ground and pound type of team and I don't think they have the personnel to be one. Their defense gives up huge chunks of yardage, but with the takeaways they prevent a few scores by the opposition and giving their offense a few more possessions to try and score with (if the defense isn't scoring themselves).

My opinion is that if the Bills defense don't get turnovers they will struggle (and turn the ball over). Sure you could say that is a fundamental truth with every team but some teams have a very good defense and can rely on it to stop opposition drives by limiting yardage.

The Bills defense right now doesn't look like it could stop anybody, so they NEED the turnovers. If they don't get turnovers the other teams will start racking up yardage, time of possession and points then our offense is under more pressure to be more effective so any errors on offense are that much more crucial. Ergo the loss to the Giants. No takeaways and 2 interceptions given up leads to a loss for the Bills.

Sure there are other things you could point at to blame the loss on but I really strongly believe that the biggest factor was not that Fred Jackson didn't get more carries and that we didn't go more conservative with the game plan. I believe the biggest problem was that we lost the turnover battle. Fitzy threw 2 bad balls and we didn't get Eli to throw any picks, which he is known to do.
The main reasoning behind the criticism is that we had the ball at the Giants ~30 with 4 minutes left. In that position the strategy should have been to grind the clock by picking up more 1st downs, and eventually score with as little time left as possible. Going for the TD/large gain right away made no sense.

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10-18-2011, 10:23 PM
  #92
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wait...what!? Kent Hull died? This is awful.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...-obit-kenthull

Quote:
Kent Hull, who served as Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly’s center during the Buffalo Bills’ AFC title years in the early 1990s, has died. He was 50.

Mississippi State, where Hull played his college ball, announced he passed away on Tuesday afternoon. The cause of death was not immediately known.
Quote:
His sudden death left his former teammates, Hall of Fame coach Marv Levy and even their respective families inconsolable.

“I’m so, so saddened,” Levy said. “I coached for 47 years, and he honestly was one of the very most memorable individuals who was my privilege to coach.”

Levy’s wife, Fran, was so heartbroken she sobbed openly upon learning the news. Patti Thomas, the wife of Hall of Fame running back Thurman Thomas, also had difficulty speaking because she was overcome by emotion when reached by phone.

In an email to The Associated Press, Thurman Thomas wrote: “We have suffered a tremendous loss. Kent was a teammate, big brother and best friend. My heart breaks for His amazing family. My heart breaks period. He will be a best friend and in my heart forever.”
RIP Kent. RIP.

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10-18-2011, 10:26 PM
  #93
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RIP Kent. We could always use a few more like you.

As for the Raiders, what the hell were you thinking? You probably could have had him for a 3rd and a 5th since it seemed like nobody else wanted him.

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10-18-2011, 11:10 PM
  #94
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The main reasoning behind the criticism is that we had the ball at the Giants ~30 with 4 minutes left. In that position the strategy should have been to grind the clock by picking up more 1st downs, and eventually score with as little time left as possible. Going for the TD/large gain right away made no sense.
Element of surprise, you run it twice and they shut the run down as they had the entire game pretty much other than the one 80 yard run, then you pass on 3rd down when the Giants have a bunch of guys dropped into coverage expecting the pass. Then you're kicking a 40-50 yard field goal and giving the ball back to Eli Manning who was slicing and dicing our defense all day with about 2 and a half minutes left and he only has to get into field goal range.

Like I said, I'm ok with the call.

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10-18-2011, 11:33 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Funky Monk View Post
Don't tell that to Schopp and the Bulldog. They were going off on callers during the postgame show who were criticizing Gailey calling the pass to Stevie in the red zone that was intercepted instead of running the ball - saying "aggressive play-calling is what has got the Bills to where they are now, you don't know what you're talking about." After listening to Schopp and the Bulldog the past few weeks during postgame, I've concluded they are *******s who have their opinion and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Yes, aggressive play-calling has gotten us to where we are...but so has Freddie. They seemed to fail to realize that sometimes you have to make adjustments as a coach in the NFL, and if you're passing game has been slowed down the past few weeks, and you're running game is looking great...hmm what on EARTH is the right thing to do? Fitz has looked rather pedestrian ever since the New England game. Maybe it's teams catching on to our offense, maybe it's injuries to our O-line and to WR's...probably a bit of both. Either way, Freddie has been our best offensive player all season and I think our offense should be running through him right now until teams start loading the box, then we can focus on the passing game and Fitz. In my opinion, the Bills had no business passing when they had the ball in the red zone with 4:00 left. At least not until they faced a 3rd down situation.
The bills were averaging around 2 yards per carry in the second half. The running game was completely nonexistant.

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10-19-2011, 12:47 AM
  #96
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It's also possible that Fitz saw the man coverage on the outside and changed to that play. Certainly it's a matchup that everyone on the Bills roster was extremely happy about - they just didn't execute.

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10-19-2011, 03:28 AM
  #97
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OMG. 50 is too young.
Indeed. A very sad day.

I don't want to sound insensitive, but I just want to point out that 50 isn't very old by NFL lineman standards. Most of these guys never make it to their 60s. I think the average age of death for an NFL lineman is 52.

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10-19-2011, 07:27 AM
  #98
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Element of surprise, you run it twice and they shut the run down as they had the entire game pretty much other than the one 80 yard run, then you pass on 3rd down when the Giants have a bunch of guys dropped into coverage expecting the pass. Then you're kicking a 40-50 yard field goal and giving the ball back to Eli Manning who was slicing and dicing our defense all day with about 2 and a half minutes left and he only has to get into field goal range.

Like I said, I'm ok with the call.
We have tons of plays (runs and passes) that go for 5-10 yards, and our offense had proven perfectly capable of executing them that day against the Giants. Scoring right away would have been nice, but would have been vastly inferior to scoring after eating up nearly the entire clock.

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10-19-2011, 07:39 AM
  #99
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RIP Kent Hull. Damn good center. All accounts state a great person, too. Met him only once and he was great.

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10-19-2011, 11:12 AM
  #100
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It's a shame Kent Hull died at 50, that really is too early. Condolences to his family and friends. Heck of a football player. Any center that can play at his level especially with a complex offense like the Bills had then is a special player.

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