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All Injury Talk: Gill out Saturday/Markov not back before California trip

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Old
11-10-2011, 05:24 PM
  #701
Roke
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
So for the last half dozen games or so Desharnais has been playing on a 3rd line, at even strength? Cammalleri and Cole have been their 3rd line? Teams have been happily putting their inferior lines against that line becuase it's a "3rd line" and Desharnais is on it?

I'm confused now.
Martin is trying to get Desharnais out against opposition 3rd-lines. When he can get his matchups, that's what has happened. For instace, against Edmonton it was Plekanec vs RNH, Eller vs Horcoff, Desharnais vs Belanger. Though I classify Horcoff as EDM' #1 centre. Martin was trying to get Plekanec to prey on the weaker line which is something he rarely does unless the Habs are trailing. Against Boston it was Plekanec vs Bergeron, Eller vs Krejci, Desharnais vs Kelly, Nokelainen vs Campbell

Other teams may have a different strategy. A few teams, like Edmonton and Vancouver use their lines more according to which zone the faceoff is in rather than specific matchups. It's an interesting new strategy that Vigneault really started using last season.

Generally, Plekanec always gets the toughest opposition and Eller's been matched up against better players than Desharnais. With Gomez returning it will be interesting to see what happens. It wouldn't surprise me to see Eller continue to get 2nd-line matchups with Gomez taking over the 3rd-line role... hoping to get Gomez going on the scoresheet and possibly pump up his value for the off-season.

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11-10-2011, 05:26 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
It will help for sure but we weren't that bad at entering the zone, especially last game. The problem is all the stupid passing with no real good shots.

I still think our PP lacks creativity. All the action is on the point guys. Last year, MaxPac scored many goals when he was on the left side of the goalie. We dont see those cross-ice pass from the D to the guy on the face-off circle for a one-timer anymore.
And you just hit the nail on the head. This team has no real playmakers, atleast none that have matured to the point of running an NHL powerplay. Our #1 playmaker is markov. Pleks is a fantastic 2 way forward but is not a great playmaker. Desharnais may develop into one, but so far his passes lack precision. Eller will grow into this role, I think, but he's still years away in that regard.


Last edited by overlords: 11-10-2011 at 07:15 PM.
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Old
11-10-2011, 05:29 PM
  #703
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Disagree completely. He's a solid 3rd line player already in the NHL and could be a top 6 guy down the road.

Let me guess...Eller doesn't have the offensive instincts to be a top 6 forward either?
At even strength Eller is already a 2nd line player or if not very close. By which I mean with competent line mates he can face an NHL level 2nd line and expect to at least break even over the long haul. He doesn't score huge amounts but his defense is strong enough to more than make up the difference. Which is the big difference between him and Desharnais. Eller can control the play while Desharnais really can't outside the offensive zone.

Desharnais has had some success at the third line position thus far but its been in extremely sheltered and advantagous minutes while being consistently flanked by two very strong winger. That point to him being a competent passenger, not a driver of success. Lately he's the offensive compliment to the Cammalleri-Cole pairing much like Moen has been the defensive compliment to the Eller-Kostitsyn pairing.

Simply put, if Desharnais was the best overall player on a third line would you think that is a good third line?

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11-10-2011, 05:38 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
And you just hit the nail on the head. This team has no real playmakers, atleast none that have matured to the point of running an NHL team. Our #1 playmaker is markov. Pleks is a fantastic 2 way forward but is not a great playmaker. Desharnais may develop into one, but so far his passes lack position. Eller will grow into this role, I think, but he's still years away in that regard.
I was having a discussion on this yesterday, the playmaking has been the weakest part of Montreal's 5 on 4 play. Desharnais is pretty good at setting up forwards on the down low plays (like we've seen with Pacioretty and Cole for example) but doesn't really know how to set up a defense man for a point shot. Both Gomez and Plekanec can do that job but Plekanec is on the point and out of his element and Gomez is hurt. Diaz doesn't know how break down an NHL defense or set up a shot at an NHL level yet and both Weber and Subban are more guys to be set up rather than playmakers themselves.

So the powerplay has a bunch of guys that are good at their roles (Even Darche who people ***** about is perfectly competent at standing in front of the net, he's been part of successful units in the past) who aren't getting put in a position to execute them well because their hasn't been a good primary playmaker.

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11-10-2011, 07:14 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I was having a discussion on this yesterday, the playmaking has been the weakest part of Montreal's 5 on 4 play. Desharnais is pretty good at setting up forwards on the down low plays (like we've seen with Pacioretty and Cole for example) but doesn't really know how to set up a defense man for a point shot. Both Gomez and Plekanec can do that job but Plekanec is on the point and out of his element and Gomez is hurt. Diaz doesn't know how break down an NHL defense or set up a shot at an NHL level yet and both Weber and Subban are more guys to be set up rather than playmakers themselves.

So the powerplay has a bunch of guys that are good at their roles (Even Darche who people ***** about is perfectly competent at standing in front of the net, he's been part of successful units in the past) who aren't getting put in a position to execute them well because their hasn't been a good primary playmaker.
Exactly.Even gomez, who you mention is hurt, has lost all his creativity. He's become on of the most predictable players in the league. Darche, while useful when used in front of a goalie, screws plays up when he's needed to cycle the puck or do anything more complicated than stand still in the paint. Don't get me wrong, I love me some darche, but on the 4th or 3rd lines where he belongs.

We actually have a ton of guys who can score lots of goals. It wouldn't surprise me for this team to explode (5v5 as well) with the addition of a high level playmaker.
Markov returning (fingers crossed) will do this team a lot of good. There are way too many times I see that cross ice seam open up and nobody is willing/able to make that famous markovian play. Our breakout passing is also very weak, many of the passes hitting the forwards in the skates and slowing everything down.

Sorry, I had a few really stupid errors in the post you quoted. Gonna fix that. Serves me right for posting while working.

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11-10-2011, 09:56 PM
  #706
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Relationship between training staff and the injuries

Now I am not suggesting that our training staff is solely to blame for our recent injuries. I know that the players are professional athletes and should be able to take care of themselves, but with the amount of injuries the Habs has had the last couple of years one cannot help but to question how much influence does the quality of the training staff has on the injury condition of our players.

How do we grade the performance of the training staff, people like Pierre Allard and Co? Are they even remotely responsible for the amount of injuries that the Canadiens has sustained?

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11-10-2011, 09:59 PM
  #707
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Was it any worse under Rynbend?

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11-10-2011, 10:00 PM
  #708
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Blame the hockey gods.

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11-10-2011, 10:15 PM
  #709
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I found out what's wrong with Eller tonight. He ha a new helmet.

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Old
11-13-2011, 02:05 PM
  #710
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so what is the latest news on markov campoli and white?

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11-13-2011, 02:26 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P I K E Y View Post
so what is the latest news on markov campoli and white?
See the first post in the thread. Unless anybody's heard anything newer than that...

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11-13-2011, 03:20 PM
  #712
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If Kostitsyn is day-to-day, I hope Monday is the day. His return will have a more positive impact than Gomez's.

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11-13-2011, 03:38 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
If Kostitsyn is day-to-day, I hope Monday is the day. His return will have a more positive impact than Gomez's.
Gomez has had the same impact since coming back as he did when we signed him. ZERO!

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11-13-2011, 04:01 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Gomez has had the same impact since coming back as he did when we signed him. ZERO!
Wrong. Gomez does have an impact on the team.
Negative impact though.

How many games that Gomez hasn't scored ? 43 ? That's more than half-season !

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11-13-2011, 05:33 PM
  #715
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We are 1-0 with Gomez in the lineup this week.

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11-13-2011, 05:42 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Gomez has had the same impact since coming back as he did when we signed him. ZERO!
That's cause we never signed him.

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Old
11-13-2011, 05:59 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by shao01 View Post
Now I am not suggesting that our training staff is solely to blame for our recent injuries. I know that the players are professional athletes and should be able to take care of themselves, but with the amount of injuries the Habs has had the last couple of years one cannot help but to question how much influence does the quality of the training staff has on the injury condition of our players.

How do we grade the performance of the training staff, people like Pierre Allard and Co? Are they even remotely responsible for the amount of injuries that the Canadiens has sustained?
Sure, they neglected their duties by not telling Pacioretty how to avoid Chara when coming down the LW or Markov how to avoid becoming entangled with Staal, etc., etc. We're not talking about muscle strains or shortness of breath here.

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Old
11-14-2011, 12:16 AM
  #718
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[QUOTE=overlords;38018117]Latest Updates:
Cammalleri - hamstring - left Nov. 10 practice early - day-to-day (gametime decision vs. NSH)
Kostitsyn - lower body - did not practice Nov. 10 - day-to-day (out vs. NSH)
Markov - knee - practicing under supervision of trainers and coaches - still has "some ways to go" per 98.5 Sports
White - sports hernia surgery - won't be back until after Christmas per Martin (Nov. 9)
Campoli - hamstring/tendon - skated alone Nov. 8

Nov. 11


Nov. 10

http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...nt-106619.html

Translations:

Cammalleri left practice shortly after getting on the ice. Suffering from a hamstring injury.
Kostitsyn did not practice and is still suffering from a lower body injury.
Gomez will miss tonight's game but is a good bet to play Saturday vs. NSH.
Markov practiced under the supervision of trainers and coaches, but still has some ways to go. He didn't look too comfortable in a one-on-one drill with Scott Gomez.



Campoli:
last we read here (few days ago) is that he is doing some light skating...recovering from a hamstring/tendon injury. Cammalleri is also suffering from a hamstring injury (not tendon)...was Campoli's injury more serious than Cammalleri's? seems like Cammalleri's injury is day-to-day or 7 to 10 days...no?

Can't wait for Campoli to get back (to see a Campoli-Gorges pairing). Also can't wait to see White (Christmas gift for all Hab fans!), Markov...
And I really hope Markov will be back for good and not just for 10, 20 or 30 games only. If it means taking a little longer to come back so that he can last longer than I hope he takes his time even though I've become a very grumpy, nagging, restless, impatient Hab fan because of his 3 years of absence.

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11-14-2011, 12:39 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
We are 1-0 with Gomez in the lineup this week.
He nearly sabotaged the Habs but failed. He was on the PP unit that ceded the SH goal by Shea Webber. Fortunately, Max Pacioretty played the role of the anti-Gomez in OT.

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11-14-2011, 10:34 AM
  #720
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Markov skating with teammates this morning per MA Godin! Wearing a non-contact jersey but still good news.

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11-14-2011, 10:35 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Markov skating with teammates this morning per MA Godin! Wearing a non-contact jersey but still good news.
Wild guess but I guess he will practice with the team for the rest of the week with a no contact jersey.. than next week have a regular jersey. Maybe play at the end of the month if all goes well.

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11-14-2011, 10:35 AM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Markov skating with teammates this morning per MA Godin! Wearing a non-contact jersey but still good news.
That is indeed great news. We're actually getting close to a return.

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:46 AM
  #723
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MAG also tweeted that Gill is absent, but not sure why. Could just be a maintenance day. Kostitsyn isn't there either.

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11-14-2011, 10:50 AM
  #724
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Markov comes back to practice with the team a year from his last game played (November 13th 2010).

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Old
11-14-2011, 10:52 AM
  #725
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I'm hanging my Markov optimism on the hope that his training and care is focused on preventing future injury as much as it is on being healthy in the present.

If he gets re-injured I think even I might riot...

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