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How long does Gauthier have to win the Cup?

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Old
10-16-2011, 03:31 PM
  #1
Harry Wong
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How long does Gauthier have to win the Cup?

Assuming the goal is to win the Cup, how long will Molsons' give Gauthier to win? There are those who feel that Gauthier is on the right track and just needs more of his young players to mature. We just need to be patient. And there are those who feel that we will never win unless we start at the bottom and through the draft try to accumulate at least three or four of the top players in the game. (Right now we don't have anyone in the top 50 prospects according to some opinions ) .Myself, I like some of what Gauthier seems to be trying to do. I do wish we were bigger and grittier, but I know that every team is looking for those kind of players so I wonder if he can really win without acquiring some top draft picks that eventually pan out. ie; Carey Price. And this in no way is meant to show disloyaty to the team after only 4 games. Since he is the one who is ultimately responsible for the record of the team I would be interested to hear from the experienced posters here how long they think he will be given, and of course why.

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10-16-2011, 03:33 PM
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I don't know, but if we let BG hang around for as long as he did and compare PG's early reign, I think he has already proven to be more suitable for the position, so I think the Molsons will be patient with PG and continue to let him put his foot print on this team.

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10-16-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I don't know, but if we let BG hang around for as long as he did and compare PG's early reign, I think he has already proven to be more suitable for the position, so I think the Molsons will be patient with PG and continue to let him put his foot print on this team.
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
As long as bg got to screw around for unless he pulls out a "gomez trade" early.
I thought Gainey was doing fine until the centennial collapse. Then the screws came loose. Taking over as coach and putting Laraque on the first line? Yikes. Then the major blunders were the Gomez deal and signing Spacek (admittedly, this didn't look that bad when it happened). But even the overall tone of blowing up the team just felt like a major panic move. Luckily, the screwups haven't been too large other than that pit which is Gomez.

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10-16-2011, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RBR View Post
I thought Gainey was doing fine until the centennial collapse. Then the screws came loose. Taking over as coach and putting Laraque on the first line? Yikes. Then the major blunders were the Gomez deal and signing Spacek (admittedly, this didn't look that bad when it happened). But even the overall tone of blowing up the team just felt like a major panic move. Luckily, the screwups haven't been too large other than that pit which is Gomez.
For years all he did was make trades/signings for bottom 6 guys and sideways moves. When he tried to trade for a big name it was a disaster. Maybe we were lucky he didn't try and make a lot of trades or he would have been another Milbury. PG needs time to clean up the mess so he should get atleast 5 years.

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10-16-2011, 04:41 PM
  #5
Andy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
For years all he did was make trades/signings for bottom 6 guys and sideways moves. When he tried to trade for a big name it was a disaster. Maybe we were lucky he didn't try and make a lot of trades or he would have been another Milbury. PG needs time to clean up the mess so he should get atleast 5 years.
PG needs to clean up what mess? There isn't any mess aside from the Gomez contract and that hasn't hindered the team from doing anything they didn't want to. It's not like he traded 1st rounds picks year in and year out. In fact he along with Andre Savard cleaned up the mess left by the old management team.

A lot of the good parts of our current team having Gainey's finger print on it. Gorges, Subban, Pacioretty, Price, Cammalleri.

Hell even with the last core he changed the image completely and brought excitement back to Montreal by brining in Kovalev.

Gainey wasn't Godly and I don't think anyone would say that. He brought some respect to the piece of crap he inherited.


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Old
10-16-2011, 04:43 PM
  #6
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As long as the results are there, Pierre Gauthier's job is safe. I mean, there's only one winner per year so I don't think he has to win the cup to keep his job. He needs to put a good team together year after year...

So far, I think he's doing a great job. He doesn't wait when think are not alright. We traded for Wiz, we signed Campoli, and Markov will probably comeback soon so he won't have to get another D.

And if Gomez is still bad this season, he'll probably dump him next season. He takes actions...

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10-16-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
PG needs to clean up what mess? There isn't any mess aside from the Gomez contract and that hasn't hindered the team from doing anything they didn't want to. It's not like he traded 1st rounds picks year in and year out. In fact he along with Andre Savard cleaned up the mess left by the old management team.

A lot of the good parts of our current team having Gainey's finger print on it. Gorges, Subban, Pacioretty, Price, Cammalleri.

Hell even with the last core he changed the image completely and brought excitement back to Montreal by brining in Kovalev.
Right now the defense is a mess and we can't make any moves until gomez is gone. How is it not hindering the team exactly? We can't get a legitimate 2nd line centre while he is here and have to rely on DD to take pressure off Pleks. Thank god spacek is gone after this year and we start to get clear of his worst moves.

If Subban, Kostitsyn, Gorges and some of the RFAs have big years where will the cash for them come from? I wouldn't be suprised to see us lose someone in the next couple seasons we might not want to lose.

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10-16-2011, 05:23 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Right now the defense is a mess and we can't make any moves until gomez is gone. How is it not hindering the team exactly? We can't get a legitimate 2nd line centre while he is here and have to rely on DD to take pressure off Pleks. Thank god spacek is gone after this year and we start to get clear of his worst moves.

If Subban, Kostitsyn, Gorges and some of the RFAs have big years where will the cash for them come from? I wouldn't be suprised to see us lose someone in the next couple seasons we might not want to lose.
There is so many things wrong here right.

Yah the defense is a mess, but this has nothing to do with Gomez and everything to do with injuries. Despite Gomez's big bad contract we still had 3 million in cap space to start the season. Gomez hasn't hindered the team in anything and I don't see how he stops us from going to get a defenseman now considering UFA period is over and this "mess" is likely to get solved by a trade and not by a signing. So again, you can **** on Gomez, but **** were it's necessary to do so. It doesn't fit at all in this case.

Why can't we get a legitmate second line center while he's here? Is he performing like a second line center? Some say so far yah, others say so far this season no. I think he's been pretty good this season so far. So again I really don't see how he's hampering anything. It seems like your biggest problem is this Gomez trade which you use to apply to anything you don't like about the team even though it's not relevant in certain cases. It's stuff like this why I don't respect your opinion at times. You are exaggerating by putting Gainey in the same boat as Milbury etc.

As far as RFA's go, we have more than enough cap space next year to cover them all. Spacek, Gill, Moen are all coming off the books next season...that's almost 8 million of cap space freed up right there. I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Also I doubt any of Kostitsyn or Gorges gets any significant pay raise next year so most of the free cap space will go to where it needs to go anyway.
The team has a projected 26 million in cap space next season, I really don't think Gomez is hampering anything at all.
You're so caught up with one trade, give it up.

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Old
10-16-2011, 06:15 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
There is so many things wrong here right.

Yah the defense is a mess, but this has nothing to do with Gomez and everything to do with injuries. Despite Gomez's big bad contract we still had 3 million in cap space to start the season. Gomez hasn't hindered the team in anything and I don't see how he stops us from going to get a defenseman now considering UFA period is over and this "mess" is likely to get solved by a trade and not by a signing. So again, you can **** on Gomez, but **** were it's necessary to do so. It doesn't fit at all in this case.

Why can't we get a legitmate second line center while he's here? Is he performing like a second line center? Some say so far yah, others say so far this season no. I think he's been pretty good this season so far. So again I really don't see how he's hampering anything. It seems like your biggest problem is this Gomez trade which you use to apply to anything you don't like about the team even though it's not relevant in certain cases. It's stuff like this why I don't respect your opinion at times. You are exaggerating by putting Gainey in the same boat as Milbury etc.

As far as RFA's go, we have more than enough cap space next year to cover them all. Spacek, Gill, Moen are all coming off the books next season...that's almost 8 million of cap space freed up right there. I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Also I doubt any of Kostitsyn or Gorges gets any significant pay raise next year so most of the free cap space will go to where it needs to go anyway.
The team has a projected 26 million in cap space next season, I really don't think Gomez is hampering anything at all.
You're so caught up with one trade, give it up.
Being completly outplayed by Desharnais and soon Eller? You have watched some of the games right and not just skimmed the stat sheets like the majority here? I just have trouble taking you seriously when you say that having the worst contract in the league doesn't hamper us in any way. Do you think PG would have gone into this season with almost 10million in cap space if we didn't have gomez? No we would have picked up a top pairing defenseman or a veteren 2nd line centre.

That one trade is still shaping this team today so why shouldn't I be caught up in it? DD suffered all last year with low minutes because gomez needed to get his 20 per a game. Gomez was atrocious in the playoffs and yet still needed to get his 20mins because he is the highest paid on the team.

All I said was PG deserves as much time to clean up gaineys mess as gainey got. Then you got your panties in a bunch because someone dared to claim gainey wasn't the man-god you all thought he was. If you can't handle differing opinions then you shouldn't be on a forum.

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Old
10-16-2011, 06:27 PM
  #10
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Being completly outplayed by Desharnais and soon Eller? You have watched some of the games right and not just skimmed the stat sheets like the majority here?
He hasn't been outplayed by either of them. Gomez has been playing quite good. It looks like the only one who makes judgements based on stat sheets is you since because you don't see points you don't think he's playing well.


Quote:
I just have trouble taking you seriously when you say that having the worst contract in the league doesn't hamper us in any way. Do you think PG would have gone into this season with almost 10million in cap space if we didn't have gomez? No we would have picked up a top pairing defenseman or a veteren 2nd line centre.
The habs had 3-4 million extra in cap space after the Cole signing, it was enough to pick up a second line center. Also, where was a top pairing defenseman available this UFA period? None were. The only one that can be considered one(and I'm stretching that definition) is Brewer but he was signed before noon. Also Hejda was picked up, but we could have afforded him, we had more than enough cap space.

I don't think we didn't pick said players because of no cap room, I think they didn't do so because they'd rather take another chance on Gomez. It's not like he's played like a 3rd line center in the two years he's been here. He had one bad season and I don't think GMs anywhere are that reactionary. They'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he can bounce back to the year before.

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That one trade is still shaping this team today so why shouldn't I be caught up in it? DD suffered all last year with low minutes because gomez needed to get his 20 per a game. Gomez was atrocious in the playoffs and yet still needed to get his 20mins because he is the highest paid on the team.
How is it shaping the team? What has it stopped the team from doing?

Secondly you are all over the place. First you say in your other post that we have to replace Gomez with a guy like Desharnais who isn't a 2nd line center and now you're saying Gomez is preventing him from getting minutes? I think this is the time you should go look at the stat sheet and actually see how much Desharnais has been hampered by Gomez this season.

Quote:
All I said was PG deserves as much time to clean up gaineys mess as gainey got. Then you got your panties in a bunch because someone dared to claim gainey wasn't the man-god you all thought he was. If you can't handle differing opinions then you shouldn't be on a forum.
What Mess? If anything Gauthier is benefiting from the pieces Gainey brought in. Cammalleri, Gionta, retaining Plekanec after his abysmal season, Pacioretty, sticking with Price, drafting Subban, getting Gorges.

You grasping at straws to bash Gainey and frankly I don't buy it.

Seems like the person who can't handle different opinions is you. Also if you'd actually read what I wrote earlier, you'll see that I never called Gainey a God, in fact I explicitly said "it's not like Gainey was a god".

Just in case you don't pick it up again, I'll even quote myself from earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post

Gainey wasn't Godly and I don't think anyone would say that. He brought some respect to the piece of crap he inherited.


Plus you've been on this Gainey rant since before the Gomez trade so I just don't take your opinion very seriously. I've only started posting since 08, but I've read these boards for a long period of time before I posted and I'm well aware of your gainey bashing from long before the Gomez trade which extended even in the season of the first place finish.

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Old
10-16-2011, 06:28 PM
  #11
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How long? What an absurd question! There are 30 teams and 30 coaches and 30 GMs. Figure out the odds.

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10-16-2011, 07:17 PM
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I have said it before I don't care how many point gomez gets, his play still stinks. I know you are the kind of person on here who sees an assist and craps their pants. If by "playing good" you mean completly wasting ice time and killing plays, then yes I guess he is "playing good".
How am I the one who is basing my judgement on Gomes based on his points when I have said he's been playing well despite having 1 point. Why are you putting words in my mouth.

He didn't waste any plays. Go re-watch the game from last night. Gomez sets up Moen at point-blank range in front of Varlamov 3 times last night. His set ups go beyond yesterday's game and go beyond his one point. He's actually playing quite well.

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And Gainey inherited Koivu and Markov who carried his **** team for years. What are you getting at? Yes gainey left some good players and pretty much did nothing with the team. He also locked up some ****** contracts that are still weighing the team down.
Again which ones are weighing the team down? What hasn't the team been able to do? Every GM signs players that don't work out. So you'll point to Spacek, wow. You make it seem like we're the only team that signs players to bad contracts. It happens and you move on. Even at that, how much has it really hampered the team considering we had 8 million before signing Cole this off-season. We had 8 million in cap space after retaining pretty much last year's roster. After signing cole we still had 3-4 million, it hasn't hampered anything down at all.

Quote:
Trades could have been made but gomez is untradeable, pretty simple idea, not too complicated. You think the team stocks up on centres because we have great faith in gomez? LOL DD isn't a legit #2 yet because he got like 7minutes a game all last year, do you follow this team at all?
Again you are still on this Gomez trade. Give it up, it's a bad trade and it happens.

I doubt the team stocked up on centers because they lacked faith in Gomez. I'm pretty sure the team stocked up on centers because they had none in the system and any reasonable GM would re-stock what he doesn't have. Also, Desharnais was a Gainey pick up. So you went from saying Desharnais who isn't a 2nd center had to replace a ****** Gomez, to saying that Gomez has prevented Desharnais from getting the second line center minutes that he deserves, to now saying that Desharnais is being hampered from becoming a 2nd line center because of Gomez. Hell of a conspiracy you are working up there.

Yah look at how much Gomez is preventing Desharnais from playing..>Desharnais total ice time :18:51. Where's the prevention?

as for 7 minutes last year...it was his first year and since when does JM throw a rookie right into big-time minutes? He hasn't done it with anyone. Desharnais improved has experience and is now getting the ice time.

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Yes I have been saying that gainey was an average to below average gm for a long time and people like you whined back then aswell. I don't see where you are going with this. You think because a team finishes first ONCE that all of a sudden all the past problems magically disappear
I never said anything like that. I said you evaluation of Gainey is highly exaggerated. He inherited a team that was terrible, brought respect back to the organization that started with Andre Savard and left good pieces to work with.

Also, just on a personal note, I really don't get why you need to be so hostile and exaggerant everytime you post. It's a discussion, not a battle, relax a little.


Last edited by Andy: 10-16-2011 at 07:22 PM.
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Old
10-16-2011, 07:21 PM
  #13
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According to plenty on this board, Gauthier's time was up February 8th 2010.

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10-16-2011, 08:23 PM
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According to plenty on this board, Gauthier's time was up February 8th 2010.
And then 4 months later, on June 17th.

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10-16-2011, 08:39 PM
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And then 4 months later, on June 17th.
Fair enough. Don't know what happened June 17th but you feel his time is done already....Just don't understand why none of the other major posters will commit themselves to a time frame over which Gauthier should be evaluated or judged by the owners, ( and the fans).

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10-16-2011, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Harry Wong View Post
Fair enough. Don't know what happened June 17th but you feel his time is done already....Just don't understand why none of the other major posters will commit themselves to a time frame over which Gauthier should be evaluated or judged by the owners, ( and the fans).
Not really. June 17th was when Halak got traded (yeah, I googled it beforehand, don't need to make a face ).

Was just saying how people were already saying his time was done, after only 4 months in office (well, that position anyway).


IMO, it's not a matter of commiting myself to a time frame, rather understanding that the time frame is not about time itself, but about context (like future outcomes and their own context), and context can make the time frame very unpredictable.

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10-16-2011, 09:16 PM
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Fair enough. Don't know what happened June 17th but you feel his time is done already....Just don't understand why none of the other major posters will commit themselves to a time frame over which Gauthier should be evaluated or judged by the owners, ( and the fans).
The posters that are more realistic know it isn't about time frame. It's not that simple.
Does the team stagnate in terms of progress? Does it worsens? Improves slowly? How does he handle contracts? Re-signals? Trades? Drafting? Prospect developments?..

You can't just give a time frame.

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10-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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The product being peddled by the Molson boys is hope. When the hope tree stops bearing fruit the GM is in trouble. There is no predictability as to when this will happen, but a perfect storm of missing the playoffs a couple times plus some disappointing development and a couple haunting trades will launch the process.

Keep in mind Mike Milbury was a GM for 11 years.

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10-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The posters that are more realistic know it isn't about time frame. It's not that simple.
Does the team stagnate in terms of progress? Does it worsens? Improves slowly? How does he handle contracts? Re-signals? Trades? Drafting? Prospect developments?..

You can't just give a time frame.
I agree there are lots of variables. Eventually judgement will have to be made on the general direction the current group is going. I think there is a time limit on how long people will put up with the best players playing elsewhere.

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10-17-2011, 02:20 AM
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as long as the team can steadily continue to improve their profit margins, there will be no management changes.

as long as the team stays relevant enough that people will pay the absurd ticket prices, continue to buy up boatloads of merchandise, and the team doesn't miss the playoff more than once consecutively, I'm betting PG's job is perfectly safe.

with a cap spending team that has an elite goaltender, I'd say the odds of him getting canned anytime in the near future are slim-to-none, even if we continue our decade long streak as a borderline (6-10) playoff team

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10-17-2011, 07:46 AM
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He said he wanted the Habs to be a top 10 team in the league, he has yet to do that so before winning the Cup he still has plenty of work to do

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10-17-2011, 08:31 AM
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Judging by the lower bowl and energy of the Bell Centre the first two games, that is slowly changing.

The rink has been like a morgue.

Fans have had enough of these mediocre teams.

We are slowly becoming ACC 2.0
That's just reverting to the Forum days. The crowd was VERY loud only when the play on the ice called for it. Otherwise, people were intensely watching and quiet. What's wrong with that?

I actually find the raucous fan behavior of the last 5 years a bit sad. It's manufactured, and not Montreal style. Yeah it's great that young fans are enthusiastic, I know that, I'm not a downer but...

I have no problem with a quieter Bell, and I'm not surprised Molson has tuned things down a bit. They remember the Forum quite well.

It was FAR more dramatic and fun to go from quite and intense to monstrous noise now and then, when the play called for it, then the constant idiotic noise noise of the last 5 years, with no relation to on ice play half the time.

And the Forum used to bother opposing teams because of that quiet intensity followed by huge noise. It was much more intimidating. If you are too young to have experienced it, believe me, it was way more intense than now.

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10-17-2011, 09:15 AM
  #23
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The Montreal Canadiens in general have three years (including this year) to win the cup and here is why:

1) Cammalleri, Gionta, Gomez, Markov and Plekanec will all move on after there contracts expire here, the only players I see staying are Gionta and Cammalleri, I can see Markov in Washington, Gomez retire or play in the minors and Plekanec sign with the highest bidder.

2) In three years, Leblanc, Eller, Beaulieu, Tinordi and hopefully Kristo will all be playing in the NHL or be up and coming NHL prospects at that point with some experience in Montreal, a good mix of young players with veterans that we already have is the perfect ingredient to win.

3) I don't see Carey Price and PK Subban getting long term contracts and if they are not signed long term or for what they are worth, kiss them goodbye in 3 to 5 seasons max and watch them cash in before there prime (27 to 28 years old).

4) Montreal will be without a cup for 20 years come the end of next season, I think management and ownership is impatient at this point and if Geoff Molson cannot make it happen with Gauthier, he will look else where, maybe to one of his good friends whose first name is also Pierre and currently works for NBC.

5) The organization cannot expect fans to keep paying the highest amount in the NHL to watch live games, before you know it, if the Habs do not win, fans will just stop caring and following the team and the main reason is because the current young fan has NEVER seen the Habs win the cup, do you think they care about making the playoffs and losing in the first round? They want to see a cup and if they don't, then they will just become Red Wings, Penguins and Capitals fans.

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10-17-2011, 09:26 AM
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@WestIslander:

1) LOL @ Gomez retiring and playing in the minors, you're as bias as they come if you actually believe that crap you just spewed. He'll guaranteed get an NHL contract.

4) What's your obsession with Pierre McGuire, I've seen you citing this quite a few times. He's a TV hockey analyst and will never see the light of day as GM of Montreal let alone any original 6 team. The Montreal Canadiens aren't in the business of making a mockery of their team, comments like this make me think you're of a very young age group, not trying to be a dick but are you 13? If that's the case it would make me understand your sentiments about getting McGuire a bit more.

5) Can't tell you how untrue this comment is, just looking at Toronto alone let alone every other Canadian team...

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10-17-2011, 09:30 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
The Montreal Canadiens in general have three years (including this year) to win the cup and here is why:

1) Cammalleri, Gionta, Gomez, Markov and Plekanec will all move on after there contracts expire here, the only players I see staying are Gionta and Cammalleri, I can see Markov in Washington, Gomez retire or play in the minors and Plekanec sign with the highest bidder.

2) In three years, Leblanc, Eller, Beaulieu, Tinordi and hopefully Kristo will all be playing in the NHL or be up and coming NHL prospects at that point with some experience in Montreal, a good mix of young players with veterans that we already have is the perfect ingredient to win.

3) I don't see Carey Price and PK Subban getting long term contracts and if they are not signed long term or for what they are worth, kiss them goodbye in 3 to 5 seasons max and watch them cash in before there prime (27 to 28 years old).

4) Montreal will be without a cup for 20 years come the end of next season, I think management and ownership is impatient at this point and if Geoff Molson cannot make it happen with Gauthier, he will look else where, maybe to one of his good friends whose first name is also Pierre and currently works for NBC.

5) The organization cannot expect fans to keep paying the highest amount in the NHL to watch live games, before you know it, if the Habs do not win, fans will just stop caring and following the team and the main reason is because the current young fan has NEVER seen the Habs win the cup, do you think they care about making the playoffs and losing in the first round? They want to see a cup and if they don't, then they will just become Red Wings, Penguins and Capitals fans.

You're whole theory is based on an array of speculations who are in turn based on nothing more than your apprehension.

In the first bolded part, you say Cam and Gio will stay, yet they are the ones who went for the highest bidder when they hit FA, whereas Markov has been said to go to Washington this year and 4 years ago when he was about to hit FA, and guess what? He's still here. And the same for Plekanec. People said he would go for the highest bidder, guess what? He didn't.

As for Price and Subban not staying long and not getting the proper contracts here, is the same ridicule line of thought that had people think the Habs couldn't re-sign Markov or Plekanec.

And the last bolded part... is just plain ridiculous. The waiting list for tickets is heffin long, and as long as the Habs remain somewhat competitive and the marketing department does its job, fans won't go to other teams. The ones who do are good riddance and they are few. I have 4 cousins who are all between 15 and 25 and none of them would be fans of other teams because the Habs haven't won the cup in the next 5 seasons. Stop projecting your own sentiments on other people. You might do this (quit the Habs) doesn't mean a good deal of people will do the same.

I do agree that the present window is 3 years, but another window of opportunity could easily open-up by then (like Eller rising to be better than Gomez, Plex and DD, like Pac being better than AK, Cam, Gio and Cole, like UFA signings, trades).


Last edited by Ozymandias: 10-17-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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