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Old
10-17-2011, 04:08 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I was pissed when I thought it was just Higgins. McDonagh too? Ugh!

Higgins > Gomez.
Hard to believe you're looking at this objectively if you honestly believe that? There is no way Higgins is a better hockey player than Gomez, zero. I think the trade was a huge blunder, but making these absurd statements takes away from any valid criticisms others may have. Hate the trade because it was a poor decision, but don't make ridiculous claims as to why, there are enough real reasons to not like this trade without adding something so silly.

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10-17-2011, 08:02 AM
  #52
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If the players do get a 1 time buyout this CBA what are the odds they buy out Gomez and re-sign him at league minimum just to get the cap down? Or can they even?

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Old
10-17-2011, 08:10 AM
  #53
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
First off I want to state I am not here to troll and honest to god I am truly curious about this. What was the reaction to the Gomez for McDonagh trade at the time? I have always been huge Rangers fan but it was only recently I started following the rest of the league. Looking at it now it obviously looks like a one sided trade, but for Montreal fans did it look that way at the time. Thanks in advance for you answers.
I was kinda like "Seriously?" Higgins AND McDo? I know Valentenko was in there as well but Gomez even at that time was regarded as having negative value, yet we gave a pretty decent package for him.

I was OK with trading Higgins for sure, as well as Valentenko, but to trade a recent top 15 pick as well for an "asset" that the NYR were happy to be rid of, well Bob Gainey just lost his mind. Especially when you consider the "improvement" that Gomez is over Koivu. Bizarre summer that was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOKER 192 View Post
Guys ,your missing the big picture.The only reason this trade happened was because the NHL veto'ed the LeCavalier trade.Now imagine, if you will,your team without gomez,without Gionta (probably), with LeCavalier (bigger cap hit) without Subban,without Pleks,-1st round draft pick and I can't remember who else.I gotta think the league saved ur ass here.
So making a horrible trade saved us from making a worse trade, which makes it good.

Got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
OR...we can read a Cammy interview where he tells us himself eh

http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/nhlnew...6-86020f1346c3
Yeah...the old positive spin

It was actually

Higgins,Valentenko, Mcdo for Gomez, Cammy, Gio right?

Sounds better that way doesnt it.


Last edited by overlords: 10-17-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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Old
10-17-2011, 08:40 AM
  #54
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How can you say Boustan's was not a factor? I seen Kostitsyn eat 5 shwarmas in one sitting.

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10-17-2011, 09:00 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
OR...we can read a Cammy interview where he tells us himself eh

http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/nhlnew...6-86020f1346c3
lol @ You.

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Old
10-17-2011, 09:19 AM
  #56
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If I had a chance to redo the trade right now of 3 years ago, McDonagh for Gomez, I pull the trigger. I believe Gomez was important to the development of Price, PK and Patches.

We lacked his type of leadership for a long time. Its also why I don't mind having the anchor Gill on defence this year over Hamrlik. Sometimes there are more important things than play on the ice.

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Old
10-17-2011, 09:37 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
First off I want to state I am not here to troll and honest to god I am truly curious about this. What was the reaction to the Gomez for McDonagh trade at the time? I have always been huge Rangers fan but it was only recently I started following the rest of the league. Looking at it now it obviously looks like a one sided trade, but for Montreal fans did it look that way at the time. Thanks in advance for you answers.
I can remember how mad I was for days after this trade was announced. Now, I dont get mad like that anymore. Realized there is nothing I can do about it. Just grin and bare it!

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Old
10-17-2011, 09:55 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
If I had a chance to redo the trade right now of 3 years ago, McDonagh for Gomez, I pull the trigger. I believe Gomez was important to the development of Price, PK and Patches.

We lacked his type of leadership for a long time. Its also why I don't mind having the anchor Gill on defence this year over HamrlMik. Sometimes there are more mimportant things than play on the ice.
Dont necessarily agree on the second part, but I'd redo the trade as well. At the time, he was the only available guy we could get. That's it. Yeah he's overpaid, yeah he's not that good, but 3 years later, without him we would have.... DD at second line???

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Old
10-17-2011, 10:39 AM
  #59
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It's not crap.

He DID help us land Cammy and especially Gio.
He gave us 2 top centers(at the time) that players coming in, knew would get them the puck with at least some consistency. More importantly, it gave us twice as many top centers as the team we were directly competing against for their services, namely the Laughs.

Call it crap all you want but it WAS a factor. I liked McD as well for the future but certainly not over either one of or even both of Cammy and Gio.

We knew going forward that Gomez wasn't going to live up to his salary but he did a pretty good job in year 1 with 59 points. It's just a shame his 38 points last season was so bad.
If he gets back up to around 50 points or more and then we buy him out in the summer, I can live with that, all things considered.
It's not like we had any other playmaking centers knocking on the door 2 years ago. That didn't even happen until late last season with Desharnais and Eller finally looking like possibilities soon.

We can argue over just how much of a factor Gomez was in getting Cammy and Gio all you want but arguing that he wasn't a factor at all is simply not an option.
Who cares?

Getting Gionta wasn't going to help us do anything except get 8th place anyway... You're talking like Gomez helped us land a superstar... he didn't. As for Cammy, he was going to the highest bidder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Hard to believe you're looking at this objectively if you honestly believe that? There is no way Higgins is a better hockey player than Gomez, zero. I think the trade was a huge blunder, but making these absurd statements takes away from any valid criticisms others may have. Hate the trade because it was a poor decision, but don't make ridiculous claims as to why, there are enough real reasons to not like this trade without adding something so silly.
At the time Higgins was coming off a bad year but before that he had shown real potential. I always liked Higgy and it's too bad that he never reached what I thought was a potential to be a 35-40 goal scorer but unfortunately that's the way it goes sometimes. We're lucky he didn't bounce back after that trade though because I think some of us would've had a stroke if he did. Gomez is definitely the better player but I really thought Higgins would've turned out to be a lot better than he did.
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
Dont necessarily agree on the second part, but I'd redo the trade as well. At the time, he was the only available guy we could get.
I really don't get this mentality at all... I don't see how you expect to build a cup winning team by going after the leftovers from other clubs and try to build your team this way. If he's the best available... that doesn't mean you should go after him. Just leave him by the side of the road where he belongs and hang onto your prospect. And if you decide you're going to trade away McD for whatever reason, then you better make sure that you're getting something a hell of a lot better than a 2nd line 7 million dollar soft center who can't score goals in return.

Factor in us giving away McD in this deal and it makes less than zero sense to have made this trade...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
If I had a chance to redo the trade right now of 3 years ago, McDonagh for Gomez, I pull the trigger. I believe Gomez was important to the development of Price, PK and Patches.
We could've got some vets for much less or we could've just held on to what we had. Koivu could've filled this role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
We lacked his type of leadership for a long time. Its also why I don't mind having the anchor Gill on defence this year over Hamrlik. Sometimes there are more important things than play on the ice.
Again though, Gomez isn't Yzerman. He's a guy who left a mini dynasty to chase the allmighty dollar and certainly wasn't worth his contract or what we paid.

Everyone said Subban needed Markov to develop... well, he developed just fine last year without him. Sure you need a veteran presence there but there are other guys (Gill as you mentioned) who are on the club for this. We didn't have to shoot ourselves in the face the way we did to get somebody to mentor Price or Maxpac.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 10-17-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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Old
10-17-2011, 10:44 AM
  #60
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We had to do something to replace Koivu. Since the trade we've had more team success in the playoffs than the Rangers. Sure Gomez didn't exactly light it up but he brings things I personally like that don't show up in the stats column. Losing McDonagh did suck though.

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:08 AM
  #61
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@ lafleurs guy

It's also about having a competitive club. We don't sign gomer, we don't go make the playoffs the last two years.

:wittycommentaboutacceptingmediocrity:

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10-17-2011, 11:12 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
Dont necessarily agree on the second part, but I'd redo the trade as well. At the time, he was the only available guy we could get. That's it. Yeah he's overpaid, yeah he's not that good, but 3 years later, without him we would have.... DD at second line???
Are you serious?

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:16 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
How can you say Boustan's was not a factor? I seen Kostitsyn eat 5 shwarmas in one sitting.
only 5???

he must have had a big breakfast

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Are you serious?
If gomer was the best option available, who did we have at depth that could have picked up second line duty?

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Old
10-17-2011, 11:43 AM
  #65
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Gainey had no choice and had to trade for Gomez because plan A failed which was trade for Lecavalier and then hopefully sign St. Louis when he was an UFA.

Plan A: Lecavalier, St. Louis and other UFA's
Plan B: Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, Spacek and Moen

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Old
10-17-2011, 01:56 PM
  #66
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Unfortunately, we needed a #1 center (sort of) because we had given away Ribeiro and Grabovski and did not drafted when it was possible, Giroux nor Bergeron, nor Getzlaf, three guys who could had been our #1 center for years.

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10-17-2011, 02:00 PM
  #67
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Without the Gomer trade, we probably would have missed the playoffs every year. He helped us lure Cammy and Gionta and form a patchwork core that has kept us competitive.

So far, excellent deal by Gainey because Gomer has shown up when it counts.

Also, great job to get JM, who has been able to build a defensive system around non-defensive players, and even made a run at the Cup. JM has been the right guy. Not sure about the future, but I'm pleased with him for the most part.

Not sure what the fans are smoking.

Reminds me of when everyone booed Brisebois, when he was playing 3 spots above his head as a #1 Dman. Not exactly his fault that Peanut ran the team into the ground and he had to take on a role far larger than his capabilities.

And Markov. Took the fans years to give him credit. Some still don't see what he brings to the team - mainly because of the job JM has done without him.

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10-17-2011, 02:03 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Without the Gomer trade, we probably would have missed the playoffs every year. He helped us lure Cammy and Gionta and form a patchwork core that has kept us competitive.

So far, excellent deal by Gainey because Gomer has shown up when it counts.
This is an urban legend !

These two guys came for the $$$ and the contract length.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This is an urban legend !

These two guys came for the $$$ and the contract length.
Most likely came here for 2 factors. Money and competitiveness. Acquiring gomez at the time could be seen as competitiveness, considering plecks was relatively unknown, and had no other center that screamed "playmaker". Believing that he came ONLY for money is also quite the "urban legend".

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10-17-2011, 02:25 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This is an urban legend !

These two guys came for the $$$ and the contract length.
Lure or not, this is the patchwork core that has kept us competitive.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:36 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by WTFpineapple View Post
and part one to that thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=656981
That thread is absolutely hilarious.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
This is an urban legend !

These two guys came for the $$$ and the contract length.
not urban legend. yes money is always a factor but competitive guys like cammaleri and gionta want to play on a team with established players, not a rebuilding team full of rookies and 4th liners.

the habs at the time had 1 or 2 top 6 players, no coach and were in a very vulnerable situation in terms of management. signing gomez offered at least SOME stability and a sign that our GM wants to build a winning team with big names and not put the organization into rebuilding mode for the next 7 years.

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Old
10-17-2011, 02:54 PM
  #73
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@ lafleurs guy

It's also about having a competitive club. We don't sign gomer, we don't go make the playoffs the last two years.

:wittycommentaboutacceptingmediocrity:
First of all... Gomez was terrible for us last year. Who's to say we don't make it without him? And we barely made the playoffs the year before that with 88 points.

We could've kept Koivu for another year and then shopped last year. Heck, we could've just kept Koivu last year too. He racked up more goals and points anyway.
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
If gomer was the best option available, who did we have at depth that could have picked up second line duty?
This is the kind of stuff that Leaf fans have said over the past decade when trying to defend their ridiculous moves. 'Jason Blake was the best guy out there... We HAD to get him!'

Right.

And there's absolutely no way we should've included McD in that trade. We should've made the Rangers pay us to take him not the other way around...
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Gainey had no choice and had to trade for Gomez because plan A failed which was trade for Lecavalier and then hopefully sign St. Louis when he was an UFA.
He had choices... it's ludicrous to say otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Without the Gomer trade, we probably would have missed the playoffs every year. He helped us lure Cammy and Gionta and form a patchwork core that has kept us competitive.
Yeah, thank God for Gomez... he led us to an 88 point finish and finished with less than 40 points last year (less than 10 goals). Not sure how you see this as being indispensable for making the playoffs...
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
So far, excellent deal by Gainey because Gomer has shown up when it counts.
Really? When? The man has managed to score 2 goals in 26 playoff games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Also, great job to get JM, who has been able to build a defensive system around non-defensive players, and even made a run at the Cup. JM has been the right guy. Not sure about the future, but I'm pleased with him for the most part.

Not sure what the fans are smoking.
Me either... anyone who'd defend this trade has definitely been sitting with the funny stuff.

I can't believe the fans are still trying to somehow rationalize this trade two years later. And as McD improves, this deal is only going to look worse. We're sitting here wondering what we're going to do with our defense and in the meantime McD is over in New York averaging 25 minutes a night in only his 2nd season.

How in the world can you guys actually sit there and try to defend this trade?

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:06 PM
  #74
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I remember being very upset when the trade happened...I was furious.

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Old
10-17-2011, 03:12 PM
  #75
Born in 1909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Basically, Gainey was looking at a first line center to replace Koivu, he apparently worked extremmely hard to get Lecavalier but it failed, Gainey had to react quickly to remain a competitive team, Im convinced Gomez wasnt his B plan either but that was probably his best option at that moment.. (the Lecavalier fail has been IMO the end of Gainey as the Habs GM) We all know now that this trade was one sided when you look at this on paper, but some will say that trade helped Gainey to attract Gomez's good friend and future captain Brian Gionta here, maybe even Cammalleri at some extend on the UFAs market.. We all know how it works.. So at the end, Gainey doesnt look to bad in that story.. Some people think its easy to be a GM, they are doing trades on their XBOX and probably think they would do a better job.. Those guys need a good reality check..
Great post.

Gomez had a decent history when he was acquired.

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